General Organics

Do you use tap water or RO water?

Dumb question, i don't think it matters. I use both with it. Even with the RO water the ph doesn't drop dramatically. Unless you add diamon black. That is like 123235145% humic acid and drops the ph a bit.

Tap water seems to shift ph even less due to the hardness of the calcium or something.... But i noticed if I add Cal+Mag first, to the RO water, the PH kinda flats out around 6.

Do you use cal mag? Do you add it first when mixing your solution?

I use the tap water here, but I'm fairly certain it goes through RO too. There's a charge on the bill that says it, and that would explain why the price is so ridiculous for water here.

As far as using Diamond Black and Cal/Mag, yes. I will be using them both.

I'm still confused as to whether I should be PHing my water before mixing the solution, as it says "PHing of the nutrient solution is not necessary." The PH of my tap water is usually like 8ish...pretty damn high...that's why I'm wondering.

When you add Diamond Black, it should lower the PH dramatically, especially if the water is RO. It's 6-8% humic acid.
Calcium should "harden" the water and keep the PH from having any sort of drama.

I too start with 8-8.4 RO water. Add my cal/mag first. Agitate. Add my base. Agitate. Add Additives. Agitate. Add Diamond Black. Add Sub Culture.

Have you considered brewing up some sub cultures?

ThurgoodJ said:

Ok, so you mix straight into your 8-8.4 RO water, and it evens out just from the nutrients?

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When I add the base to the RO water first. Even when I add the Calmag first. I don't know what is right though or if it even matters. Started a poll in the nutrient section to get more opinions.

I have actually considered using the sub-cultures as well, but it would be a first. How easy are they to use? Do you just mix like your nutrients?

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They are super easy to use. Just measure out a quarter teaspoon/per gallon and drop it right into the nutrient solution and agitate. Doesn't effect the ph or anything, but ph adjuster concentrate can kill them. so dilute your ph up or down first if you have beneficial organisms in the nutrient solution

Edit : Now what if I'm feeding every other watering? The normal straight water that I use should still be PH'd correct?

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I like feeding every other watering. My plants show less problems that way. But with coco, i can't just use plain water between feeds, cause apparently that's not good for the coco. Can't site the issue right now, but i read it in urban gardening or something. Whether plain water between feeds is good in coco or not, i have always fed a microbrew between feedings. The microbrew is mainly just micro organisms and carbohydrates/molasses. I look at it as giving my plants gatorade when the rest on the bench. Raise them to be athletes and such

Also, I was going to start feeding this week, but I think I'm gonna wait another week or so. I mixed a 1/2 strength solution up though, before I had changed my mind. Today I poured it out, because I like to use fresh nutes every time i feed, and WOW. This shit stinks! Smelled exactly like rotten eggs and sulfur lol. I hope that's a good thin

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g.
I don't like my nutrients to sit longer than an hour either. Weird, but it's a completely different story to leave it in a bucket with an airstone for circulation. Although the PH of GO is supposed to fluctuate and they recommend not using an air stone. Probably just a cheap circulating pump. You can usually switch those into reverse and pump the top down out the bottom of the pump to keep the water circulating. Circulating the nutrient solution/brewing it, breaks down the organic inputs into something the plants can actually eat like organic nutrients. Also you will be saving you nutrients by leaving it in it's own bucket with constant agitation and making it more available to your plants. bacteria is supposed to multiply, but the fungus is just supposed to be "softened". Not exactly sure what that means, but apparently fungus wont reproduce without the roots being in the picture. You should check out heisenburgs post on breeding beneficials


Start feeding quarter strength. which is like 1-2ml/gallon.

ThurgoodJ said:

I'm definitely gonna pick up the sub-culture packs this week as well. Do I want to start those when I start the 1/4 strength feedings?

I've heard nothing but good about coco, a lot of my friends use it, and I think I want to try it out sometime soon. At the moment I'm using a new soil mix. I usually use Sunshine Mix #4, but they don't sell it at the hydro shop anymore. The guy ended up turning me onto this B'Cuzz Hydromix HP. He claims it's the same exact thing as Sunshine #4 except no vermiculite, which I thought to be a good thing anyways. 70% Canadian Sphagnum Peat/ 30% Perlite. The mix is supposed to be very "airy and porous", but it seems to stay pretty moist for 5+ days. I have some seedlings going into their 4th week and 4th nodes, still in party cups. Gonna transplant to my 3gal bags this week. Are they staying moist for so long, because they're still young and not taking a lot of water yet, or do I not have enough drainage? Watering only once a week seems too little to me. That means I'll only be able to feed every 2 weeks...is this normal for this type of medium?

*One of my buddies mixes a bunch of stuff together with coco for his medium. Not exactly sure what, but like compost, coco, peat, perlite, and some other shit, and he usually has some of the best looking plants I've ever seen. I'm sure that has to do a lot with a bunch of other variables too, but damn.

Also, if I plan to transplant this week, should I just wait to start nutrients until after?

Thanks a lot for all of your help so far CS, really appreciate it.

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Yes, inoculate those roots with sub as soon as you can. Once they start breeding there, thats pretty much eat. Touch up treatments here and there with maybe a cup of microbe brew

Coco combined with subculture is insane. Especially in a root trapping or air pruning container.
Straight coco with nothing in it will retain less water and nutrients/salts. So i've seen why it's been recommended not to water with RO unless you are flushing. Even in alternation with feeding nutrient solution.
Plants will need to be watered more frequently. To store more nutrients in the medium, you can water with a catalyst or use humic or fulvic acid.

Blended coco can retain more water, especially when mixed with peat. Heavy peat mixes doesn't have to be watered but once a week. Plants eat when the medium dries and the roots breath air. So you won't be feeding them as quickly in peat heavy mixes. Straight coco will produce hydroponic like eating. Which is likely why people put coco in fabric pots, set them on grow tray, and have a timer hooked to a water pump in a reservoir to periodically feed them (ie, drip/ebbflo).

There are a ton of blends out there. I admit i keep it simple sometimes and just use a bale of OMRI peat from home depot for 10 bucks, compressed block of 22 gal of cocotek 11 bucks and a bag of earth worm castings for 15(EWC) containing some calcium and iron. Super simple, nothing that is going to mess with my nutrient feed. Blend it by eye, by the container even, but it's just simple back up nitrogen(peat/ewc) and Calcium (ewc).

Just right Xtra tends to be hot shit. As it it's got a damn decent supply of fert already in it. It's got earth worm castings, bat quano, bone char, sub culture, coco, rare earth(i think humic acid), bunch of other stuff... but from my use with it, tended to keep the plant richer than I usually roll. So i just make sure to water lightly with it, or with some half cut(strength) tea.
(Edit: Just right is hot for SEEDLINGS, not full grown plants. i;m losing it.

Edit edit:
Tell me all the nutrients you are using or thinking of using. I just realized i have no idea what your doing and not even bothering to ask. If you don't have the whole line, and don't want to waste twenty bucks on each additive, try the go box for thirty bucks. It has everything in it for sampling. Much of it useless and bottles of stuff already in the base.

also if you want to just play with the loco of coco, cut a bag of anything with a brick or two of coco. You will be amazed. Especially if you use fungus. **Maybe not a bag of rockwool cubes, that would be weird, Rockwools got that high ph BS.

ThurgoodJ said:

I use the tap water here, but I'm fairly certain it goes through RO too. There's a charge on the bill that says it, and that would explain why the price is so ridiculous for water here.

As far as using Diamond Black and Cal/Mag, yes. I will be using them both.

I'm still confused as to whether I should be PHing my water before mixing the solution, as it says "PHing of the nutrient solution is not necessary." The PH of my tap water is usually like 8ish...pretty damn high...that's why I'm wondering.

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never ph your water till after all ingredients have bin mixed and stirred up well then do your ph reading most chemical nutrients have ph bufferes in them if anything if your a soil grow i would invest in ph up

my tap water is 7.6 by the time i mix all my stuff i got a 6.0 ph useing ph up to get her at 6.8

ClosetSafe said:

Edit edit:
Tell me all the nutrients you are using or thinking of using. I just realized i have no idea what your doing and not even bothering to ask. If you don't have the whole line, and don't want to waste twenty bucks on each additive, try the go box for thirty bucks. It has everything in it for sampling. Much of it useless and bottles of stuff already in the base.

also if you want to just play with the loco of coco, cut a bag of anything with a brick or two of coco. You will be amazed. Especially if you use fungus. **Maybe not a bag of rockwool cubes, that would be weird, Rockwools got that high ph BS.

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I already have the whole GO line...and planned on using everything according their feeding chart, including the subcultures now. As far as medium goes, I don't really have a choice but to use up this bale that I bought of B'Cuzz Hydromix HP. Guy at the hydro shop said it had no nutes at all, but it says on the description, "contains starter nutrition to enable initial plant growth." http://www.atami.ca/america/hydromixx/index.html link to the description. I see a lot of experienced soil growers that use Sungro's Sunshine #4 and it looks like they're basically the same, minus vermiculite. SO it can't be too bad.

DrFever said:

never ph your water till after all ingredients have bin mixed and stirred up well then do your ph reading most chemical nutrients have ph bufferes in them if anything if your a soil grow i would invest in ph up

my tap water is 7.6 by the time i mix all my stuff i got a 6.0 ph useing ph up to get her at 6.8

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Hey thanks for the info DrFever. Yea, that's how I've always mixed nutrients and PH'd in past grows, I was just confused when GO said "PHing of the nutrient solution isn't necessary." I already have PH up & down from previous grows, so if it's needed, no big.

i'm pretty sure i'm overloaded and post the same/wrong thing in the wrong thread from time to time. Multi-tasking.....

But do you have the chart that includes Biomarine and Diamond black? Because i can't find that chart. I know i have seen it and it exists. but the one on their site is the one without them too.

anyways, this is basically what i do with Bio marine, Diamond Black, and Bio Weed. BioMarine is can also be a great base nutrient. it's NPK makes it a great back up Base Bloom. I brew a gallon of microbrew WITH an AIRSTONE. I haven't had issues, YET** but i'm pretty sure they recommend a submersible pump and i might switch to that soon. But i use an old dwc bucket and net pot. just wrap the earth worm castings in a cheese cloth and place it in the net pot. it's like a plants growing in there, but it's itty bitty mushrooms.

personally i also add in a carbohydrate. You can just get molasses. Or use the honey in your pantry. but i brew for 48 hours. slap myself for only over night runs. but it happens.

Edit: this is per five gallon bucket. still kinda strong. I'd replace the per gallon with the per gallon of your food at the given life cycle. this is also a great food for cutting your nutrient solution. Usually a cup per gallon, but you will do it by EYE, i know you will... so 70/30 the best you can. You already took the time to measure with a teaspoon one dozen times...
it's easy to figure out which is which, but i'ma do it.
Equal Ratio – Fungi : Bacteria Tea
1.5 pounds (700g) 1:1 fungi to bacteria compost - Ancient Forrest
3-4 tablespoons (45-60ml) humic acids - Diamond Black
4 teaspoons (23g) dry soluble kelp or 2 tablespoons of liquid kelp - BioWeed
3-4 teaspoons (15-20ml) fish hydrolysate - Bio Marine

Edit: if you don't have bacteria fungi compost, get ancient forrest. That shit is the shit. EWC earth worm shit



Edit EDIT: I think i just gave you a brand new base to work out a new base.
Read this: http://urbangardenmagazine.com/2011/02/breeding-microbes-with-compost-tea/

Copy and Pasting for ease.


AncientForest®
soil amendment

Ancient Forest is a natural product consisting of 100% pure forest humus. It is derived from thousands of years of naturally decomposed forest litter that contains a wide spectrum of organic compounds. An incredibly high diversity of microorganisms, with more than 35,000 species of bacteria and over 5000 species of fungi, make Ancient Forest and ideal amendment for gardening and potting soils. Ancient Forest also aids in the retention of water and nutrients, creating stable, long lasting soil for your garden. The immense biological activity also makes Ancient Forest the ideal inoculum for actively aerated compost teas.

AncientForest is available in the following quantities:
• 1/2 Cubic ft bags

It is a bag of nothing but earth worm shit.
Mix some into your mix you got now. It has pretty much all the species of everything you should be able to imagine and some.

Don't bother with BIOMARINE, you already have BioThrive Bloom as an all purpose bloom base... I have heard both arguments for high phosphorus bloom bases and higher potassium bloom bases. I've chosen to stick with high phosphorus in the begining of flowering and giving a kick of potassium in the end. There are high phosphorus bat guano's (shit) that they could have bottled instead of biomarine, but it would have still come from an animal and couldn't have been vegan anyways.

I like bio bud. I think that shit is the tits for potassium kicks. but that's still mid-late flowering. I still like opening up with high phos...

Ok, i don't want you going out and buying something that smells like compressed fish because someone on the internet told you they don't mind the smell and like high phosphorus bloom nutrients during flowering indoors.

Depending on if your medium is only coco, you mentioned it was inert. I will edit back later. But if it is coco. i've read that it's not good to water between feeds. i don't, so i don't remember why.

Instead of: Water, Rest, Feed, Rest, repeat....

I like: Gatorade, rest, Feed, Rest, repeat....

By gatorade, I mean molassasy micro brew. It kinda flushes out crap and brings in some fresh micro organisms. I say gatorade, cause i thought i wanted to treat my girls like pro athletes.

Definitely gonna pick up a bag of Ancient Forest. Heard the same thing about the BioBud from friends, I'm excited to use it.

My medium isn't coco at all, like I was saying. It's a 70% Sphagnum Peat/30% Perlite mix, with some gypsum and dolomite lime.

Edit : With or without coco as my medium, I think I'll be doing the same kinda feeding schedule as you do...ie ; Microbrew (Molasses,Water, Micros), Rest, Feed, Rest, Repeat...

yeah peat is rich in nitro, dolomite lime is rich in cal, gypsum rich in mag.... watering between feeds is what some would recommend. But personally I like a sweet MicrobeBrew. Not to be confused with fox farms "MicrobeBrew" (yes this is the logo for that below.)

dude, i really hope i helped you. good luck.

Thanks bud,

Bubbleicious sounds delicious.
http://en.seedfinder.eu/database/strains/alphabetical/b/

You can find out the lineage of most strains on that website. Check it out. Might find some good reads/seeds.

Edit: I love growing... I don't know why other people come on this website to help other people growing, but off this computer, I don't have anyone to talk to about growing. In the real world, hydroponics is considered a black art. Except for the 15+15soon-to-be states. It's only a matter of time before more states allow growing than states that don't.