Heat for noobies

Of course I mean that in a fun way. Falling in a pool drunk while saving a drink. Falling in the grass and rolling back to my feet.
Anyway, it's bedtime in my neck of the woods. I believe Heat for Noobies is the topic and I already displayed my flame throwing penis earlier so I'm out!
 
Kingrow1 said:
Bullshit bro, you just made me realise that you and others are confusing good members with bullshit.

You had a chance but really your a fake here, all mouth no skill or science, click bait for keds....!
Click to expand...
Care to compare your grow pics against his?
 
charface said:
I guess Im confused about what were talking about.
Not in the troll way but legitimately. Lol

For me
Root temp matters,
but
Canopy temp also matters because
The more volatile terps will boil off
At fairly low temps. Like I said I try to keep mine under 80

Light bleaching also matters

Its all important.
No?
Click to expand...

Root zone is covered by shade giving very little fluctuation if you have a good thermo controlled extraction setup. Since the root zone temps are easy to keep consistent they partly dictate canopy temps along with mild root to canopy air circulation. Lastly is the correct light distance in order to not bleach/heat stress upper leaves and burn terps like you pointed out. You don't need a canopy level thermometer, since canopy temp is a by product of getting every thing else right. The leaves will heat stress or light bleach/tire differently set-up to set-up, strain to strain, climate to climate so chasing linear canopy temp read outs is less than useful. The best way to figure out new lights/strain is during stretch. As they grow closer, watch the leaves until you see early heat stress signs. Then you know the setup+strain limit for heat stress. During flower, watch carefully for leaves that brighten up or begin to yellow out early, around week 5. Then you know if the light intensity is tiring leaves out too soon or in spots. Using canopy temp read outs as a guide will not reach the limit of your setup.

The biggest issue with trying to use canopy temp read outs as a guide is that no canopy is perfectly flat or even in coverage. Air circulation is also never going to be perfectly consistent across canopy. This creates fluctuations that are better read visually by leaf responses over various parts of the canopy. If you don't know what early heat/light stress looks like and also don't know the general distance limits of your lights/strains then you can't do this and are probably losing yield. Canopy temps can be good but that does not mean your lights are close enough.
 
Flowki said:
Root zone is covered by shade giving very little fluctuation if you have a good thermo controlled extraction setup. Since the root zone temps are easy to keep consistent they partly dictate canopy temps along with mild root to canopy air circulation. Lastly is the correct light distance in order to not bleach/heat stress upper leaves and burn terps like you pointed out. You don't need a canopy level thermometer, since canopy temp is a by product of getting every thing else right. The leaves will heat stress or light bleach/tire differently set-up to set-up, strain to strain, climate to climate so chasing linear canopy temp read outs is less than useful. The best way to figure out new lights/strain is during stretch. As they grow closer, watch the leaves until you see early heat stress signs. Then you know the setup+strain limit for heat stress. During flower, watch carefully for leaves that brighten up or begin to yellow out early, around week 5. Then you know if the light intensity is tiring leaves out too soon or in spots. Using canopy temp read outs as a guide will not reach the limit of your setup.

The biggest issue with trying to use canopy temp read outs as a guide is that no canopy is perfectly flat or even in coverage. Air circulation is also never going to be perfectly consistent across canopy. This creates fluctuations that are better read visually by leaf responses over various parts of the canopy. If you don't know what early heat/light stress looks like and also don't know the general distance limits of your lights/strains then you can't do this and are probably losing yield. Canopy temps can be good but that does not mean your lights are close enough.
Click to expand...
Ahh,
When I think root zone temps I think about not letting the bags contact the floor, beyond that if the room is in check the roots will be fine.

I agree with not needing to monitor
Canopy temps constantly again if the room is in check
But I do spot check the leaf surface with ir.

Maybe I don't need to
But I do
 
Flowki said:
Root zone is covered by shade giving very little fluctuation if you have a good thermo controlled extraction setup. Since the root zone temps are easy to keep consistent they partly dictate canopy temps along with mild root to canopy air circulation. Lastly is the correct light distance in order to not bleach/heat stress upper leaves and burn terps like you pointed out. You don't need a canopy level thermometer, since canopy temp is a by product of getting every thing else right. The leaves will heat stress or light bleach/tire differently set-up to set-up, strain to strain, climate to climate so chasing linear canopy temp read outs is less than useful. The best way to figure out new lights/strain is during stretch. As they grow closer, watch the leaves until you see early heat stress signs. Then you know the setup+strain limit for heat stress. During flower, watch carefully for leaves that brighten up or begin to yellow out early, around week 5. Then you know if the light intensity is tiring leaves out too soon or in spots. Using canopy temp read outs as a guide will not reach the limit of your setup.

The biggest issue with trying to use canopy temp read outs as a guide is that no canopy is perfectly flat or even in coverage. Air circulation is also never going to be perfectly consistent across canopy. This creates fluctuations that are better read visually by leaf responses over various parts of the canopy. If you don't know what early heat/light stress looks like and also don't know the general distance limits of your lights/strains then you can't do this and are probably losing yield. Canopy temps can be good but that does not mean your lights are close enough.
Click to expand...


Best to do both I think. Meter temp and humidity at the canopy and around the room for a baseline range.

And of course watch the plants for signs of stress and make adjustments. Main thing is happy productive plants.

The canopy sensors tell me when things are changing at a glance from my living room couch. I hang a display for the canopy outside the flower room in view.
 
MichiganMedGrower said:
Best to do both I think. Meter temp and humidity at the canopy and around the room for a baseline range.

And of course watch the plants for signs of stress and make adjustments. Main thing is happy productive plants.

The canopy sensors tell me when things are changing at a glance from my living room couch. I hang a display for the canopy outside the flower room in view.
Click to expand...
If you have the technology why not glance at it.

I really see no harm coming from this and if it gives you piece of mind, bonus.

Actually in some circumstances it could be an early indicator that someones exhaust fan and/or light are off due to a problem.

If you can glance and see that temp is way out of the expected range for the time of day you can get yer ass off the couch and fix it.

I didn't explain that very well but.
Hopefully you can see my points.
 
charface said:
If you have the technology why not glance at it.

I really see no harm coming from this and if it gives you piece of mind, bonus.

Actually in some circumstances it could be an early indicator that someones exhaust fan and/or light are off due to a problem.

If you can glance and see that temp is way out of the expected range for the time of day you can get yer ass off the couch and fix it.

I didn't explain that very well but.
Hopefully you can see my points.
Click to expand...


That happened the other night. I noticed my temp was climbing past 80. A circulation fan had failed.

I don’t know why any grower would be angry about monitoring canopy temps.
 
MichiganMedGrower said:
That happened the other night. I noticed my temp was climbing past 80. A circulation fan had failed.

I don’t know why any grower would be angry about monitoring canopy temps.
Click to expand...
You have my interest at this point.
Periodically a light mover fails and the only way I figure it out is when I pop in for the day, but it may have been sitting there for hours by then.
This could help me monitor that
 
charface said:
You have my interest at this point.
Periodically a light mover fails and the only way I figure it out is when I pop in for the day, but it may have been sitting there for hours by then.
This could help me monitor that
Click to expand...


They make remote wireless temp/hygrometers. You get a base unit and can add sensors.

Or I guess now smart phone apps and sensors probably available.

I’m old school. I ran the wire to the sensor closest to the door right through and hung the monitor outside.

FCFA7F92-B302-4408-95E0-D4A5FE9F7C31.jpeg

Curtain in front of door to add extra bug and light protection.
 
MichiganMedGrower said:
They make remote wireless temp/hygrometers. You get a base unit and can add sensors.

Or I guess now smart phone apps and sensors probably available.

I’m old school. I ran the wire to the sensor closest to the door right through and hung the monitor outside.

View attachment 4171990

Curtain in front of door to add extra bug and light protection.
Click to expand...
Yeah, im sure you can get as fancy as you want, probably get a text if ranges get out of whack I expect.
 
MichiganMedGrower said:
Best to do both I think. Meter temp and humidity at the canopy and around the room for a baseline range.

And of course watch the plants for signs of stress and make adjustments. Main thing is happy productive plants.

The canopy sensors tell me when things are changing at a glance from my living room couch. I hang a display for the canopy outside the flower room in view.
Click to expand...

You can gage canopy temps by leaf health. What you can't really gage is root zone temps, not till real damage is being done. Too much emphasis is on canopy temps while it's root zone temps that are far more important. With 3 to 4f+ plants and hps, root temps can drop below 60 while canopy temps can be above 70 (hps) if you don't have automatic airflow regulation. That means less uptake and nutrient lock outs.

With shorter plants and poor root to canopy zone airflow (in a tent for example) root zone temps can get too high. Evap will see big humidity spikes for possible mold while plants will need more water risking over feeding/wilt stress etc.

If a new grower or a person strapped on cash only has access to one therm unit it is by far more important to use that therm to maintain root zone temps. Visual gage can be made on canopy temps by light distance>leaf health.

If you have two therm then yes, use one for canopy level but the real purpose that serves is humidity levels (assuming humidity reader built in). Humidity spikes a lot more with out side climate and off setting dehue will be needed on manual units.


Your out of room monitoring of temps to aid in unit failure is a good point, it isn't exclusive to canopy temps though. If you are curious for canopy temps go ahead. I'm just pointing out the importance of root zone temps for people who don't know, and explaining why canopy temps don't need to be obsessed over (not you personally).
 
Flowki said:
You can gage canopy temps by leaf health. What you can't really gage is root zone temps, not till real damage is being done. Too much emphasis is on canopy temps while it's root zone temps that are far more important.
Click to expand...
If ones leafs look good then almost 100 percent of the time the root zone temp is just fine. If your canopy temps are locked in then your root zone temps are well within range. Other then straight water as a medium, most problems occur with root zone being to cold. Canopy temps are #1 priority 100 percent of the time. Its basic gardening.

You guys may be going off because you dislike what the op says from time to time.
 
a mongo frog said:
If ones leafs look good then almost 100 percent of the time the root zone temp is just fine. If your canopy temps are locked in then your root zone temps are well within range. Other then straight water as a medium, most problems occur with root zone being to cold. Canopy temps are #1 priority 100 percent of the time. Its basic gardening.

You guys may be going off because you dislike what the op says from time to time.
Click to expand...

Nothing to do with the OP, just my general opinion of the over emphasis on canopy temps. Root temps > canopy.

Happy leaves are not happy roots, or else how do deficiency, lock outs and toxicity issues build.

What you stated isn't true at all. Canopy temps can be within range but root temps low, hps is the prime suspect for this issue with many people using low cold intake>high out take. Just like a deficiency or over feeding it can take days or weeks to show an effect depending on how severe or duration of a cold snap etc. Root temps can be low but not low enough to effect leaf health.. but it will effect uptake thus reducing yield. Using a high intake point during winter reduces cold snap potential on roots, I recommend it if you have to bring in outside air direct. It gives the air some time to fall over light units>canopy to mix and warm up, rather than going cold direct to closest pots. If root to canopy air circulation is good you can do that year round.. meaning those pots closest to your intake will not suffer temp swings all the time and will feed at much the same rate as the other plants, assuming same cuttings etc.

With led higher ambient is used so the issue can become the reverse, pots dry faster, need more watering and run the risk of build ups if you feed too heavy on ppm. Humidity spikes/mold become a concern too.

Canopy temp is basic gardening, I do agree with that.
 
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