Is this a calcium deficiency?

banana_orange · Oct 31, 2021

Hi folks!

1st time grower and so far its been going good. its a small grow, one plant with the following specifications: FFOF (soil) in 2 gallon fabric pot, pH purified water (6.5) and only Seaweed Extract when watering (every 4th day). My FFOF is amended with additional perlite and nothing else. No additional nutrients have been given to the plant.

Most everything has been on point and the plant is doing good but today, my first issue has shown up. I have attached some pictures documenting it. My basic internet search says its calcium/magnesium deficiency but since this is my 1st grow, i would greatly appreciate another set of eyes.

So what do you folks think? CalMag addition necessary or something more sinister?

Thanks for checking this thread

blgdlkbandit · Oct 31, 2021

Sure looks like it... maybe combined with a bit of over watering? What light? im assuming LED... All LED lights make the plant demand calmag.. If i miss one day for calmag and throw some kelp in.. my plant gets unhappy....What type of light, and how far from the plant is it? And finally, are you using water that has been softened? I was using my tap water... ph'd correctly....But with all the additional salts from the softener it was killing my plants, I am by no means an expert...just finishing my first grow.. trying to throw out some of the stuff I learned.. Im sure someone will be along shortly who knows more.. and you never said.. This a photo or auto?

banana_orange · Oct 31, 2021

blgdlkbandit said:
Sure looks like it... maybe combined with a bit of over watering? What light? im assuming LED... All LED lights make the plant demand calmag.. If i miss one day for calmag and throw some kelp in.. my plant gets unhappy....What type of light, and how far from the plant is it? And finally, are you using water that has been softened? I was using my tap water... ph'd correctly....But with all the additional salts from the softener it was killing my plants, I am by no means an expert...just finishing my first grow.. trying to throw out some of the stuff I learned.. Im sure someone will be along shortly who knows more.. and you never said.. This a photo or auto?

Appreciate the reply BDB!

Its an LED burple light with added UV, far red and white leds to represent "true full spectrum". Its 50W which i confirmed myself with a watt-meter. Its been working quite well. I dont think its over water. In fact by the the 4th watering day, i can dig my finger 2 knuckles in and its dry, for sure.

My water is from purified water bottles (ALDI grocery store) and not tap water and certainly not soft water. I have been pH testing my water (with seaweed extract mixed) and its been steady at 6.5 (drop tests).

So, i have ordered CalMag from Amazon and it'll get here in a couple of days.

blgdlkbandit · Oct 31, 2021

If you can rule out over water, soft water or ph lockout...... and bleaching from light, then i'd bet the farm on Cal mag.....They become cal mag whores when they're on that good LED light, least that's my experience.

banana_orange · Oct 31, 2021

blgdlkbandit said:
If you can rule out over water, soft water or ph lockout...... and bleaching from light, then i'd bet the farm on Cal mag.....They become cal mag whores when they're on that good LED light, least that's my experience.

I can safely rule out three which leaves the ph Lockout as the last one standing. I eliminate that due to the following reason: I have not fed it anything other than Seaweed Extract mixed in the water the last 4 watering times. The water was pH tested every time and was 6.5.

Cal Mag it is then. It'll be here soon. Lets see what happens once i begin feeding it with CalMag. The spots have not spread everywhere.

The follow on questions that i have are:

1- how often should i feed with Calmag moving forward?
2- When should i have started to feed it Calmag originally?

I do appreciate the responses friend! so thanks a bunch for those

blgdlkbandit · Oct 31, 2021

I feed atleast with my light, se-3000 spider farmer, 300watts...atleast twice a week... if not every feeding... they really yellow without it... when shes real lush I slip some kelp in....and I am currently feeding my three week old auto flowers 1/2 strength calmag right now... weekly... and kelp.. and this is in pretty hot mix of ffof/ffhp and ff strawberry fields...with some Jobe's 4-4-4 w/myco's mixed in.....and i havent even seen a burnt tip yet...just keeping the PH in balance... and watering.. letting the soil feed the rest.....again i dont know how this differs with other lights, and setups... but I find they need it...tbh

ProPheT 216 · Oct 31, 2021

So what I have not seen any one say yet is your water ph is not the same as your soil. You are likely still locked up more than you think and aren't missing that much cal. You should do a slurry test on your soil. You should also flush till run off is clear to remove build ups. Something like herculean harvest from nectar will help soil grows. And don't forget you may have fixed the problem... those leaves ain't gonna stop dieing and getting worse

banana_orange · Oct 31, 2021

ProPheT 216 said:
So what I have not seen any one say yet is your water ph is not the same as your soil. You are likely still locked up more than you think and aren't missing that much cal.

My soil pH is off without me actively using fertilizers? I am new to all this but i speculate that pH lockout is a less likely cause. I may have agreed to that theory had I been dousing the soil with liquids nutes etc.

ProPheT 216 said:
And don't forget you may have fixed the problem... those leaves ain't gonna stop dieing and getting worse

I dont follow your last statement. Can you please explain a bit?

ProPheT 216 · Oct 31, 2021

If you added or will add or will remove or removed what ever you needed to those leaves are gonna slowly keep dieing. Watch new growth for signs of deficiency. Location on the plant usually tells the story

ProPheT 216 · Oct 31, 2021

banana_orange said:
My soil pH is off without me actively using fertilizers? I am new to all this but i speculate that pH lockout is a less likely cause. I may have agreed to that theory had I been dousing the soil with liquids nutes etc.

Do a slury test and be sure. It's about ruling things out. It's free to do if you have a ph meter and water. Salts build up from any nutrients that dry up, get left behind and even consumed. That inturn will affect ph very fast. It's why I switched to dwc. Just change res once a week and top off in-between

blgdlkbandit · Oct 31, 2021

I mean Ive never tested soil once, only h20 I put in.. have had zero problems since i've started to follow Budz K.i.s.s. method.. May I suggest the soil jedi on this forum? he has an extremely easy to use guide... to soil grows with ffof. and never tests the soil... only pHs the water. And his results.. and mine as soon as I got the hang of it.. are stellar...

Keep it simple...leave the slurry tests to the coco guys

FFOF ( Fox Farms Ocean Forest ) made Simple - Autoflower

This thread was created to help those who seem to overthink the ease of use of this highly ammended bag soil. I see many growers both new and experienced seem to post “ issues “ when trying to run this medium. I am merely showing a simple no frills method of container / bag grows for autos...

www.rollitup.org

This should have everything you need to grow 4oz per auto in soil. just adding ph'd water the first half of the grow and top dressing the rest. Literally all you have to do.. and keep cal mag on her
I get why prophet is saying what hes saying cuz we've all experienced the woes of soil.. But.. you dont need not one slurry test... if you havent been adding cal mag... and you're under an LED, its 90% chance it needs it... even mars hydro updated their instructions to their LED lights to include cal mag.

and remember he';s using organic soil.. he almost NEVER wants to have run off. And no your Ph should not be off without fertilizers... FFOF is ph'd to 6.5 from the bag...read that thread man. Trust me... from one soil grower to the next.. IT WORKS.. I mean this was my first grow indoors ever.. first LED grow...

I overwatered twice (locked out for 2 weeks), and had bad fungus gnats for over a week too... my next grow is going to be legit. I hope. This is day 70.. with 2-3 weeks to go.

banana_orange · Oct 31, 2021

blgdlkbandit said:
FFOF ( Fox Farms Ocean Forest ) made Simple - Autoflower

This thread was created to help those who seem to overthink the ease of use of this highly ammended bag soil. I see many growers both new and experienced seem to post “ issues “ when trying to run this medium. I am merely showing a simple no frills method of container / bag grows for autos...

www.rollitup.org

This should have everything you need to grow 4oz per auto in soil. just adding ph'd water the first half of the grow and top dressing the rest. Literally all you have to do.. and keep cal mag on her
I get why prophet is saying what hes saying cuz we've all experienced the woes of soil.. But.. you dont need not one slurry test... if you havent been adding cal mag... and you're under an LED, its 90% chance it needs it... even mars hydro updated their instructions to their LED lights to include cal mag.

Man! your grow looks super nice! Excellent color and solid trichomes! im jelly!

I am going to check the thread you linked. I get why prophet is suggesting the soil test and pH lockouts confirmation.

For now, I am going to keep it simple and try the calmag and check the new growth for any signs of this deficiency.

I'll post back in a couple of days with some updates; stay tuned if you're interested; i can definitely use another set of eyes.

GroBud · Oct 31, 2021

Once OF nutrients are depleted the ph can sway, he also said no nutrients have been added. 2 gallon pot no food given. That would last a month and a half or so, plant looks about that age from pics. Even that depends on how vigorously the growth has went also if they have been watering until runoff. They were also phing water to 6.5 in organic soil. Until the soil is depleted OF doesn't need phing until one starts using liquid nutrients if grown organically no worries. If a person hasn't had to check runoff ph and or ppm yet they haven't grown enough probably 1st to third grow and I would suggest they misdiagnosed a issue or two. The very first thing you should do when a issue arises is check medium conditions. The ph and ppm will tell you exactly what to do next. If soil is perfect it's environment/pests.

blgdlkbandit · Nov 1, 2021

GroBud said:
Once OF nutrients are depleted the ph can sway, he also said no nutrients have been added. 2 gallon pot no food given. That would last a month and a half or so, plant looks about that age from pics. Even that depends on how vigorously the growth has went also if they have been watering until runoff. They were also phing water to 6.5 in organic soil. Until the soil is depleted OF doesn't need phing until one starts using liquid nutrients if grown organically no worries. If a person hasn't had to check runoff ph and or ppm yet they haven't grown enough probably 1st to third grow and I would suggest they misdiagnosed a issue or two. The very first thing you should do when a issue arises is check medium conditions. The ph and ppm will tell you exactly what to do next. If soil is perfect it's environment/pests.

You think Budzbuddah is on his first thru third grow? I think he has 3 grows just in that very thread. With multiple different options.....for soil mixes and dry and wet amendments.....OP do what you want, but read the thread i posted..... look at my plants. Literally none of those grows in there.. or mine have had a slurry test. Infact.. watering to run off in an organic grow...is... from what Ive gathered from the BEST soil grows i've seen on this forum. PERIOD....just bad. And as far as pests....gnats, if not in flower, Cold pressed neem oil flush...its what got rid of mine....if in flower i'd suggest the mosquito bits...or other options... But yeah, I mean.. even with my noob over watering twice and locking myself out... and a week of gnats... Ill still get an oz or two from my plant, my first grow.,. indoors ever....with an LED light...Nothing to write home about, but i've seen people lose whole crops in organic soil, and most of them were flushing and checking slurry....as far as I can tell.. its just a big no no, But maybe you could be right and his medium is running out of steam, but... dont you agree thats prolly a cal mag issue...? being as he's running an led light and hasnt added anything? my plants demands calmag almost every watering or it looks like his.... AGAIN I AM NOT A PRO.. But these methods im relaying came from... well the best soil growers Ive seen between several forums....If it was me i'd top dress with ffof as perscribed by that thread I gave you.....keep the ph steady....start adding calmag, 1 tsp per gallon, re PH after you mix it...feed her, All i've done with my plants.. is top dressed with ffof a week into flower...then Jobe's 3-3-3 w\mycos.. 2 weeks after... nothing else but kelp/calmag since... but I am running 5 gallon pots....so thats a consideration I suppose.

this is the jobe's I use... the plants responded well to it... love the stuff can be watered in. , myco's included

GroBud · Nov 1, 2021

blgdlkbandit said:
You think Budzbuddah is on his first thru third grow? I think he has 3 grows just in that very thread. With multiple different options.....for soil mixes and dry and wet amendments.....OP do what you want, but read the thread i posted..... look at my plants. Literally none of those grows in there.. or mine have had a slurry test. Infact.. watering to run off in an organic grow...is... from what Ive gathered from the BEST soil grows i've seen on this forum. PERIOD....just bad. And as far as pests....gnats, if not in flower, Cold pressed neem oil flush...its what got rid of mine....if in flower i'd suggest the mosquito bits...or other options... But yeah, I mean.. even with my noob over watering twice and locking myself out... and a week of gnats... Ill still get an oz or two from my plant, my first grow.,. indoors ever....with an LED light...Nothing to write home about, but i've seen people lose whole crops in organic soil, and most of them were flushing and checking slurry....as far as I can tell.. its just a big no no, But maybe you could be right and his medium is running out of steam, but... dont you agree thats prolly a cal mag issue...? being as he's running an led light and hasnt added anything? my plants demands calmag almost every watering or it looks like his.... AGAIN I AM NOT A PRO.. But these methods im relaying came from... well the best soil growers Ive seen between several forums....If it was me i'd top dress with ffof as perscribed by that thread I gave you.....keep the ph steady....start adding calmag, 1 tsp per gallon, re PH after you mix it...feed her, All i've done with my plants.. is top dressed with ffof a week into flower...then Jobe's 3-3-3 w\mycos.. 2 weeks after... nothing else but kelp/calmag since... but I am running 5 gallon pots....so thats a consideration I suppose.

this is the jobe's I use... the plants responded well to it... love the stuff can be watered in. , myco's included
View attachment 5020476 View attachment 5020477

I was talking to you you're the one that said you've never tested soil

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I mean Ive never tested soil once, only h20 I put in.. have had zero problems since i've started to follow Budz K.i.s.s. method.. May I suggest the soil jedi on this forum? he has an extremely easy to use guide... to soil grows with ffof. and never tests the soil... only pHs the water. And his results.. and mine as soon as I got the hang of it.. are stellar...

Keep it simple...leave the slurry tests to the coco guys

You don't even know what you say, lol

If you are using his method and that's what you're referring to, guaranteed he had to check soil before landing on that method. I grow organically I dont check soil either. But I cant say I've never and will never check medium conditions

banana_orange · Nov 1, 2021

Interesting approach. So in the event that I have used up all of the FFOF nutrients, i suppose top dressing with FFOF or a dry amendment will be in order. The Cal-Mag would be in addition to that.

How would i go about that? Simply top off the my soil with some dry fertilizer and water with Cal-Mag? I read somewhere that the dry amendments need time to break down (i.e. time release) and wont be ready for immediate release (which the plant needs due the deficiencies atm).

Based on the suggestion, i was leaning towards the fertilizer attached in the pictures.

GroBud · Nov 1, 2021

banana_orange said:
Interesting approach. So in the event that I have used up all of the FFOF nutrients, i suppose top dressing with FFOF or a dry amendment will be in order. The Cal-Mag would be in addition to that.

How would i go about that? Simply top off the my soil with some dry fertilizer and water with Cal-Mag? I read somewhere that the dry amendments need time to break down (i.e. time release) and wont be ready for immediate release (which the plant needs due the deficiencies atm).

Based on the suggestion, i was leaning towards the fertilizer attached in the pictures.

I really dont care for fox farm dry amendments. Personally I prefer 444 all purpose for veg and 394 flower girl for flower, among others. I wouldnt recommend using liquid nutrients with dry amendments, easier to nutrient burn them.

As I mentioned gypsum, for calcium. If attended to shortly even tho it does take time to break down the deficiency wont wreck your plant within that time frame. Unless the issue is progressed by the time its treated. You can also brew a worm casting tea, and water dry amendments in with that. Powder gypsum may be water soluble, I've never used it

banana_orange · Nov 1, 2021

GroBud said:
I really dont care for fox farm dry amendments. Personally I prefer 444 all purpose for veg and 394 flower girl for flower, among others. I wouldnt recommend using liquid nutrients with dry amendments, easier to nutrient burn them.

Ok. So is there a recommended way to add 4-4-4 fertilizer to my grow? Just simply top dress and water or perform some other complicated way?

GroBud · Nov 1, 2021

banana_orange said:
Ok. So is there a recommended way to add 4-4-4 fertilizer to my grow? Just simply top dress and water or perform some other complicated way?

Nope that's it just top dress mix and water, if you do use ff dry amendments look for tomato and vegetable that one to me has a good nkp but it's not sold at my hydro store. I buy what I can locally from mom and pop stores

I'll leave about 4 inches of pot with no soil. When I amend I'll amend wormcastings, 444/394, gypsum,epsom salt, humic acid. Leaveing those few inches allows for easy top dressing. Also if haven't defoliation of the bottom makes it easier to fool with as well

banana_orange · Nov 1, 2021

GroBud said:
Nope that's it, if you do use ff dry amendments look for tomato and vegetable that one to me has a good nkp but it's not sold at my hydro store. I buy what I can locally from mom and pop stores

Ok thats good to hear. The one below is what i plan on using is Jobe's Organic Granules All Purpose Plant Food and its got a 4-4-4 ratio.

FML...it was supposed to be an easy grow; no frills no hassle!

Is this a calcium deficiency?

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