flushing w/organics....?

Hello fine farmers.

I am a total newbie. Started my grow by accident almost. Just threw a single bag seed outdoors jack-the-beanstalk style not expecting much only to be given an untamable monster. Despite the newbie abuse she made it to a busy 5ft by 5ft. Now that I'm in mid flower of course everything has gone to crude. I have lost the majority of my fan leaves over the last 3 weeks. It's been almost a month of progressing issues, and since it was an organic set up I had convinced my self that salt build up wasn't the issue. Another reason I convinced myself of this was because a flush would be extremely problematic for me right now. She's outside, in a 25 gallon pot. I live in an apartment with no hose access. I have a kitchen sink w/ filtered water that fills up 1.5gallon watering can in about 3 minutes. I don't have the time to fill 60 gallons of water this way right now (in med school). Further would I also have to pH all that water since my filtered tap is at 8.0? I mean that's just not possible right now. i could speed things up and don't filter, but then I'm concerned the chlorine would obliterate my micro life late into flower.

she's in ocean forest w/~25% perlite. No amendments.
water fed 1 tablespoon of dolomite (30%mg) lime spaced out through a week of waterings about 2 weeks ago

Feeding:
Biobizz biobloom 2.5 tsps/1.5 gallons of water per watering (which is usually everyday because of high heat low humidity)
Biobizz fish mix 0.5tsp/1.5 gallons once a week (used to be every watering)
Used to feed her Algamic (sea weed extract) but it went bad 1 week or so

Anyway. If I flushed with unfiltered tap (not even sure I could pull that off right now) would that wreck my micro herd enough that it wouldn't be worth it and I'd be better off with salt build up and various deficiencies for the last month? Honestly I don't even know if she'll make it to the ideal harvest time. Never done this before so I don't have the best gauge on how bad she is.

Thank you.

You most def over fertilized and caused lock out, but nobody knows exactly what is going on w/o a soil test or something. It's not worth it for one plant that is halfway done... Did you say that you fed with fish EVERY watering on top of FFOF soil and the other bottled stuff... Really, I've seen worse. Just let it go a full 8-9 weeks and you will have decent smoke. Nothing you can do now but water with plain water.

If you want to keep using bottles, I would switch to ProMix or Sunshine#4. Ocean Forrest potting soil can pretty much grow a plant on it's own, but I'm not happy with the results. Ocean Forrest also sucks for using bottle ferts, so I never found it useful. Either dump the bottles or switch the soil.

You said that you live in an apartment, most organic growers start with a worm bin even if they live in an apartment. Worm castings are the most expensive ingredient for most of our mixes if you were to go to the store and buy it. A lot of people on here follow Clackamas Coots. Here is a good list of podcasts and Clackamas is interviewed 3x.

https://www.kisorganics.com/pages/podcast

Outdoor organic is over my pay grade, but as long as I'm here I'll chime in. You look like 1/2 way through flower. And I don't know bio bizz but that doesn't sound like you're over using it, but I say don't flush and just quarter it and slowly up to 1/2 what you use now. I guess keep up the dolomite and smaller amount epsom salt. Yellowing could be normal. I don't know about your micro heard but we're not really talking organic. That's a pretty big ass plant for an accident! Your gonna have plenty of meds doc!

I stopped using fish meal/fish bone meal because it has a lot of phosphorus in it and it will build up in your soil and lock out micro nutrients. After having my compost and potting soil tested for 2yrs, I am very cautious of my P inputs. The only P input that I use now is crab/crustacean meal and that is mostly for chitin. High Phosphorus will cause "iron chlorosis". If you have yellowing and spots, it's a dead give away.

Solis Altilis said:

i could speed things up and don't filter, but then I'm concerned the chlorine would obliterate my micro life late into flower.

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You can let the tap water sit over night and degas the chlorine. If you remember chemistry class, chlorine likes to be in a gas form and it will not stay in water for very long. I'm assuming that you took chemistry for your med degree.

MustangStudFarm said:

I stopped using fish meal/fish bone meal because it has a lot of phosphorus in it and it will build up in your soil and lock out micro nutrients. After having my compost and potting soil tested for 2yrs, I am very cautious of my P inputs. The only P input that I use now is crab/crustacean meal and that is mostly for chitin. High Phosphorus will cause "iron chlorosis". If you have yellowing and spots, it's a dead give away.

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You can let the tap water sit over night and degas the chlorine. If you remember chemistry class, chlorine likes to be in a gas form and it will not stay in water for very long. I'm assuming that you took chemistry for your med degree.

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The leaves yellowing near of the top half of the plant have some of that spotting. The leaves that go on the bottom half of the plant look like classic mg deficiency.

I understand that about chlorine, but I dont have a way to let 60 gallons of water be in open containers for 48 hours. I suppose just leaching the plants a bit instead of a full flush couldnt hurt. I thought they were reasonable doses of the fish mix. I didn’t feed them at all until the first few weeks of flower, nothing for alomst two months. Figured the soil was loosing its juice by then, the plant looked it as well. Feeding first perked her up big time, then things went south. Their fish mix is listed high in nitrogen with no P or k, so i though i was ODing them a bit w/ nitrogen there, then maybe some P with biobloom, locking out the micronutes

MustangStudFarm said:

You most def over fertilized and caused lock out, but nobody knows exactly what is going on w/o a soil test or something. It's not worth it for one plant that is halfway done... Did you say that you fed with fish EVERY watering on top of FFOF soil and the other bottled stuff... Really, I've seen worse. Just let it go a full 8-9 weeks and you will have decent smoke. Nothing you can do now but water with plain water.

If you want to keep using bottles, I would switch to ProMix or Sunshine#4. Ocean Forrest potting soil can pretty much grow a plant on it's own, but I'm not happy with the results. Ocean Forrest also sucks for using bottle ferts, so I never found it useful. Either dump the bottles or switch the soil.

You said that you live in an apartment, most organic growers start with a worm bin even if they live in an apartment. Worm castings are the most expensive ingredient for most of our mixes if you were to go to the store and buy it. A lot of people on here follow Clackamas Coots. Here is a good list of podcasts and Clackamas is interviewed 3x.

https://www.kisorganics.com/pages/podcast

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Thanks. Hopefully I’ll get a chance to do this again, and actaully plan and prepare. It will probably have to be autoflowers of some sort. This plant got way to big for our place.

raggyb said:

Outdoor organic is over my pay grade, but as long as I'm here I'll chime in. You look like 1/2 way through flower. And I don't know bio bizz but that doesn't sound like you're over using it, but I say don't flush and just quarter it and slowly up to 1/2 what you use now. I guess keep up the dolomite and smaller amount epsom salt. Yellowing could be normal. I don't know about your micro heard but we're not really talking organic. That's a pretty big ass plant for an accident! Your gonna have plenty of meds doc!

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Thanks. Yeah i was really surprised, and it was exciting, but I just couldn’t keep up with her effectively. And yeah, i get its not a true organic grow, but im not using any chems since thats the best im capable of right now. Biobizz bottles are supposed to feed the soil, not the plant. But i know its a far cry from making your own soil and brewing compost teas.

I use the "if it's yellow or brown take it down" rule....so the first thing I would do is strip off all those dead/yellowing leaves. Then I'd water (cus it's all you can really do at this point, IMO)...and wait...and see where/what/if more yellow appears. Some of that is natural shit...the plant is using up the N and makin bud....and the old leaves naturally die off.

Cannabis is amazing though. She is on her path...and unless you completely toxify her....she will continue to press on.

Good luck with the finish

Solis Altilis said:

then maybe some P with biobloom, locking out the micronutes

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I misdiagnosed this very problem for a couple of years. I thought that yellow fading was N, but it was chlorosis from micro deficiency. It's too late for a soil drench because micros are not very mobile in plant tissue, so usually foliar spray of micros is about the only way to fix it. However, you don't want to get your buds wet. You can hold a rag behind the fan leaves as you spray them to keep from over spraying. There are several different products for chelated minerals. SEA90, Fertilome's iron & trace minerals, and Biomin Booster 153. I'm sure that there are others...

I've been working on a soil that is low in P for 2yrs now. I found that compost has a very high amount of P, so what a lot of people say on here are very contradictory. They will admit that high phosphorus and nitrogen will keep the root system from producing the signal for root exudes. Therefore, not giving myco fungi any food and keeping myco at a minimum. Then, they want to tell everyone how wonderful compost is. The point is, most everybody on here is lost. All of the good gardeners have left because they got tired of arguing with 19yr old know-it-alls. Just don't expect every person to give you sound advice!!!

Look at my composted rabbit manure. I've been dealing with low micro-nutrients for a long time and I was dumb enough to listen to people on here rather than listen to my gut feeling and get my soil tested. There have been other members that tested their soil and it looks very similar to my results. I didn't understand how important micros were...If you look at the test, it will separate the macro from micros starting with iron.

Stiickygreen said:

I use the "if it's yellow or brown take it down" rule....so the first thing I would do is strip off all those dead/yellowing leaves. Then I'd water (cus it's all you can really do at this point, IMO)...and wait...and see where/what/if more yellow appears. Some of that is natural shit...the plant is using up the N and makin bud....and the old leaves naturally die off.

Cannabis is amazing though. She is on her path...and unless you completely toxify her....she will continue to press on.

Good luck with the finish

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Thanks for the support man. With the leaves it's a hard choice to make. I've been waiting until they are completely and totally yellow before removing them. I know the weak leaves are more prone to allowing disease and pests to set in, but on the flip side, she's draining those leaves for a reason, she needs the nutes in them that she can't get from the soil due to lock out, as long as there is a little green in them there is some nutes left for her to pilage. If I take those leaves too soon, I'm afraid it will actually accelerate the yellowing of new leaves as she continues to look for more nutrients. So I feel don't want to deplete her last reserves that she is desperately mining that she needs to keep those flowers growing. I don't know which is the best way to swing, but since I can't seem to stop the bleeding of leaves I'm hesitant to trim the sick leaves too soon.

MustangStudFarm said:

I misdiagnosed this very problem for a couple of years. I thought that yellow fading was N, but it was chlorosis from micro deficiency. It's too late for a soil drench because micros are not very mobile in plant tissue, so usually foliar spray of micros is about the only way to fix it. However, you don't want to get your buds wet. You can hold a rag behind the fan leaves as you spray them to keep from over spraying. There are several different products for chelated minerals. SEA90, Fertilome's iron & trace minerals, and Biomin Booster 153. I'm sure that there are others...

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Ha. Well I just did a big leach actually. Oh well. Had two classes canceled today and ran home, put some other pressing priorities aside and made time to put 21.5 gallons of filtered water through her. She looks like she liked it, already much less droopy.... But only time will tell if this makes things worse, better, or no difference. Didn't have time to pH either, if that even matters I don't know, hear something different from every one I've talked to, as you say. But it's at 8.0 w/o feed which makes me nervous. But who knows maybe that's what she needs to balance her out.

I can't buy anything right now. But I do have some epsom salts. I know that's only Mg & S but I figured it might help if I do a carefully targeted foliar spray. Been trying to get that done for the last few evenings, but haven't gotten home until late. Plus I've heard that mites don't like epsom salts, but again, I hear you loud and clear about most people not knowing what they don't know. I'm polite and just listen to everything respectfully and try to discard the rubbish to the best of my ability. Ultimately experience will be the true teacher. Believe me I've heard every single explanation of what is wrong with this plant and most of them contradict each other each time. As with all things I am sure it is multifactorial as well.

Back off the nutes and you should be fine.

No flushing, this kills organic plants.

Solis Altilis said:

But I do have some epsom salts. I know that's only Mg & S but I figured it might help if I do a carefully targeted foliar spray.

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I don't know if you would be helping by doing this. I had hippies tell me to use SEA90 for foliar spray which is evaporated sea salt, but it has all of the trace minerals like Fe, Zn, Mn, Cu, and Boron. Liquid kelp would do the same thing. You can make it from kelp meal. I'm not familiar with BioBizz, but do you already have a kelp product? Your looking for something that would say foliar feeding on the bottle... I looked again and it would be this product. You said that it went bad? This would be perfect for a foliar spray.

Solis Altilis said:

Used to feed her Algamic (sea weed extract) but it went bad 1 week or so

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Copy and Paste:
Alg-A-Mic can be used during all stages of growth as an organic stress reliever and to boost the absorption of chlorophyll. It works great at reducing the impact on your plants from common stress factors such as overfeeding, nutrient deficiencies, pests and diseases, and fluctuations in temperature and humidity.

Reducing the stress on your plants frees up more energy for increased growth and yields, whereas an increase in chlorophyll absorption encourages healthy, green, and luscious foliage. BioBizz Alg-A-Mic can be used as both a soil drench and as a foliar spray. Using it as a foliar spray will really help to boost chlorophyll absorption.

Did your problems start after your stopped using this product?

MustangStudFarm said:

Did your problems start after your stopped using this product?

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I had switched to feeding w/my waterings once flowering started and only had an opportunity to foliar feed with them 3 times during the end of veg and they made my leaves look amazing. The problems started a week or so before it went bad BUT the problems significantly spiraled once I stopped using it. It really seemed to be keeping the decline at bay. It actually went bad while i was out of town for 4 days while I was on break. I had the pet sitter watering/feeding the plant with very detailed instructions. When I returned, the plant was much worse and had declined rapidly, and when I took the algamic out to feed her I noticed the algamic had gone brown, it was nice and green when I left, so I tossed it. I don't know if she left the cap off or took it outside and left there or what, but I'm sure she also fed the plant with bad algamic at least a couple times and I'm sure that did not help things at all either. Really, really wish I still had it.

Dmannn said:

Back off the nutes and you should be fine.

No flushing, this kills organic plants.

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Don't some people add a little sulfurized molasses to help the microbes? I haven't tried it yet, so I don't know how much to add.

That's funny. In UK they have to go to a health food store to buy molasses. Poor sods.

So maybe don't, maybe. How much mollasses? -> https://www.rollitup.org/t/mollases-question.273477/

But do get a shoo fly pie recipe and make some. Mmmmmmmm

raggyb said:

Don't some people add a little sulfurized molasses to help the microbes? I haven't tried it yet, so I don't know how much to add.

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Yes you can add a about 2 tablespoons of molasses and dilute in 5 gallons of filtered water with some sort of bacterial inoculant