Discussion in 'Rollitup Advertisers' started by GreenleafNutrients, Jul 28, 2017.
Seems to be holding steady now
i'm hoping so but it is starting to go down a bit now vs going up on days 1 to 3.
how much up and down are you seeing over a week?
I've experienced no more than .3 climb over a few days but I've been topping off with dehu water at pH of 5.0 so I cant really give a fair assesment as I'm sure thats bringing it down. I'm to the point where I'm going to have to start topping off with ph'd tap water since I cant let it get any lower than it currently is now @ 5.8.
well, last day before res change
day 6: pH 5.41 added 6 drops up, pH 5.58
@HydroRed @ChaosHunter not sure what to think. it goes up in the beginning, stabilizes a bit, then drops towards the end. don't know why my results are so different from you guys.
@GreenleafNutrients any thoughts? i did find out there are no pH buffers in GH ph products so going up or down after sitting in RO water is normal per the rep I spoke with.
Hmmm...I get the going up and stabilizing, but the drop? I would think the buffers in MC would be sufficient for stablizing, even more so in RO as a stand alone?
that's exactly what maxibloom or floranova do. set pH on day 1, it goes up to mid 6's, reset and then it stays stable for a week.
me too. it's done this same drop in both RO and now well water.
I think it was @cat of curiosity had the exact same issue with RO?
yep, we both saw the same drop with RO. and it dropped like a rock at day 4 for both of us.
these nutes "may" be good but they are not pH stable. 2 members using these nutes have the same issues. out of a sample of maybe 30 growers here.
i've tried to provide @GreenleafNutrients with feedback but they seem dis-interested.
back to what I know works.
We tried to troubleshoot your problem a few months ago, and basically we found it came down to you were having PH problems even without using nutrients, so we pretty much stopped there as something else going on with your system. So I don't really understand why you are are keeping posting now that our nutrients are not PH stable? 99% of our customers are not having ph issues. I noticed 2 other people posting recently about that here in the past few days, but you have been trumpeting loudly around that "our nutes are not stable" they didn't really give much information. In order to troubleshoot a problem we need a lot of information.
first off, ph up and down have no pH buffers in them. at least GH brand does not which is the most popular in the world. so adding pH up (or down) to RO water is never going to remain the same pH. if my pH products were a problem, i would have seen it in the last 7 years using GH, dyna gro, cutting edge solutions, house and garden nutrient line ups.
2 out of maybe 30 growers just on this site have the same exact problem. on day 4 using RO water, the pH drops way out of range on the acidic side (low 5's) @cat of curiosity is the other.
what more info do you need?
i've had the same exact results using RO water and well water using mega crop. pH instability after 4 days.
so why don't you "trumpet loudly" and show us how much data you have collected in your testing of this product using RO water, different well waters, different muni waters. did you sample of muni water from across the US? did you sample different well waters from across the US? RO water should be basically the same so it's irrelevant.
until that time, i stand by my results. twice. your nutes are not pH stable in my system.
I dont think you really understand how pH works. pH stays stable in a system unless something changes it. Based on your comment in bold, it seems like you think that ph just randomly changes for no reason in systems (which is not the case). So the questions we should be asking for you situation, is "what is changing my pH?" I believe you that you are have pH problems, but you were having ph problems without using our nutes also in plain water, so you can't say that our product is causing your problem.
I said it was likely something with your pH up product like 2 months ago, I think you dismissed that response because you have a misconception about how pH works in systems. The concept of "pH stability" in hydroponic nutrients refers to stability in recirculating and recycle type systems, where the plants roots have interaction with the solution and cause change based on nutrient uptake (RDWC/DWC/Flood and Drain/Recirculating systems). The problem you have is based on what you told me, is just in a set reservoir tank that doesn't have interaction with plant roots, (with no interaction with plants or changing ions).
I would like to try to help solve your problem, based on the info so far I think its something to do with PH UP product (which you do not have to use with other brands of nutrients, so that is possibly why other brand are more stable for you.)
how do you explain no pH issues UNTIL i tried your product then? i've had the same setup for about 3 years now.
i just mixed a batch of maxibloom up 4 days ago. the pH has remained within 0.1 of what it was set at 5.8. i just checked it and it's at 5.87
and don't think i'm trying to bad mouth your product but how do you explain another grower having the same exact pH drop after 4 days? are you going to blame their set up too?
and just to clarify one point, you think that adding a few drops of pH up or down to RO will cause the pH to remain stable for days at a time?
and if you look back a few posts, i had to use pH down for the first few days and then pH up for the last day.
care to explain.
since there are no pH buffers in it or RO water.
do you have a chemist on staff that can verify this? because there were about 5 members that all agreed with me that it won't.
you know what, skip it.
i'm done. good luck! happy holidays.
Its impossible to have a productive conversation with you when you are so combative. pH is just a measure of the amount of protons on a solution. It will stay stable unless some outside interaction or force occurs.
The fact that your system was having unstable pH, even with water and without nutrients points to some other unknown factor going on. I would like to help you solve this problem, but it looks like we have pretty much come to an end in discussion.
if u can add back ro ph rises. my plants dont drink enough to add back enough to get perfect. i let a tub with one plant go a month and saw something neat. ph started at 6.1. i let it go, checked every five days...
RO ph 6.9 17ppm (need new diaphragms, filtering mountain well water, but close enough to ''0'' to count)
day 1 ph 6.1
day 5 ph 4.9
day 10 ph 5.3
day 15 ph 5.5
day 20 ph 5.7
day 25 ph 5.8
day 30 ph 6.0
the plant got funky for a week and a half, but leveled out and looked relatively happy for the rest of the test. good roots, nice growth other than the necrosis from ph drift.
i tried again in a 5g single, after 5 days i'm around 4.4 but i haven't topped off with fresh water yet. i will post back with results later, been busy as a fire ant in a flood lately...
well, you drug me back in. i'm not combative, i just think you are wrong.
here's an example:
For example, carbonic acid (H2CO3) is a weak acid. When it is put into solution, a small amount of carbonic acid dissociates into H+ ions and the remaining bicarbonate anion (HCO3-). This increases H+ ion concentration and lowers pH values (toward acidic). The bicarbonate ion is considered a weak base because if there are a lot of H+ ions in solution, it will re-associate (chemically bind) with the excess H+ ions to re-form the weak acid, which reduces H+ ion concentration, bringing pH values up (back toward basic).
they add acid (pH down) and it goes back up. where is the outside interaction or force?
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