Help me germinate and wrist flick rockwool cube...

2Hearts

2Hearts

Well-Known Member
I presoaked at ph 5.5 for 24hours, shook them dry by flicking them in my hand and then ran fresh 5.5ph 0.6ec nutrient solution through 1.5" rockwool (growth technology cubes) and planted seed.

I didnt know how wet to keep them so left em half wet top dry, you can see the water level on the side which was about a third way up.

All germinated then failed and on inspection the root had halted after a few milimeters into the cube.

I read more and seems i might have had them too wet, should i have flicked em dry till there was very little water left at the bottom and just slightly moist to the touch?

Ive repeated them like this anyway hoping that was my problem but after lots and lots of reading its still unclear how wet or dry to make the cubes. They spend their time in a propogator till they sprout so this means i dont have to water till after they sprout and go under the light.

Any insight would be helpfull and a definative answer based on weight and how dry exactly to make them after wrist flicking em.

They seem really light if i flick all the water out but seem moist no problems. Once they hit lights i plan on using a proper watering timetable but not got that far yet, i have grown soil and soiless many times but now its rockwools time.

Thanks peeps :-)

Pic is first attempt and it died rip 2015-06-15 00.13.10.jpg
 
they may have got too warm and damped off,suffocated.
place seed in depth of only 2-3 times the size of seed.
RR cubes should be misted enough to stay damp/moist at all times,not soaked
never germinate in a closed heated dome,seeds need air
250-300 ppm is fine.
ideal ambient temp 78-80 fh
DSC03867.JPG DSC03868.JPG
 
medviper said:
they may have got too warm and damped off,suffocated.
place seed in depth of only 2-3 times the size of seed.
RR cubes should be misted enough to stay damp/moist at all times,not soaked
never germinate in a closed heated dome,seeds need air
250-300 ppm is fine.
ideal ambient temp 78-80 fh
View attachment 3442082 View attachment 3442083
Click to expand...

My temps arent too high as unheated propogator but from what your both saying confirms i had the cubes too saturared.

A fine mist spray bottle is next on my list so should help with keeping cubes moist not wet.

Im really looking forward to the next batch sprouting with these new changes. :-)
 
I take ot you read al b fucts post.

When I was following his advice with RW id use a salad spinner(as was his suggestion) for dryong out the cubes after the 5.5pH soak.

Hr used the 40mm cubes about 1.5 inches. They weigh about 5g dry and should weigh 25-30g properly wet.

I would juat dip the bottom of the cube in water quickly and that usually added 20-25gof water. I used a scale until I got a feel for it.
 
firsttimeARE said:
I take ot you read al b fucts post.

When I was following his advice with RW id use a salad spinner(as was his suggestion) for dryong out the cubes after the 5.5pH soak.

Hr used the 40mm cubes about 1.5 inches. They weigh about 5g dry and should weigh 25-30g properly wet.

I would juat dip the bottom of the cube in water quickly and that usually added 20-25gof water. I used a scale until I got a feel for it.
Click to expand...

Oh ive read Als threads time after time over the years but hes so clone specific, i was a soil growing member then and still read them, hec i remember waiting for his next post. Your right about weighing the cube before and after watering as im seeing that rockwool wicks up and holds many times its weight in water.

Until i get scales im just getting a feel for how moist to keep the cubes. Als methods do differ slightly as he waters his clones and im relying on a propogator to keep them moist for five days.

His last threads show how many changes hes made since he first started posting and his changes to floc and the other mediums hes tried..

Any help and advice of yours and als you can give is much appreciated, i wonder if als back soon or if hes at another site where he can be reached?

Thanks doood :-)
 
Last I knew (from his thread) he got a gig writing for a magazine. "Fighting the fight in another outlet" was the way I remember him wording it.

I started hydro wanting to replicate his setup except with suspended netpots on an F&D table with roots left to dangle. Built a cool table with rails to hold the netpots and fashioned a cover out of some black/white poly with holes cut into it and used it probably 3 times when I was learning and decided for whatever reason to go DWC.

As far as you wanting to keep your RW hydrated for up to 5 days, thats asking a lot. I remember in times of low humidity i'd have to water my cubes twice a day.
 
I am differentiating from a clone:- clone needs light heat and water vs a seed that just needs water and heat but will germinate at much lower temps than a clone would want.

As soon as the seed breaks the surface i have heat mats and t5 groluxs which should give the required heat to dry in once a day or a gram of water lost each hour requiring 24grams of water each day and what your saying.

I hope this makes sense but do i need to hit 25celcius and once twice daily waterings or can i just leave it sit moist in my 18celcius cupboard until it germinates a root down far enough. Like if i plant three times the seed depth and put under lights the top of the rockwool dries pretty darn quick and a germinating seed with small taproot is gonna get dry stressed i was thinking.
 
Germinating seeds need heat as well. I put my seeds folded between damp paper towel in a baggie and put them under a heat mat under a paper plate. I found putting the mat directly on the bag was too warm and lost a few seeds as a result.

I think you should germinate in a bag to be honest. If germinating in a seed get the RW thats in contact with the seed wet. Use a pipette and squirt some water in the starter hole you put your seed in. I'd put like 30ml in as water weighs roughly 1g/ml.

Or just use an aerocloner for seeds. Way easier.
 
I do pre soak seeds but only 12-24 hours, was under the impression you can plant seed straight to moist rockwool with zero problemos. Tomato producers in Holland plant thousounds this way, i really want to keep it simple and hassle free.

I have got the propogator in a warmer spot at about 21-23celcius min max and hope thats ok. Its Summer here and although not that hot a heat mat seems a bit overkill as anywhere near my lights is 20celcius and up all day long, i hope this looks ok.2015-06-18 22.38.08.jpg
 
Can i just add that thats a vinyl fake tile floor not a real one and stays warm. Also ive got two mj seeds on the left and three rocket lettuce seeds on the right that will germ in cooler climates than mj. Just wanted to cover all my bases here.
 
firsttimeARE said:
Should work. 21-23C thats like 70-74F

I think ideal is 25C
Click to expand...

If i can just get this round to root and germinate ill be haapy as a bee, ill leave the vents open a bit to allow air exchange at a small rate.

Im looking into a small tent and inline to match my flowering room soon, i just had the right temps in my room already so thought id do it tentless. Few weeks and ill be able to dial temps more exactly and hold them near perfect.

Im all fingers crossed with this one and will work it nearer 25celcius by the time i get my mister in couple days.
 
My bagseeds never sprouted (last batch of bagseeds had less than 50% germ rate so its cool) but lettuce had 100% and i think at least i have got it to root. I know its not cannabis but i seem to have taken my first step and its good practice.

Ive got more germing each with different adjustments to see which is best, even one i just put on top of the cube uncovered.

Main things that have helped are hitting a consistent 24-25°c. Growth shot up at these temps. I still use the propogator but straight under the lights after sprouting and just playing round with daily waterings of 5ml nute water solution. Seems to dry of by 24hours :-)
2015-06-21 11.55.22.jpg
 
2Hearts said:
I presoaked at ph 5.5 for 24hours, shook them dry by flicking them in my hand and then ran fresh 5.5ph 0.6ec nutrient solution through 1.5" rockwool (growth technology cubes) and planted seed.

I didnt know how wet to keep them so left em half wet top dry, you can see the water level on the side which was about a third way up.

All germinated then failed and on inspection the root had halted after a few milimeters into the cube.

I read more and seems i might have had them too wet, should i have flicked em dry till there was very little water left at the bottom and just slightly moist to the touch?

Ive repeated them like this anyway hoping that was my problem but after lots and lots of reading its still unclear how wet or dry to make the cubes. They spend their time in a propogator till they sprout so this means i dont have to water till after they sprout and go under the light.

Any insight would be helpfull and a definative answer based on weight and how dry exactly to make them after wrist flicking em.

They seem really light if i flick all the water out but seem moist no problems. Once they hit lights i plan on using a proper watering timetable but not got that far yet, i have grown soil and soiless many times but now its rockwools time.

Thanks peeps :-)

Pic is first attempt and it died rip View attachment 3442000
Click to expand...



You know you don't have to do any of that at all ?

Simply wet a paper towel, Put it on a plastic plate, spread the seeds out, Get another wet paper towel place it over the seeds, then put another plastic plate on top, store in a cool dark place like inside a kitchen cabinet even.... I ALWAYS germinate this way, same way I was taught in school, and after 2 days, I open it up, and the plant is already growing, about 1" in length, I plant it and by the next day its taking off like lightning... Never actually heard of someone soaking seeds in nutrient mixes, I mean I don't even add nutrients tell they are Matured which is best so I'm a little confused as to what's the purpose of adding the nutrients to the germination process as they really offer 0 benefits, but can cause headaches.

Germinated some bag seed 4 days ago, 8 seeds, Every single seed is thriving :P
 
Deadlytalon2014 said:
You know you don't have to do any of that at all ?

Simply wet a paper towel, Put it on a plastic plate, spread the seeds out, Get another wet paper towel place it over the seeds, then put another plastic plate on top, store in a cool dark place like inside a kitchen cabinet even.... I ALWAYS germinate this way, same way I was taught in school, and after 2 days, I open it up, and the plant is already growing, about 1" in length, I plant it and by the next day its taking off like lightning... Never actually heard of someone soaking seeds in nutrient mixes, I mean I don't even add nutrients tell they are Matured which is best so I'm a little confused as to what's the purpose of adding the nutrients to the germination process as they really offer 0 benefits, but can cause headaches.

Germinated some bag seed 4 days ago, 8 seeds, Every single seed is thriving :P
Click to expand...


Yes i am trialling a few different techniques and i might of come across wrong with certain points. My rockwool get pre soaked in 0.6ec (about 300ppm on a 0.5 conversion) but my seeds get soaked in plain tap water which is below 100ppm (more like 50ppm due to our insoluable bed rock). When seeds planted they are watered with 0.6ec nutes and thats it till they pop.

I dont want to get into the old debate over wether seeds need nutes or not but you cant hurt them with a light feed aka what they get in nature so i would argue that this is not a negative thing. I hope you can agree because school taught me that as soon as photosynthesis creates osmotic root pressure it will uptake and use ferts, that nutrient seed coat dosent last much beyond germination.
 
Anyway guys my lettuce died from underwatering, haha, this along with everyones input has shown me my next step and omg them cubes dry fast under lights in 25°c.

Im really enjoying making these mistakes as its pushing me towards the right way and how you all do it with daily waterings and the right temps.

I ripped open the cube and breathed a sigh of relief as i saw a little taproot all the way down to the base of the cube. Rockwool dose seem to be about correct water managment and getting temps n environment to provide this.

All i got to do now is order more beans as this is hardly the site for lettuce.

:-) :-) :-)
 
2Hearts said:
Yes i am trialling a few different techniques and i might of come across wrong with certain points. My rockwool get pre soaked in 0.6ec (about 300ppm on a 0.5 conversion) but my seeds get soaked in plain tap water which is below 100ppm (more like 50ppm due to our insoluable bed rock). When seeds planted they are watered with 0.6ec nutes and thats it till they pop.

I dont want to get into the old debate over wether seeds need nutes or not but you cant hurt them with a light feed aka what they get in nature so i would argue that this is not a negative thing. I hope you can agree because school taught me that as soon as photosynthesis creates osmotic root pressure it will uptake and use ferts, that nutrient seed coat dosent last much beyond germination.
Click to expand...

They don't need nutes, Nature has already provided all the nutrients for the plant is what I'm getting at, The nutrients are actually stored within the seed, and this is what it feeds on as it germinates. The plant actually feeds on these nutrients, until it breaks the soil, and the leaves are able to start feeding through photosynthesis. That was my point, it already has its nutrients naturally, so adding more may throw off the balance and corrupt the plant.

btw not trying to knock what you're doing, if you find a good nutrient mix to make the seed explode in growth I would love to hear it, just explaining what may be going wrong
 
I read some where intresting that the main seed nutrients are stored in a membrane layer between the seed and shell, we all seen that little sheath that covers the cotyledon, starts of green before turning brown and being shed. Past this source the seedling consumes stored startches in its cotyledons. The amount and access to leaf startches is small and depleted quickly, this is called deficiency too.

Now i fail to have the time to check the validity of this statement but commercial rockwool growers apply a base feed at either planting or sprouting, clones need nutrients on the apperance of roots.

If you care to expand your reasoning then although i dont subscribe to your way i will experiment and give it a chance i.e. ferts vs no ferts, someday soon :-)
 
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