I’m probably a jerk for asking...

Drumfounded

Drumfounded

Well-Known Member
Hey guys, looking for some direction here. The wife and I recently bought a new house and I figured it would be the perfect time to re-vamp the grow since I’ve been doing the same thing for years. That being said, I started going down the LED rabbit hole and I am simply overwhelmed. I’m feeling like a bit of an idiot for not keeping up with the times and feeling so lost when it comes to all the lingo and technology.

Ideally, I plan to build my own. I’ve seen some awesome builds accompanied by a ton of great looking info, but I’m too ignorant to know what’s quality and what’s not.

I’m probably a jerk for asking, but my head is spinning from browsing all these threads. I was hoping somebody could recommend a couple threads or articles that would explain the basics — or better yet, a comprehensive build of a light that’s better than what could be bought off the shelf for the same cost. My biggest fear is that I’ll be building something for the sake of DIY and not for the sake of getting better quality and efficiency than if I bought an assembled unit.

For what it’s worth, I have a 5x5 veg room and a 5x10 flowering room. Currently running 400w MH in veg and 2000w HPS in flowering. I’m not expecting to same growth rates or yield, I am mostly looking to lower my power consumption and boost the quality of the flowers I’m producing.

Thanks in advance for any direction or advice!
 
ilovereggae

ilovereggae

Well-Known Member
HLG without a doubt is your DIY solution

Here's a massive thread with everything you could want to know

DIY with Quantum Boards

Starting a new thread for DIY build with Quantum Boards. Please feel free to post your Mid-Power LED based designs here. Multiple LED Strips fine too. Related Threads https://www.rollitup.org/t/quantum-boards-grow.927065/ https://www.rollitup.org/t/pre-drilled-heatsink-for-boards.925811/...
www.rollitup.org
 
Airwalker16

Airwalker16

Well-Known Member
Drumfounded said:
Hey guys, looking for some direction here. The wife and I recently bought a new house and I figured it would be the perfect time to re-vamp the grow since I’ve been doing the same thing for years. That being said, I started going down the LED rabbit hole and I am simply overwhelmed. I’m feeling like a bit of an idiot for not keeping up with the times and feeling so lost when it comes to all the lingo and technology.

Ideally, I plan to build my own. I’ve seen some awesome builds accompanied by a ton of great looking info, but I’m too ignorant to know what’s quality and what’s not.

I’m probably a jerk for asking, but my head is spinning from browsing all these threads. I was hoping somebody could recommend a couple threads or articles that would explain the basics — or better yet, a comprehensive build of a light that’s better than what could be bought off the shelf for the same cost. My biggest fear is that I’ll be building something for the sake of DIY and not for the sake of getting better quality and efficiency than if I bought an assembled unit.

For what it’s worth, I have a 5x5 veg room and a 5x10 flowering room. Currently running 400w MH in veg and 2000w HPS in flowering. I’m not expecting to same growth rates or yield, I am mostly looking to lower my power consumption and boost the quality of the flowers I’m producing.

Thanks in advance for any direction or advice!
Click to expand...
What's your budget like? That's a decent amount of space to cover.
 
Drumfounded

Drumfounded

Well-Known Member
Airwalker16 said:
What's your budget like? That's a decent amount of space to cover.
Click to expand...
My budget technically doesn’t exist. I don’t want to spend more than I have to, but I also don’t want to replace or rebuild stuff next year because I was too cheap to do it right.

Since posting this, I’ve done quite a bit more reading up and also discovered the LedGardener site. People seem to trust his designs and it looks like they’re having plenty of success. I was thinking about building two of his F-Series designs for a 5x5.

For anyone who has experience with his builds, or who is educated enough on the components and results, any input?

Again, my biggest fear is that I’m wasting time and money. Does anyone know how his designs compare to something that I can just buy without all the extra effort?

@ ~$700 a build for ~700w, it seems like there’s huge value in building my own, but I just don’t want to be mislead by internet hype.


ilovereggae said:
HLG without a doubt is your DIY solution

Here's a massive thread with everything you could want to know

DIY with Quantum Boards

Starting a new thread for DIY build with Quantum Boards. Please feel free to post your Mid-Power LED based designs here. Multiple LED Strips fine too. Related Threads https://www.rollitup.org/t/quantum-boards-grow.927065/ https://www.rollitup.org/t/pre-drilled-heatsink-for-boards.925811/...
www.rollitup.org
Click to expand...
Thanks a lot for this response, I have been browsing that thread for the last couple days and it’s definitely been helpful. That being said, I still have a ton to learn and the majority of it is still gibberish to me. I guess I just need to buckle down and keep learning, sometimes it’s hard to accept that not everything just makes sense to me and that I really need to dig and make a conscience effort to explore and retain the things I don’t understand lol.
 
Rocket Soul

Rocket Soul

Well-Known Member
I would have a look thru @WeedSexWeightsShakes posting history and check out his updates and youtube vids. He (and also the grow i build for) uses the Fotop boards, chinese made and cheep and cheerfull. They are really good for doing large cannopies, it minimises connection work since they are so big. A strip build for 50 square feet is a bit of a pain in the ass especially if its your first. So many connections to check if theres a problem.
Also they dont require heatsinks if used at less than 200w which means your fixture is more lightweight and the large size means you get good spread and can keep boards 8-12" from your cannopy which means less light lost on sides and walls. This is a problem with hlgs fixtures (except some) they need a lot of hanging height.
One problem (of sorts) though with the Fotops on low amps is that they give of very little heat which may mean extra heating during the winter or using part HID part led.

Some relevant threads:

The Chinese Quantum Board Knock Off Builds

Guys, I got 2x bare boards without everything. I want to get driver for it. I know HLG-240-48A/AB or ELG-240-48A/AB is the best choise for them but they are pricey and wanna know if there is any cheaper solutions out there. As I know they work 47-52V @ 500=2700ma. What if I get XLG-240-HA...
www.rollitup.org

Diy FOTOP grow board 280x900x2.0mm (L29.52"xW9.18")

I got these to test. Grow Board 280x900x2.0mm (L29.52"xW9.18") , 3.0/W conductivity,2OZ, 16S50P, 129.6-372W, 43.2-49.6V, 800pcs Samsung 561C s6 leds. They cost an "O" for 2 boards....... £200. Awaiting HLG 320H 48A from TME, cost a "q" ....£80 In my area I can use these as a side wall of...
www.rollitup.org

Also they are a cheap option if you use the lm561c diode (same as f-series), they are about 80$ + shipping (quite steep shipping as they are large). Dont buy the kits, just buy boards and try to keep it in batches of 6, cheaper shipping that way. Buy drivers locally and for heat sink you can wither co without (<200w) or use 1/8th " alu sheet for 250-300w.
 
Drumfounded

Drumfounded

Well-Known Member
Rocket Soul said:
I would have a look thru @WeedSexWeightsShakes posting history and check out his updates and youtube vids. He (and also the grow i build for) uses the Fotop boards, chinese made and cheep and cheerfull. They are really good for doing large cannopies, it minimises connection work since they are so big. A strip build for 50 square feet is a bit of a pain in the ass especially if its your first. So many connections to check if theres a problem.
Also they dont require heatsinks if used at less than 200w which means your fixture is more lightweight and the large size means you get good spread and can keep boards 8-12" from your cannopy which means less light lost on sides and walls. This is a problem with hlgs fixtures (except some) they need a lot of hanging height.
One problem (of sorts) though with the Fotops on low amps is that they give of very little heat which may mean extra heating during the winter or using part HID part led.

Some relevant threads:

The Chinese Quantum Board Knock Off Builds

Guys, I got 2x bare boards without everything. I want to get driver for it. I know HLG-240-48A/AB or ELG-240-48A/AB is the best choise for them but they are pricey and wanna know if there is any cheaper solutions out there. As I know they work 47-52V @ 500=2700ma. What if I get XLG-240-HA...
www.rollitup.org

Diy FOTOP grow board 280x900x2.0mm (L29.52"xW9.18")

I got these to test. Grow Board 280x900x2.0mm (L29.52"xW9.18") , 3.0/W conductivity,2OZ, 16S50P, 129.6-372W, 43.2-49.6V, 800pcs Samsung 561C s6 leds. They cost an "O" for 2 boards....... £200. Awaiting HLG 320H 48A from TME, cost a "q" ....£80 In my area I can use these as a side wall of...
www.rollitup.org

Also they are a cheap option if you use the lm561c diode (same as f-series), they are about 80$ + shipping (quite steep shipping as they are large). Dont buy the kits, just buy boards and try to keep it in batches of 6, cheaper shipping that way. Buy drivers locally and for heat sink you can wither co without (<200w) or use 1/8th " alu sheet for 250-300w.
Click to expand...
Thanks a lot for the info!

In your opinion or experience, is the light quality the same or at least close?

Money isn’t much of a factor and I’ve been a carpenter/remodeler for over 15 years with plenty of electrical experience, so I’m not really afraid of the build itself. Again, my biggest thing is getting the best quality I can, without spending unnecessarily.
 
ilovereggae

ilovereggae

Well-Known Member
Drumfounded said:
Thanks a lot for the info!

In your opinion or experience, is the light quality the same or at least close?

Money isn’t much of a factor and I’ve been a carpenter/remodeler for over 15 years with plenty of electrical experience, so I’m not really afraid of the build itself. Again, my biggest thing is getting the best quality I can, without spending unnecessarily.
Click to expand...
Definitely follow @Rocket Soul's guidance. He is the real O.G. around here and helped inspire my setup!

As far as the diodes, the current top performer is Samsung LM301B (HLG v2 + current gen China boards use these). LM561C is an older chip that is only slightly less efficient (5-10%) but due to being 'outdated' are dirt cheap right now which is what Rocket suggested for best value. For a short time HLG also had some V1 288 boards using Lumileds Luxeon 2835 HE chips for $29 each. I bought a ton of them. Currently have them running 4 boards @ 60W each per 240W driver, and getting amazing results. In all of these cases, running them at @ 1/2 their max wattage is ideal for efficiency (you get a lot more light, light penetrations thru canopy, and since they run cooler can run closer to the canopy).

if you use the EB gen 2 strips you can build for super cheap. Allows for more custom configurations. If you use angle or channel aluminum for frame can increase airflow (vs large aluminum heatsinks). Like Rocket mentioned, way more wiring involved.

With the QB's (or Fotops) the increased diode count spread over boards can give more even light across canopy. Also there are ready made heatsinks available, or you can DIY your own from aluminum (I found a local place that has great prices and cuts custom lengths of extruded heatsinks).

As well another consideration - HLG products are all made in the USA, with guaranteed 'top bin' chips and reliable customer service. Some products from China are straight HLG knockoffs with not always top binning, others are unique designs that have their own loyal following. The Chinese products seem to work great for a lot of people and definitely are less expensive. I went with HLG for all my stuff anyway for peace of mind and to support their innovation (fwiw use coupon code RIU10 for 10% off).
 
Drumfounded

Drumfounded

Well-Known Member
ilovereggae said:
Definitely follow @Rocket Soul's guidance. He is the real O.G. around here and helped inspire my setup!

As far as the diodes, the current top performer is Samsung LM301B (HLG v2 + current gen China boards use these). LM561C is an older chip that is only slightly less efficient (5-10%) but due to being 'outdated' are dirt cheap right now which is what Rocket suggested for best value. For a short time HLG also had some V1 288 boards using Lumileds Luxeon 2835 HE chips for $29 each. I bought a ton of them. Currently have them running 4 boards @ 60W each per 240W driver, and getting amazing results. In all of these cases, running them at @ 1/2 their max wattage is ideal for efficiency (you get a lot more light, light penetrations thru canopy, and since they run cooler can run closer to the canopy).

if you use the EB gen 2 strips you can build for super cheap. Allows for more custom configurations. If you use angle or channel aluminum for frame can increase airflow (vs large aluminum heatsinks). Like Rocket mentioned, way more wiring involved.

With the QB's (or Fotops) the increased diode count spread over boards can give more even light across canopy. Also there are ready made heatsinks available, or you can DIY your own from aluminum (I found a local place that has great prices and cuts custom lengths of extruded heatsinks).

As well another consideration - HLG products are all made in the USA, with guaranteed 'top bin' chips and reliable customer service. Some products from China are straight HLG knockoffs with not always top binning, others are unique designs that have their own loyal following. The Chinese products seem to work great for a lot of people and definitely are less expensive. I went with HLG for all my stuff anyway for peace of mind and to support their innovation (fwiw use coupon code RIU10 for 10% off).
Click to expand...
Great info man, much appreciated. I will definitely be reading up on that thread once I get home tonight!

Just to touch base on running them at approx 50% — is this done through the build itself and the components that are being used or simply running them ‘dimmed’?
 
ilovereggae

ilovereggae

Well-Known Member
Drumfounded said:
Great info man, much appreciated. I will definitely be reading up on that thread once I get home tonight!

Just to touch base on running them at approx 50% — is this done through the build itself and the components that are being used or simply running them ‘dimmed’?
Click to expand...
Basically the build itself. With 4 boards on a 240W driver the max they can pull is 60W each. The drivers are most efficient when run as close to their max wattage as possible. The boards however are more efficient when running at the lowest wattage possible (the cooler the diodes stay, the more light they emit is the basic rule). I am running my current 2 fixtures like this in series, but you could also do parallel (the one I am building now will be). Benefit of running them at lower wattage in a parallel build is even if one board died and I had thermal runaway the other 3 boards would still be running at lower than their overall max, whereas if you had multiple boards running at max wattage and one died, the others could get more wattage than they are rated for, if that makes sense.

Also, I do have dimmers attached - I am using B type drivers with external pots, but thats just so i dont blind myself when tending the ladies.
 
B

B|uDreamer

Well-Known Member
Drumfounded said:
Great info man, much appreciated. I will definitely be reading up on that thread once I get home tonight!

Just to touch base on running them at approx 50% — is this done through the build itself and the components that are being used or simply running them ‘dimmed’?
Click to expand...
Running at 50% percent usually refers to dimming the fixture after it is built. That being said, most builds are designed such that, even when run at 100%, the diodes are not actually being driven to their max current for efficiency gains.
 
sarahJane211

sarahJane211

Well-Known Member
Drumfounded said:
Wow, thats looking really nice! Thanks for the recommendation. What size is your tent?

I take it since you’ve only had them since Feb, you haven’t flowered with them yet? Do you plan to?
Click to expand...
My tent is a MarsHydro 2' x 4'
I've got an Amnesia photo 2 weeks into flower and I think it's looking OK.
 

Attachments

PadawanWarrior

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
ilovereggae said:
Definitely follow @Rocket Soul's guidance. He is the real O.G. around here and helped inspire my setup!

As far as the diodes, the current top performer is Samsung LM301B (HLG v2 + current gen China boards use these). LM561C is an older chip that is only slightly less efficient (5-10%) but due to being 'outdated' are dirt cheap right now which is what Rocket suggested for best value. For a short time HLG also had some V1 288 boards using Lumileds Luxeon 2835 HE chips for $29 each. I bought a ton of them. Currently have them running 4 boards @ 60W each per 240W driver, and getting amazing results. In all of these cases, running them at @ 1/2 their max wattage is ideal for efficiency (you get a lot more light, light penetrations thru canopy, and since they run cooler can run closer to the canopy).

if you use the EB gen 2 strips you can build for super cheap. Allows for more custom configurations. If you use angle or channel aluminum for frame can increase airflow (vs large aluminum heatsinks). Like Rocket mentioned, way more wiring involved.

With the QB's (or Fotops) the increased diode count spread over boards can give more even light across canopy. Also there are ready made heatsinks available, or you can DIY your own from aluminum (I found a local place that has great prices and cuts custom lengths of extruded heatsinks).

As well another consideration - HLG products are all made in the USA, with guaranteed 'top bin' chips and reliable customer service. Some products from China are straight HLG knockoffs with not always top binning, others are unique designs that have their own loyal following. The Chinese products seem to work great for a lot of people and definitely are less expensive. I went with HLG for all my stuff anyway for peace of mind and to support their innovation (fwiw use coupon code RIU10 for 10% off).
Click to expand...
Ya, I stocked up on the V1's before they got sold out. That was a crazy good deal, and I couldn't help myself. I used RIU10 also.
 
Rocket Soul

Rocket Soul

Well-Known Member
Drumfounded said:
Thanks a lot for the info!

In your opinion or experience, is the light quality the same or at least close?

Money isn’t much of a factor and I’ve been a carpenter/remodeler for over 15 years with plenty of electrical experience, so I’m not really afraid of the build itself. Again, my biggest thing is getting the best quality I can, without spending unnecessarily.
Click to expand...
Drumfounded said:
Thanks a lot for the info!

In your opinion or experience, is the light quality the same or at least close?

Money isn’t much of a factor and I’ve been a carpenter/remodeler for over 15 years with plenty of electrical experience, so I’m not really afraid of the build itself. Again, my biggest thing is getting the best quality I can, without spending unnecessarily.
Click to expand...
If money is no object then id probably check out @grow lights Australia high light boards, they seem to be on the top of the flower game. Very nice spectrum with lots of red and uv.
 
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