High runoff ppm in promix hp...help

thumper60

Well-Known Member
Setup
32inx32inx 63in tent
900w viparspectra led
192 cfm exhaust
Temp range 70-77 lights on off
Complete remo line nutes
Filtered water 000ppm -002 ppm
Ph adjusted to 5.9 each watering
5 gallon Smart pots with promix hp

WEEK 2 FLOWER
FIRST GROW

okay so need some help from you kind folks...having an issue with runoff ppm...water feed water feed shedual ...feeding at approx 800 ppm but my runoff is coming out way higher ..fed last night at 800 runoff was 1600 plus out of each plant last watering was clean water only..ph is coming out around 6-6.2..I did a flush 3 weeks ago before flower and ppm were slightly higher then going in..in 130 out 210...so figured I had solved the problem...but no each week constantly higher then what I fed...should I flush again? Pics attached..if any more info is needed let me know...hoping it's the smart pots holding onto salts? Experiencing slow growth rate and slight leaf discoloration

Like I said watered last night if a flush is in order then should I wait till they dry or flush it tonight? Also should I flush with 50 percent nutes water since I'm in flower? If it's needed that is..please let me know appreciate any help..kinda frustrating problemView attachment 4134747 View attachment 4134748
not sure why ya flushing promix just cut back on ferts,gotta c them plants in blue light,bet u have just over fed just run straight water till u get where u want:wall:only reason ever to flush promix is over feeding,other than that never flush promix an leave it wet for days
 

AKA Big Boss

Well-Known Member
It's not really needed with experience but it's useful for beginners. Especially if you're asking for help as it gives people definite info to work from instead of having to guess.
I agree but in time it's best to learn to identify issues based on symptoms and not tools especially because of how unreliable PPM meters can be. Of course in the case of DWC and other resevoir based hydro systems you should constantly monitor PPM.
 

AKA Big Boss

Well-Known Member
Do yourself a favor. Run premixed soil, water only and throw those things away lol
Cheers :)
I hate soil. Too many uncontrollable variables. Can't treat it with peroxide either and in areas with high humidity the possibility of pests and unwanted fungus is extremely high. It's nice being able to have a "set it and forget it" system but when I get fungus gnats in coco I can nuke them instantly with peroxide and neem oil and never worry about killing off anything important. Also it makes over watering a non issue.
 

GreenHighlander

Well-Known Member
I hate soil. Too many uncontrollable variables. Can't treat it with peroxide either and in areas with high humidity the possibility of pests and unwanted fungus is extremely high. It's nice being able to have a "set it and forget it" system but when I get fungus gnats in coco I can nuke them instantly with peroxide and neem oil and never worry about killing off anything important. Also it makes over watering a non issue.
To each their own. I disagree with pretty much everything you said lol For me it is set it and forget it . Unwanted pests and fungus, as well as over watering are not a pro mix issue. All of those are grower errors.
Does that make you or me wrong? Neither. It is finding what is best and easiest for you. My theory is whatever method fits that is what is best for that person.
Cheers :)
 

AKA Big Boss

Well-Known Member
To each their own. I disagree with pretty much everything you said lol For me it is set it and forget it . Unwanted pests and fungus, as well as over watering are not a pro mix issue. All of those are grower errors.
Does that make you or me wrong? Neither. It is finding what is best and easiest for you. My theory is whatever method fits that is what is best for that person.
Cheers :)
Interesting perspective. I don't disagree. I guess it falls down to preference but I like the micro control you get with coco. Maybe I'll run pro mix next, give soil another chance. But fungus has always been my biggest issue. No matter what I do I still get it. Fortunately not on the actual plant but on the mesh pots and coco.
 

GreenHighlander

Well-Known Member
Interesting perspective. I don't disagree. I guess it falls down to preference but I like the micro control you get with coco. Maybe I'll run pro mix next, give soil another chance. But fungus has always been my biggest issue. No matter what I do I still get it. Fortunately not on the actual plant but on the mesh pots and coco.
There are key aspects for what I am saying to be true. You want fresh bales of pro mix, that are not saturated with water and have zero holes what so ever. Beyond that you want good quality amendments for your mix. You want good are circulation and exhaust. You want to go through as many wet dry cycles as possible. That is why I switched to fabric pots and will never go back. You want a good source of water. If tap is high dissolved solids get an RO machine. If you RO make sure you make up for the lost minerals somehow.
Pests is cleanliness and above all else prevention!!!
After 20+ years I have gone full circle on growing methods. I like the simplicity and ease of soil. Not to mention the quality of the final product. If I was still growing for volume I would be running DWC or hell even the ol flood and drain tables.
I haven't touched a meter in years and love it
Cheers :)
 

AKA Big Boss

Well-Known Member
There are key aspects for what I am saying to be true. You want fresh bales of pro mix, that are not saturated with water and have zero holes what so ever. Beyond that you want good quality amendments for your mix. You want good are circulation and exhaust. You want to go through as many wet dry cycles as possible. That is why I switched to fabric pots and will never go back. You want a good source of water. If tap is high dissolved solids get an RO machine. If you RO make sure you make up for the lost minerals somehow.
Pests is cleanliness and above all else prevention!!!
After 20+ years I have gone full circle on growing methods. I like the simplicity and ease of soil. Not to mention the quality of the final product. If I was still growing for volume I would be running DWC or hell even the ol flood and drain tables.
I haven't touched a meter in years and love it
Cheers :)
I have some questions can you PM me?
 

thumper60

Well-Known Member
There are key aspects for what I am saying to be true. You want fresh bales of pro mix, that are not saturated with water and have zero holes what so ever. Beyond that you want good quality amendments for your mix. You want good are circulation and exhaust. You want to go through as many wet dry cycles as possible. That is why I switched to fabric pots and will never go back. You want a good source of water. If tap is high dissolved solids get an RO machine. If you RO make sure you make up for the lost minerals somehow.
Pests is cleanliness and above all else prevention!!!
After 20+ years I have gone full circle on growing methods. I like the simplicity and ease of soil. Not to mention the quality of the final product. If I was still growing for volume I would be running DWC or hell even the ol flood and drain tables.
I haven't touched a meter in years and love it
Cheers :)
yes sir promix-rainwater 30 plus yrs never owned meter of all kind,read ya plant!promix is the best of both worlds control like hydro but got some buffer like soil.but dam it needs a wet-dry cycle its rots when always wet
 

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
High Kage87

I've been growing with Promix HP for a number of years now and might have a little insight into your high runoff. HP has dolomitic and calcitic limestone added to counter the low pH inherent in peat moss. Once you first water your plants it begins to dissolve and greatly increases the amount of mineral salts/ppm in the pots. Then you pour in your nutes and test your runoff to find it's way higher than what you added.

Perfectly normal and to be expected. Thing is you don't want any runoff with it using RO water. I go whole grows without ever removing runoff once unless I've miscalculated and gave them too much. Then I'll suck that out with a turkey baster and give it to other plants that sucked up anything that initially ran out after watering. Or save it in a jar and give it back to that plant the next day when it has used up some of it's water.

I let the pots get pretty dry and judge when to water by hoisting the pot up a bit to feel it's weight. I'll also measure the amount of water it takes to totally saturate a dry pot and when I next have to water I can just add 10% less than that and pour the whole amount into the pot and walk away if I want. It will pour thru and fill the catch pan right to the rim sometimes if it's really fry so have to watch it doesn't overflow but I'm getting good at not doing that. I'll let it sit for at least an hour and if it's all gone maybe add a bit more water to make sure it's totally soaked and no dry areas in the root zone. If it still has water in the pan then I suck that out.

I'm not familiar with Remo nutes but sure know that name. I checked them out and they look like pretty good stuff. After mixing what you are going to feed your plants what pH do you get before adjusting?

After all the flushing you've done trying to correct a perceived problem you've likely washed out a lot of the buffering capacity that was there when you started by removing a lot of the dissolved lime. You might want to water with a bit higher pH.

I do DWC as well and check my ppm for that but not with plants I grow in pots. I go by fractions of what it says on the jugs to feed. I use AN 3-part nutes and have for 17 years. They say to use 4ml/L and I consider that max strength so for small plants I'll use 1ml/L in small pots then as they grow and move to larger quarters I'll use 1.5 - 2ml/L every 2nd watering. With vigorous growth and bigger plants I'll go up to 3ml/L but have never in years gone to 4. Easy to burn plants with hydro nutes especially if you have very low humidity like we have here way up in northern Alberta. During the winter months it can be hard to keep the RH over 30% and I may feed half as much to prevent nute burn. Hate those dry, crispy fan leaves about 5 weeks into flowering and it's only been a couple of years that I clued into vapour pressure deficit and it's implications in nutrient uptake and plant growth. Getting a handle on that now.

No end of things to learn growing pot or any plants I guess. Helps keep the oldtimer's disease at bay I hope. :)

:peace:
 

Kage87

Active Member
High Kage87

I've been growing with Promix HP for a number of years now and might have a little insight into your high runoff. HP has dolomitic and calcitic limestone added to counter the low pH inherent in peat moss. Once you first water your plants it begins to dissolve and greatly increases the amount of mineral salts/ppm in the pots. Then you pour in your nutes and test your runoff to find it's way higher than what you added.

Perfectly normal and to be expected. Thing is you don't want any runoff with it using RO water. I go whole grows without ever removing runoff once unless I've miscalculated and gave them too much. Then I'll suck that out with a turkey baster and give it to other plants that sucked up anything that initially ran out after watering. Or save it in a jar and give it back to that plant the next day when it has used up some of it's water.

I let the pots get pretty dry and judge when to water by hoisting the pot up a bit to feel it's weight. I'll also measure the amount of water it takes to totally saturate a dry pot and when I next have to water I can just add 10% less than that and pour the whole amount into the pot and walk away if I want. It will pour thru and fill the catch pan right to the rim sometimes if it's really fry so have to watch it doesn't overflow but I'm getting good at not doing that. I'll let it sit for at least an hour and if it's all gone maybe add a bit more water to make sure it's totally soaked and no dry areas in the root zone. If it still has water in the pan then I suck that out.

I'm not familiar with Remo nutes but sure know that name. I checked them out and they look like pretty good stuff. After mixing what you are going to feed your plants what pH do you get before adjusting?

After all the flushing you've done trying to correct a perceived problem you've likely washed out a lot of the buffering capacity that was there when you started by removing a lot of the dissolved lime. You might want to water with a bit higher pH.

I do DWC as well and check my ppm for that but not with plants I grow in pots. I go by fractions of what it says on the jugs to feed. I use AN 3-part nutes and have for 17 years. They say to use 4ml/L and I consider that max strength so for small plants I'll use 1ml/L in small pots then as they grow and move to larger quarters I'll use 1.5 - 2ml/L every 2nd watering. With vigorous growth and bigger plants I'll go up to 3ml/L but have never in years gone to 4. Easy to burn plants with hydro nutes especially if you have very low humidity like we have here way up in northern Alberta. During the winter months it can be hard to keep the RH over 30% and I may feed half as much to prevent nute burn. Hate those dry, crispy fan leaves about 5 weeks into flowering and it's only been a couple of years that I clued into vapour pressure deficit and it's implications in nutrient uptake and plant growth. Getting a handle on that now.

No end of things to learn growing pot or any plants I guess. Helps keep the oldtimer's disease at bay I hope. :)

:peace:
Pm'd (I think lol)
 

Somatek

Well-Known Member
Seeing the leaf colour I don't think they need to be flushed. Old Med User's explanation sounds logical, I was using coco by the time I had a pH meter which is closer to hydro as it isn't buffered.

Just looks like you need to dial in the nutes a bit better. Finding someone experienced with Remo nutes would be useful.
 

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
First two pics-jack herer from seed
Second 2 pics-og kush from clone
They're looking pretty damn good!

If I were you I'd get in there and thin out a lot of that undergrowth. Never going to amount to much and without light on it it is taking energy from the plant to slowly grow a bunch of popcorn buds that are a pain to trim. Lower quality too so when they are gone the energy they would have used can go to the main attraction up top.

If you are new to cloning it's the perfect opportunity to get some practice. It can be as easy as dropping some cuttings into a glass of water and setting them under low light set at 18 hrs/day or buying a fancy cloner with a water pump and jets spraying all over the place.

You might hear some say to defoliate most of your fan leaves but they are the solar panels turning light into food for your plants so even if they are shading lower colas those colas are still growing fine from the extra food those fan leaves are producing.

I crop in stages. When the big top colas are ripe I take them off, trim them up completely and dry very slowly over a couple of weeks at least so they stay evenly moist as they dry and can cure to their best potential. The ones underneath are now exposed to full light and a lighter green with still clear trichs. Takes about 10 days and they will fatten up and their trichs will cloud over to where I want them and them I'll take the rest of them. That slow dry will give a much smoother, tastier smoke than hanging them up for 3 or 4 days before trimming then burping the near dry buds in jars for a week. I usually take a month or more to burp my jars down a dry good enough to burn a bud in my pipe. Still a bit too moist to grind and roll joints with tho but I don't often roll joints unless I have company.

You fed them any bloom booster yet. I give a half dose of Big Bud a week before I flip to "prime the pump" so to say. Seems to work pretty good.

My smaller of two Critical Mass from clone last night after it's 21st day of 12/12.

CriticalMassSmallDay2111051801.jpg
:peace:
 
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