Increasing the THC and CBD levels with Mn and Ir - REALLY?

Discussion in 'Advanced Marijuana Cultivation' started by Dr. Who, May 1, 2017.

  1.  
    Dr. Who

    Dr. Who Well-Known Member

    Metals and organic compounds in the biosynthesis of cannabinoids: a chemometric approach to the analysis of cannabis sativa samples

    I heard about this paper a few years back. I never bothered pay up for the whole paper. I just read a copy from a friend.

    It's rather interesting. It's Serbian. The paper's point and goal are covering the ability to use gas chrome testing to place a plant's growing area by correlating the cannabinoid content and the levels of them to the mineral/micro content of the soil they grew in. *I'll give you a copy of the proper abstract later. - If it causes need for the whole paper. Your going to have to pay for it on your own - sorry.*

    This paper begins by studying the minerals and what cannabinoid they influence. To make a long story short here. They found that CBN, D8 and D9 THC levels are effected by Mn (Manganese) and CBD to be influenced by Ir (Iron).

    The more that was present in the soil, by area's that the C. Sativa samples came from. The higher the respective cannabinoid level! This is an interesting find. I began looking into Mn and it's use and supplementation in soil. It seems that for the most part. It is done to cover low levels for woody plants and tree's and bean/grain grops. Arborists and Orchard growers use it. I remember it being used in the greenhouse on ficus....Our farm soils test ok for it so I've never had to broadcast it on any of my fields.
    I looked into the amounts they used to get the results they needed. I looked into defs and tox levels and the reactions of the plant to each.

    http://nmsp.cals.cornell.edu/publications/factsheets/factsheet49.pdf

    I think I have found or figured a safe soil supplementing amount per cubic feet of soil. I am just about to start testing these idea's on some plants in the next round of seed popping.

    To attempt any of this, it was needed to figure the form of Mn to be used - Mn sulfate (MnSO4) is the best solution and is used as the MN source of choice in all but a very few gardening use's.

    https://www.amazon.com/Manganese-Fe...=1493643481&sr=1-2&keywords=manganese+sulfate

    It would be best to blend this into your soils at build time. Best to add it to the watering of the soil at cooking time.....The rate looks to be 1/4 tsp per cubic foot of soil as being the middle of the road. Don't go by the rates that Palms require! That is too high for our use!

    Be aware that you do this only once a year! So re-use is good for a 12 month of use - same time you add your minerals to re-used soils.

    I have built my soil for this test already and am just waiting for my seed pop rotation. This has been added to my base soil and to all the others up the line, so the plant sits in the boosted soil all it's life.

    This will also be done with base soil and synthetic feeding...

    You should keep in mind that Mn and Ir react in plants as one becomes toxic - the other reduces and becomes a def. Proper availability ratio for Mn/Ir is generally considered as 1:2.....Something to keep in mind.

    The use of a high organic Ir well water at the soil build will supply enough Ir to cover that aspect if you choose to increase CBD amounts.

    It is in all the info I've found that the more organic matter in your soil - the less it uptakes! This alone should be important to organic growers!

    Abstract of the paper:

    http://www.fip.org/?page=abstracts&action=generatePdf&item=9875

    Information on MN. I strongly suggest you read these.

    http://www.pthorticulture.com/en/training-center/role-of-manganese-in-plant-culture/
    http://www.cropnutrition.com/manganese-in-crop-production
    http://plantprobs.net/plant/nutrientImbalances/manganese.html

    I wonder if some of these uber high THC percentages we have been seeing lately. Are due to a higher Mn Soil content.

    Going to have to side by side with non-supplemented soil and test for differences......Wondering if this may work.....I think it's worth the try as MnSO4 is cheap.....

    Give it a shot and see what you think...
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2017
  2.  
    cindysid

    cindysid Well-Known Member

    Very interesting reading! I will be adding it to my soil and watching your progress.
     
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  3.  
    MichiganMedGrower

    MichiganMedGrower Well-Known Member

    I have read an article on this and when plants were foliar sprayed with the ionic manganese the trichomes increased considerably.

    And as an added benefit treated plants with ionic minerals had much better developed roots and stronger more vigorous growth than untreated plants.

    I am guessing that the ionic spray does not interfere with uptake like if there was too much manganese in the soil. Which would end up in a deficient plant instead perhaps.

    The article said that using water soluble ocean water derived liquid minerals works best.
     
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  4.  
    Sureshot2

    Sureshot2 Well-Known Member

    This is pretty interesting. Do you remember the name of the article or know what concentrations of ionic manganese they were spraying?
     
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  5.  
    MichiganMedGrower

    MichiganMedGrower Well-Known Member

    Had to go find this magazine in an old stack.

    August/ September 2016 hydrolife I got in a Grow store or dispensary.

    It says for more check out the Wide World of Weed on YouTube.

    I deal with this by using amended potting soil through veg and a hydro organic 1 part nute with seaweed in it. Not scientific but offers plenty of micro nutrients.

    I have not looked into ionic micros yet. But it sure sounds like seaweed extract already would get you there maybe?

    Pics of the mag and article.

    IMG_5768.JPG IMG_5769.JPG IMG_5770.JPG
     
  6.  
    Dr. Who

    Dr. Who Well-Known Member

  7.  
    MichiganMedGrower

    MichiganMedGrower Well-Known Member

    Yup. I did read the article in a hydro store mag. Lol

    But the research from 2014 still stands.

    I wonder if the iron content in my well water has increased my cbd content and helped with Mrs. MMG' illness.
     
  8.  
    Dr. Who

    Dr. Who Well-Known Member

    I always called a few products "snake oil" - Superthrive tops that list.....For $25 bucks - I got a new set of plants to add to the "testing" eh?

    The soaking seeds thing, looks awful snake oily! I might have to change a strain for it's ease of germination to do that too....More side by side notes! I haven't done much in the way of experiments for a few years - This has me kind of excited!

    MED, on the Ir in your water thing.
    I would say that depends on the type of Iron in the well water.....Organic (the most common type) is easier for the soil to breakdown...I run Boron and Greensand Iron removing tanks that are in line before my home softener and my RO units......That's how you really remove organic IR effectively.

    I would suspect so - to some point!
     
  9.  
    DaveInCave

    DaveInCave Well-Known Member

    By the way, as a former researcher I still have free access to many academic papers, if anyone needs a copy of a paper and can't pay their extortionate prices send me a PM with a DOI and I'll get it for you.

    Like most researchers in the world I have a burning hate to traditional science publishers (i.e. anything but PLOS), and their outdated business model.
     
  10.  
    BarnBuster

    BarnBuster Virtually Unknown Member

    ^^ ++ plus rep
     
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  11.  
    Xcoregamerskillz

    Xcoregamerskillz Well-Known Member

    This is awesome @Dr. Who. Could you do me a favor though and call Iron Fe and not Ir. Ir is Irridium, and I doubt people really want to add that to their soil.
     
  12.  
    Dr. Who

    Dr. Who Well-Known Member

    Damn it, dsylxeai is a bicth..:cuss:....I knew that.:dunce:...really....:oops:

    :hug:
     
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  13.  
    MichiganMedGrower

    MichiganMedGrower Well-Known Member

    You reversed Fe and saw Ir?

    Lol. :-)
     
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  14.  
    Dr. Who

    Dr. Who Well-Known Member

    I brain farted on the abrv. Done that before here too....same thing......mind says xyz - fingers type abc.
    Ever notice how many times I edit some of these posts = That's me fixing dyslexic typing...:wall:
     
  15.  
    Dr. Who

    Dr. Who Well-Known Member

    I get so frustrated sometimes.....I caught myself with the Ir thing some years back......To much of a hurry all the time...Not paying attention properly
     
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  16.  
    hillbill

    hillbill Well-Known Member

    Dyslexia is a bit more than reversing letters, danm it!
     
  17.  
    MichiganMedGrower

    MichiganMedGrower Well-Known Member

    I know that. I thought the smiley would impart the humor. Mrs. MMG is dyslexic even.

    Sorry if I offended hillbill. I seriously from my heart meant no I'll thoughts.

    Sorry @Dr. Who too. :-(
     
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  18.  
    hillbill

    hillbill Well-Known Member

    Really thought the thread was about infrared spectrum with the IR. Not offended but it is very real. All is cool!
     
  19.  
    macsnax

    macsnax Well-Known Member

    My wife has a touch of dyslexia, sometimes I say shit to her ass backwards so she can understand.
     
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  20.  
    hillbill

    hillbill Well-Known Member

    Full bleed dyslexic here. Some strains are not helpful but then it just makes me grin a little.
     
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