Its in a Bottle, Its Labeled ORGANIC! but its all lies....or is it...

Well I've decided to start this Thread on Bottled Organics or indeed any Organic Products that you peeps may or may not have used. been thinking about it for a while because every now and then you get some Thread or Post slating Anything Organic that hasn't been made in a bucket and made loads of mess and stinks up your house/flat...and of course lets not forgot the "Die Hard" Organic Fanatics that no matter how many times you say or whatever proof you provide will still say "Its in a Bottle so its not Organic"

When I started out Growing I wanted to be as Organic as possible(And in the Future when I have a House and Garden & Shed will make my own Teas and Composts) But for now its off the shelf products...
All my Grows so far have been with the BIOBIZZ range..of which I use Grow / Bloom / Alg-A-Mic / Heaven...Didn't get around to using the TopMax so can't say about that..but of the ones I have used for the Price I am very pleased and my Ladies seem to be happy through Veg & Flower.

I will be ordering some more BB products as the ones I have are nearly gone...lasted though! For the last couple of months I've been checking out ADVANCED NUTRIENTS and have decided to take the plunge(at least with two of their products) The ANCIENT EARTH and NIRVANA now these cost a bit more than the BB range so it will be interesting to see how/if they perform and if better or worse or just the same...I will use clones from the strains I have already been Growing ~ 00 Choco Skunk / Delicious Cotton Candy / Bomb Cherry Bomb.

I do recycle (ROLs) my Compost/Soil mix and add fresh Organic Compost and New Perlite...quite pleased with my mix of Compost/Perlite/Clay Pebbles.

I will also been hunting down any "Cheapo" Organic Products and will post where from and how much £££ they cost.

That's all for now Folks, but IF you use or have used any Bottled Organic Products or have any experience of this kind of "Organic" products then please share...I'm sure there are lots of Newbs out there that want to start out as good as they can, and be Organic as they can...but get Shot down by Purists and Die Hard Organicists...

Don't mean to diss you Die Hard Organics Guys so much, I know most Ya All mean well, but jeez...just because its in a bottle or a company made it?? Though you give Bottle users a hard time...So it seems kinda fair to be honest...

Hello cc2012, true there are a lot of nutrients out there that say they are ORGANIC and according to NOP and OMRI they are. To be considered organic the product must contain 70-99% organic material, the remaining 1-30% is usually some type of filler or enhancement. I personally have not used Advanced Nutrients or BioBizz (have been given samples for BB), but never used. I have seen a few post about Advanced Nutrients so you may want to check them out. Sorry I am not much help, I currently compost my soil. Good Luck and Happy Smoking

Subbed! Im a general organics user myself.

Cheers for replies peeps, just been looking on Net for anything Organic and came across this OLD Post >

Strider(THCtalk_02-06-08) said:

Get to ya B&Q look for the 1.2 ltr bottles of organic vegtable food and the organic tomato food, both are made by Biobizz for B&Q,

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BomShiva(THCtalk_02-06-08) said:

Really?? Whats B&Q doing with Biobizz foods? some sort of a wink and a handshake going on?

Its a long story but basicly General hydroponics (france) not the USA version spent over 6 years trying to copy bio bizz nutes, they couldent come up with anything close, so they bought bio bizz out instead, Bio Bizz was tiny really in the whole european horti scene, but now have the money and marketing of a big company that owns them.

Im sure your average hydro shop would rather ppl not know you can buy what is basicly biobizz grow and bloom from B&Q, but the fact is you can :toke:

This is why im very unsure about trying other "dutch style" organics because if a big company like General Hydro carnt come up with better and have to buy a company out to obtain the recipe, how can canna and the likes have better versions?

Its also funny that just before GH bought out biobizz, biobizz were working on a organic/minral based hydro nute called bio bizzy, then two years after they buy out biobizz out comes Bio Sevia :stoned-smilie:

Bom!

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Not sure if this Info is correct, so will take myself down to B&Q and scope the products and report back on this one...

Plant Magic OldTimers Organic Grow & Bloom has also caught my eye, so will look into the Price and any Info I can Find on these and report back



So will nip Town Tomorrow and check out B&Q and maybe Poundland / PoundWorld / Home Bargains and Family Bargains and Wilkinsons....and see what IF any Super Cheap "Organic" Products are about...

Peace

cc2012 said:

Cheers for replies peeps, just been looking on Net for anything Organic and came across this OLD Post >





Not sure if this Info is correct, so will take myself down to B&Q and scope the products and report back on this one...

Plant Magic OldTimers Organic Grow & Bloom has also caught my eye, so will look into the Price and any Info I can Find on these and report back

View attachment 3006961

So will nip Town Tomorrow and check out B&Q and maybe Poundland / PoundWorld / Home Bargains and Family Bargains and Wilkinsons....and see what IF any Super Cheap "Organic" Products are about...

Peace

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Hilarious! That stuff was clearly made with mj in mind

Well I've found another "Organic" product..goes by the name Fertiplus Concentrated 100% Bio-organic Eco Fertilizer...





Not found much Info on this...will check out the Forums and Google...below is the "Sales Pitch" might have to pick a bottle of this up...only £4.99 on FleaBay an Free PnP.



*** Product Description ***

FERTIPLUS - increases yield - from 35% up to 50%. For one overspray, you will need only 2-6 litres / HECTARE.

FERTIPLUS - from 1 litre of extract 200 litres of fertilizer might be obtained. FERTIPLUS might be used with chemical fertilizer, by decreasing its quantity up to 30%;

FERTIPLUS - restores natural micro flora resulting in up to 90% reduction of costs for fungicides, herbicides, and insecticides;

FERTIPLUS - is a concentrated product - lower costs for transportation;

FERTIPLUS - GMO FREE. It does not contain any genetically modified organisms (GMO). In manufacturing process, ONLY organic materials are used

Our bio-organic vermicompost fertilizers of the new generation are produced out of biologically clean natural raw substances, using innovative microbiological nano-technology. It is easy to use, cost 25-85% less per hectare in inputs, and provides increased yields, thus providing organic profitability and meets the growing demands of the market.

FERTIPLUS is a liquid humic extract made on the basis of biohumus. The product is the top quality, ecologically clean and suitable for fertilizing all cultures. It contains the complex of macro and micro elements, humic substances, growth and development hormones, soil antibiotics, fulvic and humic acids, fito-vitamins and useful soil microorganisms. Made of organic substances processed by earthworms Eisenia Fetida and Dendrobaena Veneta. Certified by "EkoAgros" in accordance with EC834/2007 and EC899/2008 regulations of the Council of the European Union.

SEVERAL FEATURES: FERTIPLUS increases yield, restores soil, speeds up photosynthesis, stimulates the development of roots. It also increases resistance to deceases and stresses: frost, high temperatures, lack of moisture, strengthens the germination of seeds and the immune system of a plant.
FERTIPLUS reduces the uptake of nitrates and heavy metals. USAGE FERTIPLUS extract may be successfully used as organic basis for a liquid chemical fertilizer. Used for seed immersion during overspray or watering.

FERTIPLUS is diluted with water, depending on a culture and watering system. Dilution ranges are from 1:100 to 1:1000. It goes through leaves or a root system. We are UK registered trading division Green Signature LTD. We are also a wholesale supplier. Certificates available. If you have any enquiries, please don't hesitate to contacts us and we will do our best to assist you.

Peace



EDIT: Anyone got any experience with FertiPlus.

Im not sure how you felt shot down by the organic growers on this site. Everyone I talk with is more than helpful pointing you in the right direction. True organics is much less expensive that buying bottle nutes, because it mainly based on the fact that everything you need can be found around you and is already in soil. For example, a 45# bag of alfalfa meal cost me 20$ and that will last me at least 20 years. Or calmag about 20$ vs a 5# bag of dolomitic lime is about 7$ and will last much longer. I still use some bottle nutes, mainly Neptunes harvest fish and kelp and GH vegan plant booster. If you are new to organics your best investment would be to buy and read this book, Teaming with Microbes. 14.99 and it will more than pay for itself, trust me. Im not at all against using even regular nutes, I think they are much more suitable for hydro than in soil but regardless, everything has its place and uses.

Cc2012, you said you have been running cottoncandy, whats your time to harvest been on that? Im curious, at day 58 and all almost all the hairs have changed color but hasnt receeded, or really swollen, trichs at least 50% cloudy, no amber.

I'm a noob in the plant cultivation world, but hold an MS in chemistry. There is a lot of confusion as to what "organic" means. It seems to me that most lay folks consider organic as something that naturally exists, without intervention from mankind (or very little as the case may be). In part, they would be correct, however, industry and legal beagles primarily use the chemistry definition for organic, which is roughly (though not exactly) any substance that consists of carbon plus most of the elements in the first three rows of the periodic table. Further, many of the compounds that plants need are actually inorganic complexes, referred to by many in the plant world, primarily as salts (elemental Ca & Mg for instance). While these are readily abundant from natures kitchen, they often (but not always, i.e.: Ammonia, hydrogen peroxide, and even water. Yes water is an inorganic substance.) contain some metal cation that is paired with some counter-ion from the right side of the periodic table (can also be a molecule with the correct opposite charge), the greater the difference in their ionic charge, the more available the necessary element becomes when in solution.

In summary, organic in legal and industry speak, can be man-made or naturally occurring. However, in contrast, some of the ingredients in the products that have been labeled as organic are, in fact, inorganic by definition. The confusion comes from industry allowing some deviation from the chemical definition and mixing in some of the lay definition in here and there. As with most things in our society, it's all about making bank.

Personally I use what I can afford, if I can't easily fashion it from readily available, or common household substances. This tends to rule out most of the organic labeled products. Simply because they were able to put a buzzword on the label, they think they can get away with charging more for it. Don't fall into their scheme, do some research into what is supposed to be in something and find the most affordable product that contains them, even if it lacks the word organic on the label. Additionally, read old gardening books and talk to the folks that have been around well before all the gimmicks and overpriced products flooded the market. Those are often the best "organic" methods to growing anything.

I agree. Inorganic phosphate is the best example. Sure, you can source it via bat shit, but the root system only wants to take up inorganic phosphates. At a cellular level, inorganic phosphates (Pi) plays a huge role in regulating metabolism. The more Pi in the cell, the greater amount of photosynthetic flux is used for growth rather than starch production.

"Organic phosphate" is just another way of saying "Already used" phosphate." while Inorganic phosphate means food.

Then you get to rollitup... and learn various myths about soil science!!

Saulamus said:

Further, many of the compounds that plants need are actually inorganic complexes, referred to by many in the plant world, primarily as salts (elemental Ca & Mg for instance). While these are readily abundant from natures kitchen, they often (but not always, i.e.: Ammonia, hydrogen peroxide, and even water. Yes water is an inorganic substance.) contain some metal cation that is paired with some counter-ion from the right side of the periodic table (can also be a molecule with the correct opposite charge), the greater the difference in their ionic charge, the more available the necessary element becomes when in solution.

In summary, organic in legal and industry speak, can be man-made or naturally occurring. However, in contrast, some of the ingredients in the products that have been labeled as organic are, in fact, inorganic by definition. The confusion comes from industry allowing some deviation from the chemical definition and mixing in some of the lay definition in here and there. As with most things in our society, it's all about making bank.

Personally I use what I can afford, if I can't easily fashion it from readily available, or common household substances. This tends to rule out most of the organic labeled products. Simply because they were able to put a buzzword on the label, they think they can get away with charging more for it. Don't fall into their scheme, do some research into what is supposed to be in something and find the most affordable product that contains them, even if it lacks the word organic on the label. Additionally, read old gardening books and talk to the folks that have been around well before all the gimmicks and overpriced products flooded the market. Those are often the best "organic" methods to growing anything.

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Now pay attention...

and what happens when you add the CHEMICAL COMPOUND, H2O to your supposed, organics?

Nute burn.

chuck estevez said:

and what happens when you add the CHEMICAL COMPOUND, H2O to your supposed, organics?

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It kills all the microbes and the fungi and makes your bud taste salty.

Sativied said:

It kills all the microbes and the fungi and makes your bud taste salty.

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wait a minute, something ain't right. If it makes my bud salty, why do i run mass amounts of this chemical thru my root zone at the end?

What do you flush with then?

Sativied said:

It kills all the microbes and the fungi and makes your bud taste salty.

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churchhaze said:

What do you flush with then?

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Organic molasses. The botany behind that is that feeding sugars at the end allows the plant to retain more starch which in turn balances out the salty taste from H2O and other chems. Chems are very much like microbes, just higher in the food chain, which is why you can't use chem nutes with organic.

I agree with op that organic purists can be ridiculous. Personally I see no issue with using whatever bottles you want to use, just don't be dumb and fall for marketing hype (ie having 20 different bottles of crap).

A lot of these organic bottled products are organically *derived* nutrients, but IMO, when using them you are not growing organically. The very basis of organic gardening is a reliance on microbes to break down and deliver nutrients to the plant. These bottled products are water soluble and plant available not requiring any microbial intervention.

Having said that, the plant does not give a rats ass whether its nutrients come from organic bottled products, meals, or synthetic nutrients. It's all the same

churchhaze said:

Now pay attention...

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Yay! Ligands! The aforementioned small molecules with opposing charges.