I NEED HELP!!! Potassium Def???

JonnyBtreed · Jan 30, 2009

Ok, so here's my plant at a little over four weeks flowering. I've been having some trouble keeping the pH down under 6.0 Every time I look it's back up at around 6.7-7.3 . I used to check it everyday but my plant was showing signs of pH fluctuation, so I started doing it every other day. But then I started having this high pH problem. My temp in there is from 76-81 but never over that. I have a fan blowing up from the floor, an oscillating fan, and a 273cfm squirrelcage exhausting the room. I have a 1000w hps at 31 inches over the canopy, by using the hand test, I could keep my hand there all day. I use GH flora series nutes, as well as 10ml per gal. of cal-mag. My plant has been having this problem off and on since it was in my starter DWC. I'm assuming it's either pH fluctuation, nutritional lockout causing the pH deficiency or (crossing fingers) not a mold or fungal problem.

My leaves started doing this up from the bottom. which is why I was afraid of mold, because my waterfarm sprays water onto the bottom of the leaves when it splashes over the hydroton. it starts by the leaf turning a lighter green, then brown spots appear randomly on the leaf as opposed to starting on the edges in or from the stem out. It just have necrotic spots the form all over. Followed by the spots drying up, getting crispy, then contorting. Any help would be GREATLY GREATLY Appreciated and followed by as much rep as I could possibly give... Thanks. Also I included as many pictures as I possibly could.

chucktownskunk · Jan 30, 2009

you need to clean the ring for salt and use some clear x then if your adding ph up or down a lot you will build up selenium in the water and have a lockout drill a hole and add an air stone in the bottom

chucktownskunk · Jan 30, 2009

you have the pump running 24/7

JonnyBtreed · Jan 30, 2009

Yeah, I clean the ring once a week with hot water and get all the salt residue out. I transfer the plant to a five gallon bucket filled with pHed water and clearex when I clean the res. I leave it in there for an hour each res change to flush the hydroton and the tube. I do have an airstone in there and have since the beginning. And yes I do have the pump on 24/7 think I should kick it back to 12/12 with the lights on?

JonnyBtreed · Jan 30, 2009

with everything added I have a ppm of around 1000, after a day it kicks back down to 800... So it's def eating and I'm thinking lockout isn't really a problem unless it's potassium specific for some reason.

HomeGrownHairy · Jan 30, 2009

JonnyBtreed said:
Ok, so here's my plant at a little over four weeks flowering. I've been having some trouble keeping the pH down under 6.0 Every time I look it's back up at around 6.7-7.3 . I used to check it everyday but my plant was showing signs of pH fluctuation, so I started doing it every other day. But then I started having this high pH problem. My temp in there is from 76-81 but never over that. I have a fan blowing up from the floor, an oscillating fan, and a 273cfm squirrelcage exhausting the room. I have a 1000w hps at 31 inches over the canopy, by using the hand test, I could keep my hand there all day. I use GH flora series nutes, as well as 10ml per gal. of cal-mag. My plant has been having this problem off and on since it was in my starter DWC. I'm assuming it's either pH fluctuation, nutritional lockout causing the pH deficiency or (crossing fingers) not a mold or fungal problem.

My leaves started doing this up from the bottom. which is why I was afraid of mold, because my waterfarm sprays water onto the bottom of the leaves when it splashes over the hydroton. it starts by the leaf turning a lighter green, then brown spots appear randomly on the leaf as opposed to starting on the edges in or from the stem out. It just have necrotic spots the form all over. Followed by the spots drying up, getting crispy, then contorting. Any help would be GREATLY GREATLY Appreciated and followed by as much rep as I could possibly give... Thanks. Also I included as many pictures as I possibly could.

Somethings going on that shouldnt be. You may have added to much pH adjuster and you have salts in your res you need to get out. I'd flush it with clearex and renute them. (drain and add new water & 1 oz. clearex/gal. Let it cycle with the plants in the res, until the ppm meter stpos climbing, then drain & refill with new nutes)

czogbe · Jan 30, 2009

JonnyBtreed said:
Ok, so here's my plant at a little over four weeks flowering. I've been having some trouble keeping the pH down under 6.0 Every time I look it's back up at around 6.7-7.3 . I used to check it everyday but my plant was showing signs of pH fluctuation, so I started doing it every other day. But then I started having this high pH problem. My temp in there is from 76-81 but never over that. I have a fan blowing up from the floor, an oscillating fan, and a 273cfm squirrelcage exhausting the room. I have a 1000w hps at 31 inches over the canopy, by using the hand test, I could keep my hand there all day. I use GH flora series nutes, as well as 10ml per gal. of cal-mag. My plant has been having this problem off and on since it was in my starter DWC. I'm assuming it's either pH fluctuation, nutritional lockout causing the pH deficiency or (crossing fingers) not a mold or fungal problem.

My leaves started doing this up from the bottom. which is why I was afraid of mold, because my waterfarm sprays water onto the bottom of the leaves when it splashes over the hydroton. it starts by the leaf turning a lighter green, then brown spots appear randomly on the leaf as opposed to starting on the edges in or from the stem out. It just have necrotic spots the form all over. Followed by the spots drying up, getting crispy, then contorting. Any help would be GREATLY GREATLY Appreciated and followed by as much rep as I could possibly give... Thanks. Also I included as many pictures as I possibly could.

Bro, I have no idea man. I'm a newbie. I had a different problem with my soil crop. My leaves were curling up and had spotting on the leaves. I simply flushed the shit out of them, like 6 times the size the pot they were in, i.e. 2 gallons pots=12 times with each plant. I also had the high ph in my water, around 7-8%, but I didn't sweat it that much. I've tried using vinegar, which helps bring it down quite a bit. I'm around 6 consistently now. My best suggestion would be to flush them and just use the best ph'd water you can get for 24 to 48 hours.
I wish you luck bro.

blueybong · Jan 30, 2009

I tried misting my plants once and my leaves burnt because I didn't have the lights high enough. Your lights are 31" over the canopy, so it probably isn't burning, but pics # 9, 10 & 11 look like mine did right after they were misted. Those spots/marks slowly started to decay, and the plant continue growing strong.

Are they drinking?

Do you water daily?

UserFriendly · Jan 30, 2009

You're over-fertilizing. Try using EC/microsiemens instead of PPMs. You should be at 1.0 EC (1,000 microsiemens) instead of 1,000 ppm.

JonnyBtreed · Jan 30, 2009

HomeGrownHairy said:
Somethings going on that shouldnt be. You may have added to much pH adjuster and you have salts in your res you need to get out. I'd flush it with clearex and renute them. (drain and add new water & 1 oz. clearex/gal. Let it cycle with the plants in the res, until the ppm meter stpos climbing, then drain & refill with new nutes)

yeah, I did that yesterday, We'll see if it helps any...

JonnyBtreed · Jan 30, 2009

UserFriendly said:
You're over-fertilizing. Try using EC/microsiemens instead of PPMs. You should be at 1.0 EC (1,000 microsiemens) instead of 1,000 ppm.

I've just been following my nutes to a tee. You think I'm overfeeding them? I know when the leaves curl down that means your over fertilizing them among other things but I don't see any other signs of over fertilization. No yellowing of the leaves or any of that... And I just got a PPM pen so it's all I got to work with for now bro... Least till I get a little more work comin my way. God, it sucks so bad. I leave for two days and Everything goes to hell. Find little seeds growing on some buds, so the plant hermied on me. And now this. I hope this gets worked out, I'm only at four weeks and from what I see everything else is almost ahead of schedule for four weeks. I just want a couple ozs outta this thing for all the hard work...

UserFriendly · Jan 30, 2009

Dude man, if you were using that much pH adjuster to have salt issues, you're pH would be way fucked. The pH fluctuation is what happens when plants take up nutes; that's normal.

blueybong · Jan 31, 2009

Jonny, as you know I'm a newbie, so I took a look in Jorge Cervantes book "Indoor Marijuana Horticulture" and here's what it says about Phosphorus (P)- mobile:

Deficiency: causes stunted growth. Leaves are smaller, bluish-green and often with blotches. Stems, leaf stems and main viens turn reddish purple starting on undersides. Reddening is not always well pronounced. Older leaf tips darken and curl downward. If severe, leaves develop large dark purplish, dead blotches that turn bronzish-purple, dry, shrivel, controt and drop off.
Deficiencies most common when: growing medium pH is above 7, pH below 5.8 with excess of Fe and Zn.
Treat deficiency: lower pH to 5.5 - 6.2. Add complete hydro fertilizer with phosphorous.
Toxic sign: take several weeks to surface, especially if excesses are buffered by stable pH. Pot loves P and many varierties tolerate high levels, but excess interferes with calcium, copper, Fe, Mg and Zn stability and uptake. P deficiencies manifest as a lack of Zn(most common), Fe, Mg, calcium and copper.
Treat toxicity: flush growing medium with mild complete fertilizer. Flush a minimum of three times the volume of water for the volume of growing medium.

I don't know if this is your problem, but at least wanted to share.

JonnyBtreed · Jan 31, 2009

thanks bluey, yeah I got the bible as well, but thanks for all that work typing

I think that might be whats going on but still what a pain in the ass.

blueybong · Jan 31, 2009

JonnyBtreed said:
thanks bluey, yeah I got the bible as well, but thanks for all that work typing I think that might be whats going on but still what a pain in the ass.

I bet it's a PITA, especially since you know your shit and being a arborist.

Good luck!!!

ps yea & I'm a two finger typist!!

Roseman · Jan 31, 2009

My two cents worth is,
1, it appears to me the bad looking leaves are mostly the larger leaves. Mid-way into Flowering, the larger leaves do start yellowing and looking rusty and die off. The leaves around the bud sites do not look nearly as bad.
2, I got this chart with my ppm meter and it says in early Blooming, you use less nutes:

PPM for Hanna Chart PPM

Seedlings, Early Sprouts 100 to 250

Early Vegging 300 to 400

Full Vegetation 450 to 700

Early Blooming 750 to 950

Full Mature Blooms 1000 to 1600

Note: EC Calculations are different

so I'd say you might be slighly over feeding them, or you are pushing them just a little bit too hard.

3, with the nutes you are using, I doubt there is any deficiency of any kind.

4, when we ride the pH roller coaster, we get some yellowign crusty dying fan leaves.

I'd do the 8 step recovery, drain and replinish thing.

We often forget that mid way through Flowering, at about 4 to 5 weeks of flowering, when the buds start to mature, the plants starts slwowly gradually dying.

5, You need to keep them as DRY as possible during FLOWERING TO PREVENT BUD-MOLD..

JonnyBtreed · Jan 31, 2009

Thanks roseman, I know the leaves start to yellow, but never in my experience have I had rusty spots like that on the leaves. I'm realy thinking its a potassium def caused by too high a pH or a potassium specific lockout. Also I think your right I was overfeeding them a bit. I'm keeping it right around 800. A couple days ago I pulled my waterfarm out and threw it in a 5 gallon bucket of water and clearex (nifty how it fits perfectly in there, make res changes nice and easy, plus allows me to give them a weekly flush). And left it in there for about a hour or so until the ppm stopped rising. then I left it in plain water overnight and fed them to 800 ppm the next day. We'll just have to see what happens I guess.

JonnyBtreed · Feb 4, 2009

Yeah, since I've been watching and adjusting the pH everyday, I haven't seen any further development of the deficiency.

JonnyBtreed · Feb 4, 2009

And all is well.... Other then the seeds :fire:

blueybong · Feb 5, 2009

JonnyBtreed said:
And all is well.... Other then the seeds

Good to hear that every thing is OK, expect for the seeds.

How are you going to proceed?

I NEED HELP!!! Potassium Def???

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