Is it always wrong to lie?

Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Very complicated subject, I'd love to hear your opinions

Do you believe it's always wrong to lie, under any circumstances? Why/why not?

If not, under what circumstances do you believe it is actually right to lie? How do you justify it?
 
Lying is perfectly fine when people ask me what I do for a living and I say [insert cash job here]. If I didn’t lie I would be in jail.

Lying is also fine if it’s to save someone’s feelings.

It’s when lying is done with the intent of harm, or just to get ones way, that lying becomes wrong. Basically if you feel guilty when you’re lying you are probably doing something you shouldn’t be.
 
Padawanbater2 said:
Dude, so many people lie and feel nothing at all, regardless of the outcome of their lie.
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Dude everybody lies and feel nothing at all, lies, no matter what, are very small, just as all thoughts are very small, there is nothing that is as quickly fleeting as a thought, lies are thoughts, thoughts don't matter, nothing matters, but of all the things in existence thoughts are the shortest lived.
 
I would lie to a slave catcher, if I was harboring a runaway slave. This is morally justifiable, since it is an act of defensive force attempting to repel offensive force.
 
Rob Roy said:
I would lie to a slave catcher, if I was harboring a runaway slave. This is morally justifiable, since it is an act of defensive force attempting to repel offensive force.
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Even a racist could make that claim. They'd never harbor a slave, so the claim is true, omission of how they'd kill the runaway is incidental to the truth value of the statement.

That's a problem of "truth." Lying by omission is deceptive, and makes you a sophist. You have to guess their lie, but sometimes the lie isn't obvious and you'd need to interrogate them a long time until they lied. If they're lying by omission, what makes you so sure they'll come clean once confronted?

But how do we find sophists without resorting to implementing Thinkpol officers?
 
Buddha2525 said:
Even a racist could make that claim. They'd never harbor a slave, so the claim is true, omission of how they'd kill the runaway is incidental to the truth value of the statement.

That's a problem of "truth." Lying by omission is deceptive, and makes you a sophist. You have to guess their lie, but sometimes the lie isn't obvious and you'd need to interrogate them a long time until they lied. If they're lying by omission, what makes you so sure they'll come clean once confronted?

But how do we find sophists without resorting to implementing Thinkpol officers?
Click to expand...




As a general rule, lying is wrong when it is used to advance fraud or to aid in an act of aggression against another person etc. Which is why I dislike politicians / coercion based government, as any concept which denies it's inherent coercion is fraudulent from the beginning.

Except deceiving a person who is in the act of using offensive force (slave catcher, drug cop etc.) or is already committing fraud or an act of initiatory violence isn't wrong. It is proper and necessary, since it is repelling the bad. Defensive force to repel "bad" (offensive force) is a natural and rightful thing to do.

We find sophists by exposing them when we know they are lying and communicating their actions to others and by shunning them until they either change their ways or suffer the consequences of their actions. Sometimes, if necessary, we help them suffer the consequences.

"be excellent to each other" - Bill and Ted
 
Lying has its uses. For instance, telling the wife or date of a friend, "you look lovely this evening" when she's very ugly and wearing something you wouldn't want your wife caught dead in.

It also has practical uses such as telling someone badly injured in a wreck that they're doing OK and are going to be fine. No sense telling them they're fucked and will be dead in a matter of seconds.

But when it comes to simple factual questions such as:
  • Did you do this?
  • Will you be there?
  • Can you help me?
There is never an instance in which you should lie.
 
white lies and black lies.


"no i didn't fuck your chick" black lie


"wow you look stunning tonight hun!" white lie
 
Padawanbater2 said:
Very complicated subject, I'd love to hear your opinions

Do you believe it's always wrong to lie, under any circumstances? Why/why not?

If not, under what circumstances do you believe it is actually right to lie? How do you justify it?
Click to expand...

This is a deeper question than you might realise and it leads into a complex rabbit warren that connects up to other concepts of sex and spirituality. In order to answer your question in a manner suitable to the sex, philosophy and spirituality, sub forum, you would have to be willing to participate in a complex and highly analytical conversation. I say complex but I do not mean difficult. Let me know if you'd like to proceed.
 
yummy fur said:
This is a deeper question than you might realise and it leads into a complex rabbit warren that connects up to other concepts of sex and spirituality. In order to answer your question in a manner suitable to the sex, philosophy and spirituality, sub forum, you would have to be willing to participate in a complex and highly analytical conversation. I say complex but I do not mean difficult. Let me know if you'd like to proceed.
Click to expand...
Just tell us the sex part
 
It sounds like you're touching on deontological ethics.

I don't think there are many, if any, actions that are always wrong in all situations.

As a general rule murder is bad, but what if there was somehow a situation where the only way to stop a genocide was VIA murder? You can't completely base ethics on utilitarianism or deontological ethics in all situations, IMO.

I would lie if I was harboring Jews in WWII and Nazi's came to my door asking if I'd seen any Jews for example. If I knew the nuclear launch codes and was being held by a terrorist, I'd lie about having them. It's easy to find common sense violations of strict ethical systems. *shrug*
 
what it comes down to to me, is why are you lying? are you lying to protect someone from something they don't deserve? then i have no problem with it. if you're lying to get out of doing something you don't want to do...wrong.
no reason to make it complicated. most things in life can be reduced to a few simple questions....does this feel wrong? then it probably is....why am i lying? if you can't answer yourself honestly...well, then you have bigger problems to deal with....
telling the truth is generally a better choice than lying, and it's a lot easier to remember...but there are situations where it's a better moral choice to lie to someone....it's up to you to make the decision
 
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