House insurance

Every year when the house insurance renewal package comes in the mail I read all the info/fine print. And every year I never find anything directly related to growing. That changed this week. We own our house - paid the mortgage off awhile back. My wife and I are seniors, retired and both with health problems. The following statement from Wawanesa concerns me :


"Nor do we insure loss or damage arising directly or indirectly from the growing, cultivating, harvesting, processing, manufacturing, distribution or sale of any drug or narcotic or illegal susbstance, whether or not "you" have knowledge of such activity. This includes any alterations of the "premises" to facilitate such activity."


After thinking about this for a couple of days I shut down my indoor grow. Luckily we live on 20 acres in the country and have Health Canada permits which allow us to grow outside as well. At this point in our lives we cannot afford the risk of having no insurance on the house. I have checked into other insurance possibilities but here on the east coast there appear to be no alternatives. As unfair as all this is we feel it leaves us with no choice. There must be some pile of people across this country growing merrily inside.......with no insurance coverage. I have been growing (both indoors and outdoors) for 45 years plus. The struggle continues.

It's disgusting that med patients who are growing to code are going to get fucked.

A shed grow is what i would do.

This article explains why a "shed grow" does not settle the question of Wawanesa voiding all coverage on your policy.....



PUBLISHED IN: INSURANCE LAW NEWSLETTER – 09.APR.19APRIL 9, 2019
Case Summary: Marijuana grow operation was a material change of risk that entitled the insurer to void the insured’s home insurance policy after a fire
Insurance law – Homeowner’s insurance – Void policy – Material change in risk – Misrepresentation in obtaining insurance – Statutory provisions
Schellenberg v. Wawanesa Mutual Insurance Co., [2019] B.C.J. No. 221, 2019 BCSC 196, British Columbia Supreme Court, February 19, 2019, M.L. Fleming J.
The insurer voided the insureds’ homeowner policy after a fire for failure to disclose a material change of risk. The insureds did not notify their broker or insurer of a legal marijuana grow operation in an outbuilding on the property or of an upgrade to the property’s electrical system. The fire occurred in the outbuilding but was unrelated to the grow operation. The broker sent renewal documents to the insureds each year reminding of the need to provide notification of material changes of risk, including renovation and alterations to a building. Insureds denied they knew or should have known the grow operation was an insurance risk.
The court held the insurer was entitled to void the policy. The grow operation was a material change in risk. It was not necessary to determine whether statutory condition 4 (material change) requires the insurer to prove the insured knew, objectively or subjectively, that the change in risk was material to the insurer. The grow operation was a significant change, very far from an ordinary use of the property. It was not believable that the insureds did not know that the grow operation was an increased insurance risk. The insureds’ claims in negligence and breach of contract against the insurance broker were also dismissed.

I got rid of my still after reading a similar article. The still was found in the attic during the fire investigation. Even though it wasnt in use or the source of the fire, insurance co refused coverage

well you own your place so maybe time to drop the insurance...prob bad advice but would be my first thought

you pay on that shit forever and rarely if ever have a claim of any kind that they will actually accept.
I would drop them here if I could...I got flooded right after doing a 20,000 basement reno....they would not cover the escape of ground water.....
I had a wooden grade stake left under the concrete floor when my house was built ,and it eventually rotted the concrete popped up in the spring one year and water came in like gang busters....all new trim and carpet ruined drywall 4' up..ruined...etc If I had lied and said the pipes burst I would have been covered...lesson learned

You do realize we live in Canada right ?

willieboy said:

You do realize we live in Canada right ?

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Canada here as well - also work in the insurance industry, but not home insurance lines
If you are licenced to grow, and especially now that it’s legal to grow federally and provincially (except mb and qc) then it just strikes me that you would be able to ask specific coverage to be added to your policy that provides coverage or at least accommodates the ‘risk’ of an indoor grow (certainly for an additional premium...).
It’s definitely worth approaching a few insurers to ask about it, the worst case is they say no, and of course they can... but I’d bet there are insurers in Canada who are willing to underwrite that risk simply to have a competitive edge over their competition. It would probably involve an inspection re: potential electrical hazard etc. but I wouldn’t just give up.

I am in Nova Scotia. Approached a number of insurance brokers here as well as some in Ontario and BC, No takers at all. No interest. Some of them referred to court cases, some never responded at all. I think the risk of voiding your house insurance is a good enough reason to grow outdoors. I invested in a greenhouse this past summer.

willieboy said:

I am in Nova Scotia. Approached a number of insurance brokers here as well as some in Ontario and BC, No takers at all. No interest. Some of them referred to court cases, some never responded at all. I think the risk of voiding your house insurance is a good enough reason to grow outdoors. I invested in a greenhouse this past summer.

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A greenhouse will be great - really too bad about not finding an insurer that would write it, just seems unusual for the circumstances.

I'm certain my house insurance would deny coverage for any fire caused by grow equipment-these weasels can get out of paying for pretty much any reason. Why? Because, think about it...what is your recourse if they deny your claim? A lawsuit, right? How are you going to pay for it...your house just burned down so your cash is probably tied up elsewhere...They deny thousands of viable claims every day because they know that 90% of those people can't afford to sue, it's a big money business. So, if you grow in your home, use quality equipment, properly installed, and get multiple fire extinguishers-good ones, maybe one Co2 and one regular chemical (use the Co2 first, if it works there is no extra damage-the damage caused by chemical fire extinguisher powders can exceed the fire damage in some cases!!), maybe an automated system even, multiple alarms and some of those fire extinguisher balls.

Rurumo said:

I'm certain my house insurance would deny coverage for any fire caused by grow equipment-these weasels can get out of paying for pretty much any reason. Why? Because, think about it...what is your recourse if they deny your claim? A lawsuit, right? How are you going to pay for it...your house just burned down so your cash is probably tied up elsewhere...They deny thousands of viable claims every day because they know that 90% of those people can't afford to sue, it's a big money business. So, if you grow in your home, use quality equipment, properly installed, and get multiple fire extinguishers-good ones, maybe one Co2 and one regular chemical (use the Co2 first, if it works there is no extra damage-the damage caused by chemical fire extinguisher powders can exceed the fire damage in some cases!!), maybe an automated system even, multiple alarms and some of those fire extinguisher balls.

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Its not even about denying coverage if there was a fire caused by the grow, prescedent has been set in the courts that the insurer can deny coverage for any claim even if it wasn't a result of the grow because it wasn't disclosed to the insurer. The most rediculous part is if you had the same setup but were growing tomatoes there would be no issue.

willieboy said:

I am in Nova Scotia. Approached a number of insurance brokers here as well as some in Ontario and BC, No takers at all. No interest. Some of them referred to court cases, some never responded at all. I think the risk of voiding your house insurance is a good enough reason to grow outdoors. I invested in a greenhouse this past summer.

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LMG 250-748-3200?
Don't let anyone from Canopy Growth visit, they have the worst track record for burning down greenhouses!
Get a change of use permit from the City.

westcoast420 said:

Its not even about denying coverage if there was a fire caused by the grow, prescedent has been set in the courts that the insurer can deny coverage for any claim even if it wasn't a result of the grow because it wasn't disclosed to the insurer. The most rediculous part is if you had the same setup but were growing tomatoes there would be no issue.

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Exactly. Insurers can and will usually underwrite anything... for the ‘right’ premium. The non disclosure is why they deny coverage, could be any reason, but they also usually have to meet a burden of showing that their insured knowingly misrepresented the risk or ‘ought’ to have known.

The truth is that it’s not really about looking to deny the handful of claims, insurers don’t really want to spend money to litigate, but they’d rather make/encourage the majority people disclose more of their risk so that the insurers can collect an ‘adequate’ premium (aka MORE premium) from the most people possible, which can definitely be viewed as greedy. Also definitely NOT defending insurers here, please don’t get me wrong!

What they choose to underwrite can vary with how competitive the market is, usually insurers new to a market or a particular line (ie. home insurance, auto etc), will try to attract new customers by writing policies that other insurers won’t (taking a bigger risk with the hope that it translates to long term customer base and bigger market share). Literally all that would need to be done is for an insurer to add an endorsement to a policy that grants permission to grow cannabis. Let say they charge $500 per year for that endorsement/added risk, over even just 25 years that’s $12k (!!) and if they simply sent an inspector annually to check the electrical and set up and required simple security like a home alarm, the risk is so low it’s crazy.

let’s just call it what it is / it’s just discrimination based on old stereotypes, to me that exclusion isn’t based on a true measure of the level of risk being so high that it’s not writable.
Sorry for this being a literal book of a reply / congrats if you got through it

chex1111 said:

LMG 250-748-3200?
Don't let anyone from Canopy Growth visit, they have the worst track record for burning down greenhouses!
Get a change of use permit from the City.

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Whaaat? I feel like there’s a story there that I’d wanna hear lol
(I loathe Canopy - the fucking worst ‘corporate cannabis’ player in the bunch)

westcoast420 said:

Its not even about denying coverage if there was a fire caused by the grow, prescedent has been set in the courts that the insurer can deny coverage for any claim even if it wasn't a result of the grow because it wasn't disclosed to the insurer. The most rediculous part is if you had the same setup but were growing tomatoes there would be no issue.

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So u grow tomatoes too

Lesson is always grow veggies too. Lettuce and cucumbers greatest from hydro system and prove there was weed.

Kdoggy said:

Lesson is always grow veggies too. Lettuce and cucumbers greatest from hydro system and prove there was weed.

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omg, lol

lakesidegrower said:

Let say they charge $500 per year for that endorsement/added risk, over even just 25 years that’s $125K (!!)

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I think you forgot a decimal place

$ 12.5 K

Best way to avoid issues is dont daisy chain power bars. Make sure you put 20 amp wire with 20 amp breakers. And above all dont worry so much whens the last time you saw a fire started with grow op story. Its rare for house fires most of them are caused by cigarettes not grows.