How bad does the DNC suck? This Bad

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Is not the main objective to win the House and make gains or hold seats in the Senate?
The main objective is to let the voters decide
The DCCC is not the DNC.

The DCCC is supporting candidates it chooses just like Our Revolution does. Yeah, its not a fair fight. Suck it up. The job of the candidate is to win. Excuses are for losers.
"We have the right to cheat! Suck it up!"

Good to quote

Our Revolution doesn't choose candidates outside the Democratic will of the people. They support the Democratic will of the people

Also good to know you know you can't win without cheating
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
The main objective is to let the voters decide

"We have the right to cheat! Suck it up!"

Good to quote

Our Revolution doesn't choose candidates outside the Democratic will of the people. They support the Democratic will of the people

Also good to know you know you can't win without cheating
Good.

Legal campaigns. Let the voters decide. Exactly what is going to happen. Nobody is cheating. All legal and on the up and up.

The DCCC is choosing to support candidates it thinks can win. Our Revolution has other criteria. Obviously winning is not a top priority for them.

All fine with me.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Is not the main objective to win the House and keep Democratic seats in the Senate? Would less than that result be acceptable to you?
The objective, you hopelessly benighted maroon, is for my representatives and my party to actually pass legislation that serves my interests.

The Democratic Party has shown themselves utterly incapable of that fundamental function of Democratic governance.

Since they can't, I'm not interested in supporting them. They don't deserve my vote just because they exist. That's not democracy.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Good.

Legal campaigns. Let the voters decide. Exactly what is going to happen. Nobody is cheating. All legal and on the up and up.

The DCCC is choosing to support candidates it thinks can win. Our Revolution has other criteria. Obviously winning is not a top priority for them.

All fine with me.
You are saying that the party should decide, above the voters. You further argue they know what's best. So why don't you stop pretending you're supporting voters rights to elect their own candidates
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
You are saying that the party should decide, above the voters. You further argue they know what's best. So why don't you stop pretending you're supporting voters rights to elect their own candidates
The voters are going to decide. I think that's best.
 

Justin-case

Well-Known Member
You have arrogantly assumed you know better than the Russian people.

If the world's largest bully who can't keep their word when it's written on a treaty is threatening your country, why wouldn't you want a strong leader who has promised to stand up to their aggression?

America HAS meddled in the internal affairs of Russia, to the point of splitting Ukraine from the country, installing the drunken puppet Yeltsin and much more. We've made a habit of it.

At least they know he stands for them.

You really suck at understanding any perspective but the one shoved down your throat by the American media propaganda machine.
You're not very convincing, Putin is murdering dictator that's robbed the public trust blind.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
The voters are going to decide. I think that's best.
You support party leaders like Steny Hoyer choosing to direct Democratic party funds to establishment Democratic candidates over actual progressives, even in very progressive districts

Instead, why wouldn't you support the actual democratic process and allow the voters to choose the candidates without any, or with equal interference from party leadership and Democratic organizations who claim neutrality between candidates during the Democratic primary in their own rules and bylaws?
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
You support party leaders like Steny Hoyer choosing to direct Democratic party funds to establishment Democratic candidates over actual progressives, even in very progressive districts

Instead, why wouldn't you support the actual democratic process and allow the voters to choose the candidates without any, or with equal interference from party leadership and Democratic organizations who claim neutrality between candidates during the Democratic primary in their own rules and bylaws?
why does "our revolution" interfere and pick candidates instead of letting the voters choose?
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
You support party leaders like Steny Hoyer choosing to direct Democratic party funds to establishment Democratic candidates over actual progressives, even in very progressive districts

Instead, why wouldn't you support the actual democratic process and allow the voters to choose the candidates without any, or with equal interference from party leadership and Democratic organizations who claim neutrality between candidates during the Democratic primary in their own rules and bylaws?
Hoyer and the members of the DCCC back candidates they think can win.

Political groups that back candidates have been part of our democratic process for centuries. I don't understand why this should change because Our Revolution is broke and runs bad candidates. It's up to you and the Cult of Sanders or Our Revolution or one of the other spin offs from Sanders campaign to learn how to compete and beat what you refer to as "the establishment.

Dammit, what are you expecting when you said your faction was going to primary "establishment Democrats". Those establishment Democrats are going to run against your candidates. I don't understand your position.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Hoyer and the members of the DCCC back candidates they think can win.
Based on what empirical evidence?

The DCCC and the DNC have routinely chosen to support candidates that consistently poll lower than progressive candidates. They've chosen candidates that have gone on to lose to the Republican in the general while actual progressives won by supporting a progressive platform

Hoyer and the members of the DCCC back candidates they know will be soft on issues that undermines their donors interests like campaign finance reform and universal healthcare, so those donors/industries will continue to financially support the Democratic party in the exact same way the Republican party supports the NRA. There are no instances, not even one, of the Democratic establishment endorsing a progressive candidate over an establishment friendly one. Shouldn't it be pretty easy to prove that claim wrong if it was false? That fact alone suggests your claim is wrong

Political groups that back candidates have been part of our democratic process for centuries. I don't understand why this should change because Our Revolution is broke and runs bad candidates. It's up to you and the Cult of Sanders or Our Revolution or one of the other spin offs from Sanders campaign to learn how to compete and beat what you refer to as "the establishment.
These are not "political groups", they are sitting politicians who are putting their thumb on the scale in elections and changing laws to ensure they remain in power, the consequences of which result in a weaker middle class, an inefficiently run economy, wage stagnation, massive debt, and dumber Americans. Special interests, both right and left, have bought individual members of our government in order to ensure they protect their interests. It's not about what idea is better or how many Americans support it. It's about how much money you can donate. Many American politicians are not interested in their constituents interests, they simply push a form of identity politics depending on which party they're a member of; Democrats push gender identity politics, racial identity politics, issues that are safe since they don't affect their donors interests since Democratic party donors generally support those issues. That's not to say those issues are not important, they are, it's to highlight the reason why some issues that would seem like no brainers to most Democrats get party support and others don't. Republicans push religious identity politics based on traditional conservative values, gender/sexuality identity politics, and also racial identity politics. They push the 2nd amendment while denigrating the 1st, a free and open press.

The Princeton study frequently cited shows evidence that 95% of the time, the candidate who spends more on their election wins. Elections shouldn't be decided by who spends more, they should be decided based on the votes from candidates without external interference from the party influencing the outcome.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Based on what empirical evidence?

The DCCC and the DNC have routinely chosen to support candidates that consistently poll lower than progressive candidates. They've chosen candidates that have gone on to lose to the Republican in the general while actual progressives won by supporting a progressive platform

Hoyer and the members of the DCCC back candidates they know will be soft on issues that undermines their donors interests like campaign finance reform and universal healthcare, so those donors/industries will continue to financially support the Democratic party in the exact same way the Republican party supports the NRA. There are no instances, not even one, of the Democratic establishment endorsing a progressive candidate over an establishment friendly one. Shouldn't it be pretty easy to prove that claim wrong if it was false? That fact alone suggests your claim is wrong


These are not "political groups", they are sitting politicians who are putting their thumb on the scale in elections and changing laws to ensure they remain in power, the consequences of which result in a weaker middle class, an inefficiently run economy, wage stagnation, massive debt, and dumber Americans. Special interests, both right and left, have bought individual members of our government in order to ensure they protect their interests. It's not about what idea is better or how many Americans support it. It's about how much money you can donate. Many American politicians are not interested in their constituents interests, they simply push a form of identity politics depending on which party they're a member of; Democrats push gender identity politics, racial identity politics, issues that are safe since they don't affect their donors interests since Democratic party donors generally support those issues. That's not to say those issues are not important, they are, it's to highlight the reason why some issues that would seem like no brainers to most Democrats get party support and others don't. Republicans push religious identity politics based on traditional conservative values, gender/sexuality identity politics, and also racial identity politics. They push the 2nd amendment while denigrating the 1st, a free and open press.

The Princeton study frequently cited shows evidence that 95% of the time, the candidate who spends more on their election wins. Elections shouldn't be decided by who spends more, they should be decided based on the votes from candidates without external interference from the party influencing the outcome.
In order to better understand the factual basis of your post, I formatted strike-through lines where you were simply voicing an unsubstantiated opinion. Your opinion has no value and I won't respond to those statements.

Yes, good candidates should do well with fund raising and will most often beat bad ones. Also stands to reason that a bad candidate will have trouble with fund raising. Thanks for bringing that up.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
In order to better understand the factual basis of your post, I formatted strike-through lines where you were simply voicing an unsubstantiated opinion. Your opinion has no value and I won't respond to those statements.

Yes, good candidates should do well with fund raising and will most often beat bad ones. Also stands to reason that a bad candidate will have trouble with fund raising. Thanks for bringing that up.
"They're good candidates because the DCCC chooses to support them, the DCCC chooses to support them because they believe they're good candidates"

That's circular reasoning

Kara Eastman, an actual progressive, defeated the DCCC backed candidate for the 2nd House district in conservative Nebraska

Paulette Jordan defeated establishment backed A.J. Balukoff in the Idaho Democratic primary by 30%

Progressive candidates are doing exactly what you said was impossible all across the country, even in conservative places like Nebraska and Idaho
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
"They're good candidates because the DCCC chooses to support them, the DCCC chooses to support them because they believe they're good candidates"

That's circular reasoning

Kara Eastman, an actual progressive, defeated the DCCC backed candidate for the 2nd House district in conservative Nebraska

Paulette Jordan defeated establishment backed A.J. Balukoff in the Idaho Democratic primary by 30%

Progressive candidates are doing exactly what you said was impossible all across the country, even in conservative places like Nebraska and Idaho
I never said "impossible" to win a few seats out of the hundreds being contested thus far. I am saying that at least half the candidates Our Revolution that have run were bad because they lost.

A good candidate should be able to run a competitive race and raise enough funding to be competitive. Don't you agree?

Don't get me wrong. I don't oppose so-called Progressive candidates based upon that moniker. I simply don't think they can win in less than liberal districts in November. Kara Eastman, for example. It's her job to win that seat. If she doesn't then she's a bad candidate. The district was a tossup that Bacon won in 2016. Given today's upcoming wave, it should be hers to lose.

The shit you said did not reflect what I said. What I said was a good candidate should be able to raise enough money to be competitive.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
I never said "impossible" to win a few seats out of the hundreds being contested thus far. I am saying that at least half the candidates Our Revolution that have run were bad because they lost.
I'm glad you finally came to terms with and admitted Hillary Clinton was a bad candidate
A good candidate should be able to run a competitive race and raise enough funding to be competitive. Don't you agree?
..raise enough funding from individual donors to be competitive. Yes, I would agree with that
Don't get me wrong. I don't oppose so-called Progressive candidates
You oppose progressive candidates because we support them
The shit you said did not reflect what I said. What I said was a good candidate should be able to raise enough money to be competitive.
There are progressive candidates who have raised more than their establishment counterpart, even with the backing of the Democratic establishment. So stop lying. It's not about who can raise more since actual progressives have raised more through individual contributions and you and the Democratic establishment still haven't backed them. We know why you back them; because the Democratic party establishment does and because we're against them. You're here to argue, not affect actual policy change. You've admitted as much.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
I'm glad you finally came to terms with and admitted Hillary Clinton was a bad candidate

..raise enough funding from individual donors to be competitive. Yes, I would agree with that

You oppose progressive candidates because we support them

There are progressive candidates who have raised more than their establishment counterpart, even with the backing of the Democratic establishment. So stop lying. It's not about who can raise more since actual progressives have raised more through individual contributions and you and the Democratic establishment still haven't backed them. We know why you back them; because the Democratic party establishment does and because we're against them. You're here to argue, not affect actual policy change. You've admitted as much.
You are doing better. Fewer lines contained your worthless opinions.

If the liberal idealist candidates raise more money then they certainly are doing well and have the edge. It IS about who can raise more because that's what the study was based upon. 95% of the time the candidate that spends more wins, not every time.

You have such a hard time with your memory. What I said was I come here for my entertainment and to learn.

Now then, about that Moser character in Texas. Doesn't it bother you that 86% of all her campaign spending is paid into her husband's campaign consulting business? More than $50k. That is what the DCCC said and Moser isn't denying it. If it weren't true she'd deny it, don't you think? What the DCCC said was they think she's compromised and can't win. They said they wouldn't have said anything if she hadn't had some serious flaws that will be a impediment to her come November. Also, kind of strange that she said Moser said she’d rather have her “teeth pulled without anesthesia” than live in Texas.

While I completely agree with that sentiment, I'm not trying to win an election in Texas after saying that in writing in the Washingtonian.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Keep pushing DCCC talking points while they failed and she won

Keep pretending to support progressive positions when we all know you don't

And keep losing
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Keep pushing DCCC talking points while they failed and she won

Keep pretending to support progressive positions when we all know you don't

And keep losing
Moser hasn't won the nomination yet. What she did was take second place in a preliminary poll. She and Lizzie Pannill Fletcher will face off soon for the chance to unseat the Republican candidate. I have no horse in this race. I'm just pointing out that the DCCC gave good reasons why they interfered. The DCCC hasn't backed Fletcher either. They just pointed out that Moser is compromised. Fletcher, by the way wants none of this. She just wants to conduct a solid campaign without all this national attention.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Keep pushing DCCC talking points while they failed and she won

Keep pretending to support progressive positions when we all know you don't

And keep losing
The only races where I have candidates that I support are in Oregon. We had a fabulous run in Oregon on Tuesday. Nationally, I just want Democrats to unseat Republicans in the fall. DCCC or Our Revolution or whatever it doesn't matter to me. I'm partisan to the point where I don't really care that Manchin is the Democrat if he's the best option to beat the Republican. That woman didn't have a chance although if I lived in West Virginia, I'd have voted for her.

I have no idea why you think I would lie about that.
 
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