spiked1
Well-Known Member
I wasn't sure so decided to cover both ways.
It didn't do any harm.
Hormones /PGR`s/Vitimans - Research Thread Only
- Thread starter eza82
- Start date
It didn't do any harm.
DaveTheNewbie
Well-Known Member
good enough for me
DaveTheNewbie
Well-Known Member
i wanna see this one !
eza82
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by tapla
From forums.Gardenweb.com
Not all are much enamored of Superthrive, and it DOES contain ingredients that WILL hurt your plants if overused. It contains synthetic auxin, the same growth regulator that was used in defoliants in Viet Nam. This question arises soo often, that I saved a synopsis of an experiment I've repeated 4 times, with some loose controls in place. You may, or may not find it interesting, but I am pretty settled with my conclusion(s).
Superthrive or Super-Jive
The question of the value of Superthrive as a miracle tonic for plants is often bandied about in horticultural circles. Several years ago, after reading claims that range from "I put it on and my plant, which had never bloomed, was in full bloom the next day" to "It was dead - I put Superthrive on it and the next day it was alive and beautiful, growing better than it ever had before", I decided to find out for myself. If you look for information on the net, you’ll find the manufacturer’s claims and anecdotal observations, totally lacking in anything that resembles anything like a control. Though my experiments were far from scientific, I tried to keep some loose controls in place so that I could make a fair judgment of its value, based my own observations. Here is what I did, what I found, and the conclusions I made about my use of Superthrive.
On four separate occasions, I took multiple cuttings from the same plant. The plant materials I used were: Ficus benjamina, (a tropical weeping fig) Luna apiculata (Peruvian myrtle), Chaenorrhinum minus (a dwarf snapdragon), and an unknown variety of Coleus. In each instance, I prepared cuttings from the same plant and inserted them in a very fast, sterile soil. Half of the cuttings were soaked in a Superthrive solution of approximately 1/2 tsp per gallon of water. The other half of the cuttings were watered in with water. In subsequent waterings, I would water the "Superthrive batch" of cuttings with a solution of 10 drops per gallon and the others with water. The same fertilizer regimen was followed on both groups of cuttings. In all four instances, the cuttings that I used Superthrive on rooted first. For this reason, it follows that they would naturally exhibit better development, though I could see no difference in vitality, once rooted. I can also say that a slightly higher percentage f cuttings rooted that were treated to the Superthrive treatment. I suspect that is directly related to the effects of the auxin in Superthrive hastening root initiation before potential vascular connections were destroyed by rot causing organisms.
In particular, something I looked for because of my affinity for compact branching in plants was branch (stem) extension. Though the cuttings treated with Superthrive rooted sooner, they exhibited the same amount of branch extension. In other words, internode length was approximately equal.
As a second part to each of my "experiments", I divided the group of cuttings that had not been treated with Superthrive into two groups. One of the groups remained on the water only program, while the other group was treated to a 10 drop per gallon solution of Superthrive. Again, the fertilizer regimen was the same for both groups. By summer’s end, I could detect no difference in bio-mass or vitality between the two groups of plants.
Since I replicated the above in four different trials, using four different plant materials, I’m confident in drawing some conclusions as they apply to me and my growing habits or abilities. First, based on my observations, I have concluded that Superthrive holds value for me as a rooting aid, or stimulant if you prefer. I regularly soak the soil, usually overnight, of my newly root-pruned and usually bare-rooted repots in a solution of 1/2 tsp Superthrive per gallon of water. Second, and also based on my observations, I don’t bother with its use at any time other than at repotting. No evidence was accumulated through the 4 trials to convince me that Superthrive was of any value as a "tonic" for plants with roots that were beyond the initiation or recovery stage.
The first ingredient listed as beneficial on the Superthrive label is vitamin B-1 (or thiamine). Growing plants are able to synthesize their own vitamin B-1 as do many of the fungi and bacteria having relationships with plant roots, so it's extremely doubtful that vitamin B-1 could be deficient in soils or that a growing plant could exhibit a vitamin B-1 deficiency.
Some will note that I used more of the product than suggested on the container. I wanted to see if any unwanted effects surfaced as well as trying to be sure there was ample opportunity for clear delineation between the groups. I suspect that if a more dilute solution was used, the difference between groups would have been less clear.
It might be worth noting that since the product contains the growth regulator (hormone) auxin, its overuse can cause defoliation, at least in dicots. The broad-leaf weed killer Weed-B-Gone and the infamous Agent Orange, a defoliant that saw widespread use in Viet Nam, are little more than synthetic auxin.
Al F.
Originally Posted by George Buehler
from www.louisvillebonsai.org
There has been a flurry of activity on the ABSForum regarding the use of SuperThrive. The original question that was posted was whether the stuff really worked and if other root stimulator products were just as good.
One response was that every time she transplanted a bonsai, she soaked the roots in a SuperThrive solution for 20 minutes prior to putting it in a pot. Of course she believes it is the best thing since sliced bread.
Another response was that plants do not need vitamins however manufacture their own vitamins. Therefore how could the SuperThrive help the tree? This respondent said that he switched to a material called Roots 2 and found that this material worked very well.
A number of respondents reported that they had used SuperThrive in the past but gave up using it. Their conclusion was that they didn't see any benefit.
It appears that SuperThrive consists of Thiamine (aka Vitamin B1) 0.09% and 1-napthyl acetic acid (0.048%). Thiamine was promoted as a root stimulant in a Botanical gazette in the 1930's. The research report could not be repeated by other researchers, and the original authors retracted their reports since they could not repeat the results either. The 1-naphtyl acetic acid is a synthetic auxin (a plant hormone). Whether it works or not is questionable.
Other respondents said they replaced the SuperThrive with other materials like MicroMax, Sequestrine or Roots 2, and they got better results.
The directions on SuperThrive say that it is to be used with fertilizers. Could perhaps the combination of SuperThrive and fertilizer cause it to work?
I know from personal contact that the Montreal bonsai arboretum did use SuperThrive but abandoned its use a number of years ago because they could not see any positive effects with its use. They replaced the SuperThrive with MicroMax after they did a short study on that.
Apparently this controversy has been going on for years. I know several of our members use it regularly, and at least one swears by it. I also know it is extremely difficult to substantiate whether a particular chemical or process works or doesn't work especially since we are limited by the number of specimens we have. Also all research (or at least all of the research I have read) has been done on plants/trees in a greenhouse or field environment, not the bonsai environment (rock soil, small pots, constant trimming, and repeated root pruning). Therefore, my questions to the membership:
Who uses it? Do you use it in combination with other chemicals? Have you tried eliminating it or substituting it for other materials? How many trees did you do your experiment on? Please let me know. I will report the results back in a future report.
From forums.Gardenweb.com
Not all are much enamored of Superthrive, and it DOES contain ingredients that WILL hurt your plants if overused. It contains synthetic auxin, the same growth regulator that was used in defoliants in Viet Nam. This question arises soo often, that I saved a synopsis of an experiment I've repeated 4 times, with some loose controls in place. You may, or may not find it interesting, but I am pretty settled with my conclusion(s).
Superthrive or Super-Jive
The question of the value of Superthrive as a miracle tonic for plants is often bandied about in horticultural circles. Several years ago, after reading claims that range from "I put it on and my plant, which had never bloomed, was in full bloom the next day" to "It was dead - I put Superthrive on it and the next day it was alive and beautiful, growing better than it ever had before", I decided to find out for myself. If you look for information on the net, you’ll find the manufacturer’s claims and anecdotal observations, totally lacking in anything that resembles anything like a control. Though my experiments were far from scientific, I tried to keep some loose controls in place so that I could make a fair judgment of its value, based my own observations. Here is what I did, what I found, and the conclusions I made about my use of Superthrive.
On four separate occasions, I took multiple cuttings from the same plant. The plant materials I used were: Ficus benjamina, (a tropical weeping fig) Luna apiculata (Peruvian myrtle), Chaenorrhinum minus (a dwarf snapdragon), and an unknown variety of Coleus. In each instance, I prepared cuttings from the same plant and inserted them in a very fast, sterile soil. Half of the cuttings were soaked in a Superthrive solution of approximately 1/2 tsp per gallon of water. The other half of the cuttings were watered in with water. In subsequent waterings, I would water the "Superthrive batch" of cuttings with a solution of 10 drops per gallon and the others with water. The same fertilizer regimen was followed on both groups of cuttings. In all four instances, the cuttings that I used Superthrive on rooted first. For this reason, it follows that they would naturally exhibit better development, though I could see no difference in vitality, once rooted. I can also say that a slightly higher percentage f cuttings rooted that were treated to the Superthrive treatment. I suspect that is directly related to the effects of the auxin in Superthrive hastening root initiation before potential vascular connections were destroyed by rot causing organisms.
In particular, something I looked for because of my affinity for compact branching in plants was branch (stem) extension. Though the cuttings treated with Superthrive rooted sooner, they exhibited the same amount of branch extension. In other words, internode length was approximately equal.
As a second part to each of my "experiments", I divided the group of cuttings that had not been treated with Superthrive into two groups. One of the groups remained on the water only program, while the other group was treated to a 10 drop per gallon solution of Superthrive. Again, the fertilizer regimen was the same for both groups. By summer’s end, I could detect no difference in bio-mass or vitality between the two groups of plants.
Since I replicated the above in four different trials, using four different plant materials, I’m confident in drawing some conclusions as they apply to me and my growing habits or abilities. First, based on my observations, I have concluded that Superthrive holds value for me as a rooting aid, or stimulant if you prefer. I regularly soak the soil, usually overnight, of my newly root-pruned and usually bare-rooted repots in a solution of 1/2 tsp Superthrive per gallon of water. Second, and also based on my observations, I don’t bother with its use at any time other than at repotting. No evidence was accumulated through the 4 trials to convince me that Superthrive was of any value as a "tonic" for plants with roots that were beyond the initiation or recovery stage.
The first ingredient listed as beneficial on the Superthrive label is vitamin B-1 (or thiamine). Growing plants are able to synthesize their own vitamin B-1 as do many of the fungi and bacteria having relationships with plant roots, so it's extremely doubtful that vitamin B-1 could be deficient in soils or that a growing plant could exhibit a vitamin B-1 deficiency.
Some will note that I used more of the product than suggested on the container. I wanted to see if any unwanted effects surfaced as well as trying to be sure there was ample opportunity for clear delineation between the groups. I suspect that if a more dilute solution was used, the difference between groups would have been less clear.
It might be worth noting that since the product contains the growth regulator (hormone) auxin, its overuse can cause defoliation, at least in dicots. The broad-leaf weed killer Weed-B-Gone and the infamous Agent Orange, a defoliant that saw widespread use in Viet Nam, are little more than synthetic auxin.
Al F.
Originally Posted by George Buehler
from www.louisvillebonsai.org
There has been a flurry of activity on the ABSForum regarding the use of SuperThrive. The original question that was posted was whether the stuff really worked and if other root stimulator products were just as good.
One response was that every time she transplanted a bonsai, she soaked the roots in a SuperThrive solution for 20 minutes prior to putting it in a pot. Of course she believes it is the best thing since sliced bread.
Another response was that plants do not need vitamins however manufacture their own vitamins. Therefore how could the SuperThrive help the tree? This respondent said that he switched to a material called Roots 2 and found that this material worked very well.
A number of respondents reported that they had used SuperThrive in the past but gave up using it. Their conclusion was that they didn't see any benefit.
It appears that SuperThrive consists of Thiamine (aka Vitamin B1) 0.09% and 1-napthyl acetic acid (0.048%). Thiamine was promoted as a root stimulant in a Botanical gazette in the 1930's. The research report could not be repeated by other researchers, and the original authors retracted their reports since they could not repeat the results either. The 1-naphtyl acetic acid is a synthetic auxin (a plant hormone). Whether it works or not is questionable.
Other respondents said they replaced the SuperThrive with other materials like MicroMax, Sequestrine or Roots 2, and they got better results.
The directions on SuperThrive say that it is to be used with fertilizers. Could perhaps the combination of SuperThrive and fertilizer cause it to work?
I know from personal contact that the Montreal bonsai arboretum did use SuperThrive but abandoned its use a number of years ago because they could not see any positive effects with its use. They replaced the SuperThrive with MicroMax after they did a short study on that.
Apparently this controversy has been going on for years. I know several of our members use it regularly, and at least one swears by it. I also know it is extremely difficult to substantiate whether a particular chemical or process works or doesn't work especially since we are limited by the number of specimens we have. Also all research (or at least all of the research I have read) has been done on plants/trees in a greenhouse or field environment, not the bonsai environment (rock soil, small pots, constant trimming, and repeated root pruning). Therefore, my questions to the membership:
Who uses it? Do you use it in combination with other chemicals? Have you tried eliminating it or substituting it for other materials? How many trees did you do your experiment on? Please let me know. I will report the results back in a future report.
eza82
Well-Known Member
My post from different thread ! - here for refference.
I use a basic mushroom compost; wheat straw, horse & chicken manure and gypsum (calcium sulfate) with hydrated lime, pot ash. organic soil, wormcastings, mixed with coco fiber....
There are a variety of optional ingredients that may be added. A brief outline of some materials used in making composts follows:
Straw:
serves as a carbon source (carbohydrate) source wheat - considered the best - contains xylan oat, barley - break down more rapidly than wheat rye - breaks down slower than wheat also corn cobs, oak and beech leaves, etc.
Other Carbohydrate Sources:
Rice straw, molasses, brewer's grains, cottonseed meal (provides the fatty acid - linoleic acid -which is reported to stimulate yields.)
Manures:
nitrogen source, provides organisms essential to composting horse - most commonly used, fresher the better poultry - higher in nitrogen and phosphorous than horse, not so rich in potash (provided in wheat straw), faster and hotter than horse, use dry pig and sheep - must be used before they become sticky - used partly dry
Other Nitrogen Sources:
Blood meal (dried blood), bone meal urea, ammonium sulfate ((NH4)2SO4) Gypsum: calcium sulfate (CaSO4) - helps to prevent the loss of nitrogen (from the breakdown of proteins during the act of composting) by chelating the ammonia
Optional Mineral Sources:
Superphosphate; is said to promote vigorous flowering growth, but an excess may make the beds too acid too soon which depreciate the crop. It should not be used if there are a lot of droppings that r fresh) in the compost.
potash; used in synthetic composts.
Activators; compost "activators" can be obtained from nursery and garden stores and assures the presence of the organism essential to composting.
The following recipes create about one half ton of compost. One half ton of compost will provide enough compost for about 60 square feet of beds (surface area). At least one quart of grain spawn per 15 square feet of bed surface should be used.
Sample MY Compost Recipes:
I do this in winter every year then additives are introduced to pile.
I have not got one at moment ....(had to move house) But have strated a new pile this week!
5 bales wheat straw,
half a pickup (half ton) horse manure,
1/2 tonne mushroom compost (used )
30 lbs. gypsum,
4 lbs. activator,
90 lbs. chicken manure,
40 lbs. Blood & bone meal
This is what I do to prep!
To prepare compost, the straw must be soaked for several days until it just about, but not quite, squeezes water out in your hands. The compost pile is then built by stacking alternating layers of straw, activator, manure and gypsum until all the materials are used up. The stack should be 4-6 feet high.
In about 48 hours the heap will begin to generate heat and will sink somewhat in height. By the fourth to sixth day the temperature in the interior of the pile should reach 160°F (71°C). Temperatures of up to 160°F are due to thermophilic organisms. Temperatures over 170°F are due to chemical bonds being broken as well as other chemical reactions. Temperatures over 160°F are undesirable.
I use a basic mushroom compost; wheat straw, horse & chicken manure and gypsum (calcium sulfate) with hydrated lime, pot ash. organic soil, wormcastings, mixed with coco fiber....
There are a variety of optional ingredients that may be added. A brief outline of some materials used in making composts follows:
Straw:
serves as a carbon source (carbohydrate) source wheat - considered the best - contains xylan oat, barley - break down more rapidly than wheat rye - breaks down slower than wheat also corn cobs, oak and beech leaves, etc.
Other Carbohydrate Sources:
Rice straw, molasses, brewer's grains, cottonseed meal (provides the fatty acid - linoleic acid -which is reported to stimulate yields.)
Manures:
nitrogen source, provides organisms essential to composting horse - most commonly used, fresher the better poultry - higher in nitrogen and phosphorous than horse, not so rich in potash (provided in wheat straw), faster and hotter than horse, use dry pig and sheep - must be used before they become sticky - used partly dry
Other Nitrogen Sources:
Blood meal (dried blood), bone meal urea, ammonium sulfate ((NH4)2SO4) Gypsum: calcium sulfate (CaSO4) - helps to prevent the loss of nitrogen (from the breakdown of proteins during the act of composting) by chelating the ammonia
Optional Mineral Sources:
Superphosphate; is said to promote vigorous flowering growth, but an excess may make the beds too acid too soon which depreciate the crop. It should not be used if there are a lot of droppings that r fresh) in the compost.
potash; used in synthetic composts.
Activators; compost "activators" can be obtained from nursery and garden stores and assures the presence of the organism essential to composting.
The following recipes create about one half ton of compost. One half ton of compost will provide enough compost for about 60 square feet of beds (surface area). At least one quart of grain spawn per 15 square feet of bed surface should be used.
Sample MY Compost Recipes:
I do this in winter every year then additives are introduced to pile.
I have not got one at moment ....(had to move house) But have strated a new pile this week!
5 bales wheat straw,
half a pickup (half ton) horse manure,
1/2 tonne mushroom compost (used )
30 lbs. gypsum,
4 lbs. activator,
90 lbs. chicken manure,
40 lbs. Blood & bone meal
This is what I do to prep!
To prepare compost, the straw must be soaked for several days until it just about, but not quite, squeezes water out in your hands. The compost pile is then built by stacking alternating layers of straw, activator, manure and gypsum until all the materials are used up. The stack should be 4-6 feet high.
In about 48 hours the heap will begin to generate heat and will sink somewhat in height. By the fourth to sixth day the temperature in the interior of the pile should reach 160°F (71°C). Temperatures of up to 160°F are due to thermophilic organisms. Temperatures over 170°F are due to chemical bonds being broken as well as other chemical reactions. Temperatures over 160°F are undesirable.
eza82
Well-Known Member
this is something i have just started to experiment with !
Rhizobium
inoculate seed before planting?
inoculated with the proper Rhizobium bacteria. (black chalky looking shit )
Inoculation is easy and inexpensive and provides good assurance that plants will fix nitrogen. EXPLANATION:
IE:seeds can be inoculated with live rhizobium bacteria (Rhizobium meliloti), . The only time producers do not need to inoculate is when planting preinoculated seed before its expiration date.
In some fields with recent histories of alfalfa or sweetclover, alfalfa may not benefit from inoculation, but it is difficult to identify those fields before planting. After emergence, inoculation is risky, difficult, and expensive.
IE:seeds can be inoculated with live rhizobium bacteria (Rhizobium meliloti), . The only time producers do not need to inoculate is when planting preinoculated seed before its expiration date.
In some fields with recent histories of alfalfa or sweetclover, alfalfa may not benefit from inoculation, but it is difficult to identify those fields before planting. After emergence, inoculation is risky, difficult, and expensive.
Many strains of rhizobia are present in soil, and some may form nodules on alfalfa roots, but not all nodules fix nitrogen. Effective N-fixing nodules on alfalfa are generally pink to deep red on the inside and can fix several hundred pounds of nitrogen per acre each season.
Specific rhizobium bacteria for alfalfa assure effective nitrogen fixation by new stands. Together they convert atmospheric nitrogen into a form available to plants if effective nodules are present. Nodules are the result of an infection by an effective strain of bacteria (Rhizobium meliloti).
Inoculating alfalfa seed: Inoculation is nothing more than mixing bacteria with the seed before planting. Dry inoculant can be mixed with seed, but it is difficult to assure good mixing and to avoid much of the inoculant from falling on the ground some distance from the seed. Certain brands of alfalfa seed are pre-inoculated (with or without lime coating) and do not need additional inoculant.
Stickers help nodule forming bacteria adhere to seed. Excellent commercial preparations of stickers and rhizobium are available from inoculant manufacturers. For best results, follow the manufacturer's instructions.
An alternative to commercial stickers is to use milk or a water-based solution containing 10 to 20 % table syrup or sugar. One pint of the sticky mixture provides sufficient sticker for a bushel of seed. Moisten all seeds (in a concrete mixer, if possible), then add the inoculant. If the mixture is too moist, add more inoculant, finely ground limestone, or powdery dry soil.
Shelf life of inoculants: Expiration dates appear on inoculant packets and pre-inoculated seed bags. The date indicates when most of the bacteria will have died under normal storage conditions. Properly inoculated seeds have thousands of bacteria per seed; however, only one bacterium is needed to infest a seedling's root. Bacteria on seed in hot soil die, a few at a time. Nevertheless, even after 2 or 3 weeks, there are usually enough live bacteria remaining to be effective.
Heat, direct sunlight, and drying are all detrimental to the survival of rhizobia. For this reason, it is important to store inoculant packets in a cool place (refrigerate if possible). Even with the large amounts of rhizobia initially applied, many bacteria may die during prolonged storage.
If there are questions about the viability of bacteria on inoculated seed due to the length of storage or storage conditions, then seed should be reinoculated. Do not use water to moisten lime-coated seed. Fresh inoculant can be applied with mineral oil as a sticker. About 1/2 ounce of mineral oil per pound of seed is sufficient.
Cost/benefit of inoculation: Inoculant is normally included with the higher priced seed. Cost for preinoculated seed is 5 to 10¢/lb more than comparable raw seed. Inoculant costs about $1/A, if applied by the producer.
All legumes (including alfalfa) can establish and survive without nitrogen-fixing bacteria, but plants cannot fix nitrogen. This means that without added nitrogen, plants will have a yellowish appearance and yields will be low. With high rates of nitrogen fertilizer application, uninoculated stands can be productive.
If nitrogen fertilizer is applied to alfalfa for normal growth and quality, 200 - 400 lb. actual N/A would be required, costing $50 - $200/A. Since inoculation is easy and cheap, it is probably the best insurance farmers can buy.
Specific rhizobium bacteria for alfalfa assure effective nitrogen fixation by new stands. Together they convert atmospheric nitrogen into a form available to plants if effective nodules are present. Nodules are the result of an infection by an effective strain of bacteria (Rhizobium meliloti).
Inoculating alfalfa seed: Inoculation is nothing more than mixing bacteria with the seed before planting. Dry inoculant can be mixed with seed, but it is difficult to assure good mixing and to avoid much of the inoculant from falling on the ground some distance from the seed. Certain brands of alfalfa seed are pre-inoculated (with or without lime coating) and do not need additional inoculant.
Stickers help nodule forming bacteria adhere to seed. Excellent commercial preparations of stickers and rhizobium are available from inoculant manufacturers. For best results, follow the manufacturer's instructions.
An alternative to commercial stickers is to use milk or a water-based solution containing 10 to 20 % table syrup or sugar. One pint of the sticky mixture provides sufficient sticker for a bushel of seed. Moisten all seeds (in a concrete mixer, if possible), then add the inoculant. If the mixture is too moist, add more inoculant, finely ground limestone, or powdery dry soil.
Shelf life of inoculants: Expiration dates appear on inoculant packets and pre-inoculated seed bags. The date indicates when most of the bacteria will have died under normal storage conditions. Properly inoculated seeds have thousands of bacteria per seed; however, only one bacterium is needed to infest a seedling's root. Bacteria on seed in hot soil die, a few at a time. Nevertheless, even after 2 or 3 weeks, there are usually enough live bacteria remaining to be effective.
Heat, direct sunlight, and drying are all detrimental to the survival of rhizobia. For this reason, it is important to store inoculant packets in a cool place (refrigerate if possible). Even with the large amounts of rhizobia initially applied, many bacteria may die during prolonged storage.
If there are questions about the viability of bacteria on inoculated seed due to the length of storage or storage conditions, then seed should be reinoculated. Do not use water to moisten lime-coated seed. Fresh inoculant can be applied with mineral oil as a sticker. About 1/2 ounce of mineral oil per pound of seed is sufficient.
Cost/benefit of inoculation: Inoculant is normally included with the higher priced seed. Cost for preinoculated seed is 5 to 10¢/lb more than comparable raw seed. Inoculant costs about $1/A, if applied by the producer.
All legumes (including alfalfa) can establish and survive without nitrogen-fixing bacteria, but plants cannot fix nitrogen. This means that without added nitrogen, plants will have a yellowish appearance and yields will be low. With high rates of nitrogen fertilizer application, uninoculated stands can be productive.
If nitrogen fertilizer is applied to alfalfa for normal growth and quality, 200 - 400 lb. actual N/A would be required, costing $50 - $200/A. Since inoculation is easy and cheap, it is probably the best insurance farmers can buy.
can i use it at any time ??
there is at least one commercial bacterial preparation that can be mixed with water and sprayed on plants to improve inoculation with rhizobia.
During dry or cold (below 500 F) soil conditions, rhizobia may not grow and multiply normally. Slow growth of rhizobia is also caused by acid or infertile soil. If fertilizer and lime were not applied according to soil tests, the materials should be applied as soon as possible and may alleviate the problem with poor inoculation.
The cost and effectiveness of inoculation after planting is highly variable because of the array of conditions that can cause poor inoculation. Rhizobia must come in contact with root hairs before they dry out or they will not be effective; consequently, weather conditions are critical for this application.
there is at least one commercial bacterial preparation that can be mixed with water and sprayed on plants to improve inoculation with rhizobia.
During dry or cold (below 500 F) soil conditions, rhizobia may not grow and multiply normally. Slow growth of rhizobia is also caused by acid or infertile soil. If fertilizer and lime were not applied according to soil tests, the materials should be applied as soon as possible and may alleviate the problem with poor inoculation.
The cost and effectiveness of inoculation after planting is highly variable because of the array of conditions that can cause poor inoculation. Rhizobia must come in contact with root hairs before they dry out or they will not be effective; consequently, weather conditions are critical for this application.
http://alfalfa.okstate.edu/pub/stand-949/seed.htm
I recieved a PACK OF THIS STUFF with an order of RED CLOVER im also experimenting with for phytoestrogens......... So i will use it on a few seeds ive got !
eza82
Well-Known Member
here are some current recommendations made to me by some pro`s in hort industry:
LIQUID LEAD
Grow Hard's Liquid Lead contains a special formula precisely designed for the heaviest harvest. A unique blend of organic enzyme activators, vitamins, essential animo acids and carbohydrates that will unleash the full flowering potential of your favourite plants or herbs.
Liquid Lead optimises harvest weight, promotes vigorous growth, enhances flavour and taste and increases health of flowering plants in your hydroponic system.
PRO-PK PROFESSIONAL POTASH
Superior Weight Booster
When you initiate flowering there is a massive surge in the plants requirement for potassium. Lowered potassium levels will simply slow down a plants growth rate to match the available potassium. More available potassium equals more flowers. Supplement your nutrient solution with PROFESSIONAL POTASH for increased potassium levels and maximum finished weight. Why dont nutrient manufacturers add all of this extra potassium in their nutrient mix? They cant for two reasons. The most important is that everybodys system is different. Nutrients are made to cope with a wide range of conditions and could easily become out of balance. Problems could occur because hydroponic systems are managed by electrical conductivity rather than chemical analysis. Adding the extra potassium is really fine tuning. The second problem is a chemical one. Concentrated nutrients start to behave differently as the concentration increases and can start to salt out, creating insoluble compounds that cant be used by the plant. We recommend PROFESSIONAL POTASH as an addition to your flowering nutrient for record breaking yields. Feel the weight of a bottle of PROFESSIONAL POTASH compared to our competitors, we put more in so that you get more out of your crop. Add PROFESSIONAL POTASH to fresh water at required rate first, then add your flowering nutrient and other additives. Pure elements in ultra pure water.
http://www.way2grow.com.au/
LIQUID LEAD
Grow Hard's Liquid Lead contains a special formula precisely designed for the heaviest harvest. A unique blend of organic enzyme activators, vitamins, essential animo acids and carbohydrates that will unleash the full flowering potential of your favourite plants or herbs.
Liquid Lead optimises harvest weight, promotes vigorous growth, enhances flavour and taste and increases health of flowering plants in your hydroponic system.
PRO-PK PROFESSIONAL POTASH
Superior Weight Booster
When you initiate flowering there is a massive surge in the plants requirement for potassium. Lowered potassium levels will simply slow down a plants growth rate to match the available potassium. More available potassium equals more flowers. Supplement your nutrient solution with PROFESSIONAL POTASH for increased potassium levels and maximum finished weight. Why dont nutrient manufacturers add all of this extra potassium in their nutrient mix? They cant for two reasons. The most important is that everybodys system is different. Nutrients are made to cope with a wide range of conditions and could easily become out of balance. Problems could occur because hydroponic systems are managed by electrical conductivity rather than chemical analysis. Adding the extra potassium is really fine tuning. The second problem is a chemical one. Concentrated nutrients start to behave differently as the concentration increases and can start to salt out, creating insoluble compounds that cant be used by the plant. We recommend PROFESSIONAL POTASH as an addition to your flowering nutrient for record breaking yields. Feel the weight of a bottle of PROFESSIONAL POTASH compared to our competitors, we put more in so that you get more out of your crop. Add PROFESSIONAL POTASH to fresh water at required rate first, then add your flowering nutrient and other additives. Pure elements in ultra pure water.
http://www.way2grow.com.au/
DaveTheNewbie
Well-Known Member
everyone here knows about P-K, and potash.
i think every single one of us adds some sort of potash in flowering, i know i do
whats so special about liquid lead vs any of 100 other products? eg brix+, superbud, monsta bud, headmasta, etc
we want the details man !
i think every single one of us adds some sort of potash in flowering, i know i do
whats so special about liquid lead vs any of 100 other products? eg brix+, superbud, monsta bud, headmasta, etc
we want the details man !
eza82
Well-Known Member
that PK POTASH is new to market... made by Grow hard... agri product.... dont know any one usesing it except this guy ! .... Pottasium sulphate / phosphours sulphate mix i think.....
Liquid Lead:Again aussie prodcut, CHEAP in comparision....... Will bring basic enzyems and carbs... add wieght ! He said he only uses canna A&B plus PK 13-14 (now + PK potash) Liquid lead for flower... and his results are amazing...
Out doors he also uses RICHLEA BLOOM instead of canna- again cheap !
He is growing weed and runs feilds of TURF, and VEGGY ;corn,broc,tomatoe,beets,many more) Million dollar business !
He has just started useing the PK POTASH...swears by it For both HYDRO and out doors.... I was intrested because I dont use potash indoors..... this I will.
eza82
Well-Known Member
CYCOCEL® 77A (essentially ROCK FLOWER JUICE)
Considering buying that ! will save about $100 a liter ! for my rock juice which is around $150 a liter !
DESCRIPTION:
Crop Care CYCOCEL® 77A
Plant Growth Regulant
ACTIVE CONSTITUENT: 77 g/L CHLORMEQUATpresent as CHLORMEQUAT CHLORIDE
Specifications:
Guaiacol
5-nitroguaiacol Guaiacol
Compound Sodium nitrophenolate
Sodium 5-nitroguaiacolate
Sodium para-nitrophenolate
DA-6
Sodium a-naphthaleneacitic acid
Sodium 2,4-dinitrophenolate
3'5'-Sodium nucleic acid
Compound potassium nitrophenolate
3-indolebutyric acid(IBA)
Laurocapram
Thiazone
Cyhalothrin-lambda(Cyhalothrin)
CYCOCEL 77A is a growth regulator which promotes flower formation and increases the berry set and yield of wine grapes and increase setting of currants.
Recommended Uses To increase the berry set and yield of wine grapes and increase setting of currants
.Advantages Increases the number of berries per bunch. Improves skin to total fruit ratio.
Benefits Improved colour of red wines. Increases yield.
Mode of Action CYCOCEL 77A is a growth regulator which inhibits cell elongation, hence shorthening and strengthening the stem and producing a sturdier plant. Also, influences the developmental cycle, leding to increased flowering and harvest.
Chemical Group PGR
General InstructionsMixing
Thoroughly mix the product with hard or soft water at the rates shown, then add wetter.
The product should be applied only to vigorous vines growing under good conditions and capable of carrying an increased crop.
This applies particularly to Muscat Gordo Blanco. As many factors affect yield of grapes, the use of CYCOCEL 77A may not always result in increased fruit production.
Compatibility
Do NOT mix the product with other chemicals except nonionic wetter, unless compatibility has been tested.
Company DetailsCROP CARE
Unit 15/16 Metroplex Avenue
Murarrie QLD 4172
Tel : 07 3909 2000
Fax : 07 3909 2010
Web : www.cropcare.com.au
INT trade site- with raw PGR`s
http://www.tradeindia.com/selloffer/...-chloride.html
Look at this research LONG read...but very formal !
Others im looking at.
Viggi Agro Products
Black Thunder - Potassium Humate for indoor!
Description/Specification Black thunder is a potassium humate which is 100% soluble in water and is in a powder form.
It is obtainable in a concentration of 70%humic acid , 15%fulvic acid and 15% organic soluble potassium.
It can be used in landscapes and gardens as well as for agriculture and horticulture purposes.
Description/Specification Black thunder is a potassium humate which is 100% soluble in water and is in a powder form.
It is obtainable in a concentration of 70%humic acid , 15%fulvic acid and 15% organic soluble potassium.
It can be used in landscapes and gardens as well as for agriculture and horticulture purposes.
The various advantages of potassium humate are:
* It stimulates the growth of the plant and improves the structure of the soil.
* It enhances the growth of the plant and soil fertility as it acts effectively on both the plant and soil.
* Black thunder can be easily stored and transported.
* It is easily soluble in water.
* It can also be applied with other chemical fertilizers or pesticides.
* It increases the nutrient values of the plant.
* It enhances the growth of the plant and soil fertility as it acts effectively on both the plant and soil.
* Black thunder can be easily stored and transported.
* It is easily soluble in water.
* It can also be applied with other chemical fertilizers or pesticides.
* It increases the nutrient values of the plant.
Viggi Agro Products
Bio Thunder (outdoor)
Description/Specification Bio Thunder is made up of mixture of plant extracts which are obtained from naturally occurring enzymes, vitamins, trace elements and amino acids of the plant origin. For the growth and development of the plant humate is a natural plant growth promoter which can be easily absorbed by the plant. It enhances the activity of the naturally available enzymes and hormones in the plant and thus fulfills the nutritional demand and accelerates the metabolic process of the plants. This active process helps in the formation of food materials like carbohydrates proteins etc. it promotes cell division which helps in the growth of the plant. Some of the prominent characteristics of Humate are:
Description/Specification Bio Thunder is made up of mixture of plant extracts which are obtained from naturally occurring enzymes, vitamins, trace elements and amino acids of the plant origin. For the growth and development of the plant humate is a natural plant growth promoter which can be easily absorbed by the plant. It enhances the activity of the naturally available enzymes and hormones in the plant and thus fulfills the nutritional demand and accelerates the metabolic process of the plants. This active process helps in the formation of food materials like carbohydrates proteins etc. it promotes cell division which helps in the growth of the plant. Some of the prominent characteristics of Humate are:
* Due to better stimulating phenomena it increase the yield
* It improves the color, shape, luster and taste of the fruit as it enhances the nutritional uptake and utilization.
* After the harvesting is done it improves the quality of the flower and the fruit.
* It helps in the growth and development of the roots by absorbing the nutrients from the soil.
* It increases the photosynthetic activity of the plant thus results in the growth of new green and lustrous leaves.
* It improves the resistivity and helps the growth of the plant even in adverse conditions.
* It improves the color, shape, luster and taste of the fruit as it enhances the nutritional uptake and utilization.
* After the harvesting is done it improves the quality of the flower and the fruit.
* It helps in the growth and development of the roots by absorbing the nutrients from the soil.
* It increases the photosynthetic activity of the plant thus results in the growth of new green and lustrous leaves.
* It improves the resistivity and helps the growth of the plant even in adverse conditions.
These are cheap ..............http://www.tradeindia.com/fp82279/Bio-Thunder.html
Here is a full list of different raw materials and cheap humantes and mixtures !
jberry
Well-Known Member
Yea thanks man.
There's a company called Reforestation Technologies International and it has some products worth looking at, and a lot of their products are being used in the Giant Vegetable Growing community by people who are breaking new world records for heaviest vegetables. They arent PGR's but some of their products do influence different Plant/Soil Hormones.
and now RTI is releasing a new biological product to revolutionize the sport of extreme gardening: Azos, which contains Azospirillum brasilense, an organism many times smaller than the microscopic mycorrhizae.
How does Azos work?
Nitrogen is an essential ingredient for fast-growing, healthy plants.
The good news? This element makes up nearly 80% of the Earth’s atmosphere!
The bad news? Plants can’t absorb nitrogen from the air.
To give plants nitrogen, gardeners typically rely on chemical fertilizers. Unfortunately, over-fertilization of a vital nutrient can be as damaging as lacking nutrients. Fertilizer burn occurs when a plant receives too many nutrients, resulting in dry, dysfunctional roots and damage or even death of the plant.
Of course, nature has already found a solution to this problem in the form of a beneficial microbe called Azospirillum brasilense. This little organism lives with your plants, and supplies nitrogen as needed. In addition to fixing nitrogen in the CORRECT amounts, Azospirillum releases a PLANT GROWTH HORMONE called IAA (indole-three-acetic acid) that increases lateral root growth and root hairs. This increased root surface area allows the plant to control it’s nutrient intake, absorbing just what it needs at the right time. Additionally, Azospirillum works with mycorrhizae to maximize a plant’s potential, maintaining plant health despite the presence of natural events such as soil pathogens, drought, shock, stress, and infestations.
Until recently, there was no American provider of Azospirillum. Now Azos, is available exclusively through RTI.
The benefit of Azospirillum to natural ecosystems has been heavily researched, but the use of this natural solution by competitive growers is just beginning. Research using this microbe to enhance plant growth have revealed 5-20% yield increases despite substantially decreasing fertilizer.
Now this cutting-edge natural technology is ready to help the competitive growers of North America set new records with their amazing results. Whether you are trying to set a new world record with your gardening or just seeking your next personal best, this beneficial microbe will help you achieve the results you want.
Sunday, July 12th, 2009
There's a company called Reforestation Technologies International and it has some products worth looking at, and a lot of their products are being used in the Giant Vegetable Growing community by people who are breaking new world records for heaviest vegetables. They arent PGR's but some of their products do influence different Plant/Soil Hormones.
and now RTI is releasing a new biological product to revolutionize the sport of extreme gardening: Azos, which contains Azospirillum brasilense, an organism many times smaller than the microscopic mycorrhizae.
How does Azos work?
Nitrogen is an essential ingredient for fast-growing, healthy plants.
The good news? This element makes up nearly 80% of the Earth’s atmosphere!
The bad news? Plants can’t absorb nitrogen from the air.
To give plants nitrogen, gardeners typically rely on chemical fertilizers. Unfortunately, over-fertilization of a vital nutrient can be as damaging as lacking nutrients. Fertilizer burn occurs when a plant receives too many nutrients, resulting in dry, dysfunctional roots and damage or even death of the plant.
Of course, nature has already found a solution to this problem in the form of a beneficial microbe called Azospirillum brasilense. This little organism lives with your plants, and supplies nitrogen as needed. In addition to fixing nitrogen in the CORRECT amounts, Azospirillum releases a PLANT GROWTH HORMONE called IAA (indole-three-acetic acid) that increases lateral root growth and root hairs. This increased root surface area allows the plant to control it’s nutrient intake, absorbing just what it needs at the right time. Additionally, Azospirillum works with mycorrhizae to maximize a plant’s potential, maintaining plant health despite the presence of natural events such as soil pathogens, drought, shock, stress, and infestations.
Until recently, there was no American provider of Azospirillum. Now Azos, is available exclusively through RTI.
The benefit of Azospirillum to natural ecosystems has been heavily researched, but the use of this natural solution by competitive growers is just beginning. Research using this microbe to enhance plant growth have revealed 5-20% yield increases despite substantially decreasing fertilizer.
Now this cutting-edge natural technology is ready to help the competitive growers of North America set new records with their amazing results. Whether you are trying to set a new world record with your gardening or just seeking your next personal best, this beneficial microbe will help you achieve the results you want.
Sunday, July 12th, 2009
eza82
Well-Known Member
That's a very interesting article ! Sounds interesting IAA, is readily available here and something I included in 40 % of my feedings in way of a liquid feed that contains: IAA and NAA @78% active. During entire life cycle indoors. The dose each time is tiny. (5ML to 80 Litres of water) but done as an additive to feed schedule.
SO im really interested in this Azos. Anything I can do more organic or naturally the better.
:as he skips off to google it:
SO im really interested in this Azos. Anything I can do more organic or naturally the better.
:as he skips off to google it:
jberry
Well-Known Member
here is the link to their website: http://www.reforest.com/
the website has a ton of helpful information in general, not just about their products, but it can be a little tricky to find because the way the site is layed out.
check out Pumpkin Pro as well.
the website has a ton of helpful information in general, not just about their products, but it can be a little tricky to find because the way the site is layed out.
check out Pumpkin Pro as well.
jberry
Well-Known Member
I promise not to keep jacking your thread but here is something interesting involving Hormones....
According to Penn State’s Horticulture expert Rich Marini, the vibrations from music and speech might actually stimulate plant growth.
Wind also creates similar vibrations. When plants are regularly affected by wind (fan), a Hormone called Ethylene is released. This hormone creates thicker, stronger stems and might be the same hormone released when plants are played music.
However, too much of this hormone can stunt plant growth, which might be why music played for more than four hours a day can make plants sickly.
Check out these threads if you want to learn more about how crazy plants are...
https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/294405-influence-music-plants.html
https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/222916-how-plants-communicate.html
-Peace, -J
According to Penn State’s Horticulture expert Rich Marini, the vibrations from music and speech might actually stimulate plant growth.
Wind also creates similar vibrations. When plants are regularly affected by wind (fan), a Hormone called Ethylene is released. This hormone creates thicker, stronger stems and might be the same hormone released when plants are played music.
However, too much of this hormone can stunt plant growth, which might be why music played for more than four hours a day can make plants sickly.
Check out these threads if you want to learn more about how crazy plants are...
https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/294405-influence-music-plants.html
https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/222916-how-plants-communicate.html
-Peace, -J
jberry
Well-Known Member
Right on thanks.
Im totally interested in the obscure information even though many times its not always applicable and more research is needed... i just like it when people are able to at least THINK out of the box... i like to be at the front of the innovative curve even if i dont act out everything i read, its still very interesting to me.
Im sure i'll be lurking around with me tidbits of info...
There is also some info on how Colors can effect plant Hormones in this thread: https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/294339-influence-colors-plants.html
-Peace, ~J
Im totally interested in the obscure information even though many times its not always applicable and more research is needed... i just like it when people are able to at least THINK out of the box... i like to be at the front of the innovative curve even if i dont act out everything i read, its still very interesting to me.
Im sure i'll be lurking around with me tidbits of info...
There is also some info on how Colors can effect plant Hormones in this thread: https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/294339-influence-colors-plants.html
-Peace, ~J