HLG 260w led + Canna vega problems.

Gman94

Member
Hey, So i recently bought a HLG 260w LED (4000k) light setup. But im having major problems growing under them, and i cant really figure out why. Im growing Northern lights from bulk seeds. its an autoflowering strain.

Temp is stable at about 25-28C (77-82f)
Humidity is ranging between 60-80%, im trying to keep it lowered in the 4 hours of dark ive decided to give my plants daily.
Lights have been kept at 24-30 inches on standard power ( 250w from the wall)

Im using CANNA hydro vega, following the feeding chart on their website.
BcuzZ root stimulator and vitalink Calmag, GuardnAid Oxyplus.

So ive been following the feeding chart from canna`s own site, inputting the EC levels of my tap water so it should be fine. The thing is that when i add oxyplus, calmag and BcuzZ root stimulator i get elevated EC levels.

I have a 60L ( 15 gal) reservoir, im growing hydro. the feeding chart sais to start at 107ml A and 107ml B of the canna vega nutritient solution in total over the 15 gallons. This gave me an EC of about 1.2, this was exactly like the feeding chart said. Afterwards i added bcuczz root stimulator at 50% strenght according to the bottle, so 30ml in total on the 15 gal res. Then i added oxyplus also at about 50% if i remember correctly. And then i was told by someone experienced that with led lights i would get cal mag deficiencies because of the light spectrum from the leds, and that i should use calmag and raise the EC by 10% with it, raising the EC by 10% resulted in about 10-20ml of the calmag solution, wich is about 1/6th to 1/3rd of the strenght the bottle reccomends.

one or two days afterwards i started getting these symptoms shown in the first pic. Weird spots on the leaf, i thought it was a deficiency problem, and the plant was about a week old when this happened, and the feeding chart sais you can up to 130ml nutritient in about this part of the grow, so i did.

The next day the problem had increased. I looked up some topics on deficiencies and toxicities on the great interwebs and decided it looks like a calsium deficiency. I upped the concentration of the calmag to the strenght shown on the bottle, 60ml in total on 60l( 15 gal ) . this increased my EC to about 1.6-7 wich is very high ?Afterwards i found out that a mag toxicity can cause blockouts of calcium and show up as a calcium deficiency symptom.

The next day the problem was still getting worse, so i figured it is proboably a mag toxicity problem not a calcium deficiency, and flushed my reservoir and added only the base canna vega hydro nutritients. at 90ml total wich is below the feeding chart. This morning i upped it to 110 wich is according to the first early week of the grow in the feeding chart.

I feel like the problem might still be persistent. The latest pics are from this day and the yellowing tips of the bigger plant has occured today im pretty sure.

the smaller plant has become worse today aswell but im not sure if it has spread or if its just the already affected leaves showing more signs of the damage.

At this moment i have an EC of 1.0, water temp of 20c ( 68f) a ph of 6.4 ( the ph has always been at an acceptable level) a air temperature of 25c ( 77f) and a humidity at 75%. I have dimmed down the light to 125w, and it is hanging at 25 inches. I dimmed it down to 125w about an hour ago just because im scared the symptoms are actually coming from light burn, these leds have pretty impressing ppfd readings and even at 125w it should be giving about 600ppfd at 12 inches height. Im gonna link a review and ppfd test to them.



I have attached a bunch of pics. All of these are taken 3 or 4 days apart.

I might have fixed the problem already with the flushing, only base nutes and dimming down the light already, im not sure. I dont know how fast i should be seing results in the plant getting better ? But i am posting now anyways because some of you might have some good tips for me wich i can read tomorrow if my plants still show signs of worsening.

And if anyones wondering what im using instead of rock pebbles its something called flower foam, i cut it perfectly so the rockwool cube was just above the surface of the water and i think it worked out perfectly. I dont think this affects anything because the roots are not growing trough them at all .

Thanks in advance.
 

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NewbyGrower77

Active Member
I am using same light and i am having similar issue with a one plant (its my test plant and photo periode bag seed ) its in my auto tent. Not sure whats going on. Hopefully someone will help.
 

zypheruk

Well-Known Member
"So ive been following the feeding chart from canna`s own site, inputting the EC levels of my tap water so it should be fine. The thing is that when i add oxyplus, calmag and BcuzZ root stimulator i get elevated EC levels. "

That is your problem right there.

1: never feed at the strength it says on the feed table. Max I ever use is EC1.4 late veg and full flower. Tap water EC 0.2
2: don't use oxyplus when your using additives like root stim, the oxy will just wipe out whats in the root stim.

So make enough feed using just a+b up with a lower EC 0.7, PH 5.8 and give it a few days and see if fixes the problems.
 

Gman94

Member
"So ive been following the feeding chart from canna`s own site, inputting the EC levels of my tap water so it should be fine. The thing is that when i add oxyplus, calmag and BcuzZ root stimulator i get elevated EC levels. "

That is your problem right there.

1: never feed at the strength it says on the feed table. Max I ever use is EC1.4 late veg and full flower. Tap water EC 0.2
2: don't use oxyplus when your using additives like root stim, the oxy will just wipe out whats in the root stim.

So make enough feed using just a+b up with a lower EC 0.7, PH 5.8 and give it a few days and see if fixes the problems.
Thanks for the input. The problem was fixed by doing like i said. Changing the res and going with only base nutritients, i added oxyplus and root stim the days afterwards and they were growing healthy for a week. Yesterday i upped the strenght again, added 150ml a and 150ml b to my res of 60L, this is the same as 25ml pr 10l, the ec ended up at 1.5 or 1.6 i think, i also added 5ml of calmag to the res.

The same problems got back again. I think i figured something out, since the LED spectrum makes your plants consume more magnesium, and thats why we add calmag, when you give the plants too much nutritients you’re gonna get a completely different kind of nute burn than you’re used to under HID’s. Under HID’s when you add too much nutes you’re gonna get nitrogen toxicity, thats what happened for me every time atleast. But under LED’s you’re gonna get a magnesium toxicity, wich blocks out calcium and shows up on your plants as a calcium deficiency, thats why i had such a hard time figuring out the problem a week ago.

Right now im hoping the problem doesnt continue after i took out about 5l of nutritient filled water from the res and added about 5l of fresh water with no nutes. The EC is about 1.4-1.5 right now.
 

Tim1987

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the input. The problem was fixed by doing like i said. Changing the res and going with only base nutritients, i added oxyplus and root stim the days afterwards and they were growing healthy for a week. Yesterday i upped the strenght again, added 150ml a and 150ml b to my res of 60L, this is the same as 25ml pr 10l, the ec ended up at 1.5 or 1.6 i think, i also added 5ml of calmag to the res.

The same problems got back again. I think i figured something out, since the LED spectrum makes your plants consume more magnesium, and thats why we add calmag, when you give the plants too much nutritients you’re gonna get a completely different kind of nute burn than you’re used to under HID’s. Under HID’s when you add too much nutes you’re gonna get nitrogen toxicity, thats what happened for me every time atleast. But under LED’s you’re gonna get a magnesium toxicity, wich blocks out calcium and shows up on your plants as a calcium deficiency, thats why i had such a hard time figuring out the problem a week ago.

Right now im hoping the problem doesnt continue after i took out about 5l of nutritient filled water from the res and added about 5l of fresh water with no nutes. The EC is about 1.4-1.5 right now.
IMHO you are right, and wrong.
It's not your light causing calmag issues. It's toxicity, as you say. But it isn't the base a+b you're adding. It's the calmag you're supplementing.
It's most likely nutrient antagonism. Excess calcium, and magnesium locks out potassium. Potassium deficiency in plants locks out calcium, and magnesium.
It's why you noticed it doesn't look deficient. Because it isn't. It's lockout.

In my opinion cut out the calmag. Flush with your ab, at lower ec/ppm
 

Gman94

Member
IMHO you are right, and wrong.
It's not your light causing calmag issues. It's toxicity, as you say. But it isn't the base a+b you're adding. It's the calmag you're supplementing.
It's most likely nutrient antagonism. Excess calcium, and magnesium locks out potassium. Potassium deficiency in plants locks out calcium, and magnesium.
It's why you noticed it doesn't look deficient. Because it isn't. It's lockout.

In my opinion cut out the calmag. Flush with your ab, at lower ec/ppm

Okay, yeah im gonna follow this advice and see what happends. No calmag at all then ?

They are 3 weeks old now, have good roots established, what EC should i be on ?
 

Tim1987

Well-Known Member
Okay, yeah im gonna follow this advice and see what happends. No calmag at all then ?

They are 3 weeks old now, have good roots established, what EC should i be on ?
Just cut the calmag.
Go by you gut feeling for ec. It's a bit of a guessing game really. But at a guess, depending on npk. At 3.weeks probably 0.4 - 0.8 ec. Just depends on several factors, environment, feeding routine, npk% etc, etc.
Go by your gut feeling. Trust your instincts a little.
 

Gman94

Member
IMHO you are right, and wrong.
It's not your light causing calmag issues. It's toxicity, as you say. But it isn't the base a+b you're adding. It's the calmag you're supplementing.
It's most likely nutrient antagonism. Excess calcium, and magnesium locks out potassium. Potassium deficiency in plants locks out calcium, and magnesium.
It's why you noticed it doesn't look deficient. Because it isn't. It's lockout.

In my opinion cut out the calmag. Flush with your ab, at lower ec/ppm
They say old leaves dont recover, but can they continue to worsen after the problem is fixed? They look a bit worse today than they did yesterday but it has not spread to other leaves. Is it just the old leaf thats getting less energy because of the damage and therefore worsening even after the problem is fixed, or is the problem still there, and is going to spread to other leaves aswell soon?
 

Tim1987

Well-Known Member
They say old leaves dont recover, but can they continue to worsen after the problem is fixed? They look a bit worse today than they did yesterday but it has not spread to other leaves. Is it just the old leaf thats getting less energy because of the damage and therefore worsening even after the problem is fixed, or is the problem still there, and is going to spread to other leaves aswell soon?
I'd say, if it doesn't spread. The problem is likely fixed.
 

Gman94

Member
I'd say, if it doesn't spread. The problem is likely fixed.
Im hoping its fixed then. I didnt change the res and flush, i just empties off 5l and put 5l of fresh water with no nutes back in, lowered the EC to about 1.3-1.4. Affected leaves have gotten worse but no new leaves seem to be getting any symptoms. Hoping they will keep healthy from now on.

Since they are autoflowers and its my first led grow im worried about shit like this messing up my yield
 

Gman94

Member
I ended up flushing, im on 600ppm / 0.9 ec of only the base nutritient canna vega, no supplements. Seems like the damn problem got worse.

Am i just a complete dummy or is growing under LED’s tricky as shit ??
 

Tim1987

Well-Known Member
I ended up flushing, im on 600ppm / 0.9 ec of only the base nutritient canna vega, no supplements. Seems like the damn problem got worse.

Am i just a complete dummy or is growing under LED’s tricky as shit ??
How.big are your plants/plant?
What's the npk%
Can you send a pic?
 

Aolelon

Well-Known Member
I ended up flushing, im on 600ppm / 0.9 ec of only the base nutritient canna vega, no supplements. Seems like the damn problem got worse.

Am i just a complete dummy or is growing under LED’s tricky as shit ??
No not really. You are just over feeding.
 

Gman94

Member
I cant tell you the exact percetages cause im not at home atm, but its the canna vega aqua line, its a commonly used nutritient isnt it? But the ratio is 6:3:8

Heres some pics. The first two are from before i went down on the ec / ppm and cut out the calmag. The last two are the problem still going on after cutting out the calmag and going strongly down on the ec/ppm
 

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ANC

Well-Known Member
I ended up flushing, im on 600ppm / 0.9 ec of only the base nutritient canna vega, no supplements. Seems like the damn problem got worse.

Am i just a complete dummy or is growing under LED’s tricky as shit ??
No, you have other problems, it is not the light.
 
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