DWC/Bubbleponics root problems(?)

Discussion in 'DWC/ Bubbleponics' started by Prismo, Nov 10, 2017.


    Prismo Member

    Alright, so the new air pump came and I connected it just now. The bubbling has toned down quite a bit, but now I'm afraid that it might not be enough. Here, have a look: https://ufile.io/zxb4k

    I'm gonna change the water when the lights turn back on later and I'm gonna report here if my ladies are getting better.

    Victor6634 Well-Known Member

    Your nutes are too high you should be around 300-350 ppm
    drgreentm likes this.

    HydroRed Well-Known Member

    Your pic link didn't work, but let me make sure I'm on the same page as you still. You are in buckets with bucket top net pots & hydroton medium with no drip feed -correct? If so, keep the water lever about 0.5" to 1" (1.27 - 2.54cm) under the bottom of the net pot. The closer the better without it touching or being submerged. Those bubbles will burst just underneath the basket over a duration of time & will be sufficient to keep the medium wet but breathable. Similar to that of a bubble cloner. We just gotta make sure that in the process of doing this the roots in the res aren't getting beat up too bad which from your last reply seems as though it may have gotten better?

    Prismo Member

    Yeah, I will be changing the water later today and flush it through for 1-2 days without nutes and then start slowly again.

    Well, that link was a video I made, weird that it doesn't work. Sadly, I can't upload videos here. The bubbling is really good to see on a video compared to a picture. Any ideas on how I might be able to show the video to you?

    And yeah, afaik I'm using no drip feed, if the bubbleponics method isn't considered a drip feed, I don't know about all the terms for growing yet. I direct water via a pump into the hydroton at the bottom of the net pot, so far it seems to be keeping the hydroton and the rockwool cube moist but not wet, but I'm not sure. The tubing from the pump isn't touching the bottom of the rockwool cube.
    Are you sure I should raise the water level? I've read somewhere that you should keep this much of a gap between net pot and water level so the roots above the water surface have much room to breathe. And I shouldn't be needing the moisture from the bubbles for the hydroton if my additional pump keeps it and the roots above the water moist, right?

    The roots seem to be fine now, but as I said, I'm not sure if there's too little air now. The video should really help you out here, how do we do it?

    HydroRed Well-Known Member

    No dont raise the res level then.
    I'm sorry, I though you were running like a bubble ponic setup and you rely on the bubbling in the res to keep the medium wet. I didnt know you had a feed pump. Either way, you had too much bubbling going on in the res and it was destroying the roots and causing funk in the res. You just need enough bubbles to keep the water in the res active and aerated. Without seeing the video I'm sure its good how you have it now since it doesnt take much.

    Prismo Member

    Oh, sorry, might have forgotten to add that little detail. But yeah, I have a feed pump keeping it moist. Indeed there was too much bubbling going on and I need to thank you again because without your advice, I really think I would have missed this crucial error and ended up with either dead or very tiny ladies!

    Now, with the smaller air pump, there are obviously much less and much smaller bubbles, but the water surface is still being gently agitated. The roots will need some time now to grow straight down, because the violent bubbling from before kind of bent them outwards.
    I also think that the h2o2 did its job and I will now change the water and let the ladies sit in pure pH water for 1-2 days until I will add the starter dosage of nutes that I used in week 1 and then observe how it will go.
    HydroRed likes this.

    Prismo Member

    Alright, so I'm on the brink of going mental about this.

    Overnight the pH went up from about 5.8 to about 7.8 in both reservoirs. I have no idea how or why. Also, both reservoirs smell different now, it's still an unpleasant smell and it wasn't there yesterday. To be honest, it smells like a combination of a gentle fart and starch. On top of that, there's some slimy residue all around the wall of the buckets where the water surface is. This residue looks like wet starch and it has virtually no smell. Furthermore, one of the reservoirs has become quite milky but you can still see to the bottom.
    The worst thing though: There are STILL root parts floating around and I'm pretty sure that they haven't been there after I changed the water yesterday...

    What is happening? And why did the pH skyrocket? I've used the same stuff (GH pH down) and this has not happened before. Is it because I haven't added nutes? I'm at a loss here...

    HydroRed Well-Known Member

    Most nutrients contain buffers that keep the pH pretty steady. Without nutes in the water it will fluctuate a lot very quickly.
    Did you clean your bucket and quick flush your hydroton before refilling the res? If not, thats why its back. Or you have some other environmental issue that hasn't been remedied yet. Your likely gonna have some root material floating in there for a spell since you were/are dealing with root rot.
    Did you use anything in the straight water to fight the bacteria/slime?

    Prismo Member

    Alright, I thought so about the nutrients, but I wasn't expecting this much and this quick of a change.

    No, I actually didn't pay much attention to cleaning up after I emptied the buckets. To be frank, I don't have any means of securing the lids of the buckets enough to be able to thoroughly clean the buckets. Also, how should I clean the pumps and air plates? Probably rinsing them overnight or something, but if so, how will I keep the ladies alive until I can put the air plates back in place? On top of that, the tubings/cables are also stained on the outside, but this has been for a long time. I feel like I would have to pick the whole equipment apart to be able to satisfy my desire to absolutely clean everything, if the chance is given. I know I probably should, but I don't want to lose the time I've already invested now. Would it be enough to just empty the buckets and then clean every surface you can reach with h2o2?
    Also, how should I rinse the hydroton? Wouldn't I need to empty the pots for that?

    I've only added the hydroguard and pH down to the water yesterday.

    HydroRed Well-Known Member

    You gotta be really clean with your gear -specially when you get some root rot/slime. Wash your res, pumps,pump filters, T fittings etc and rinse in 10 ml of bleach per gallon of water. Let your pumps & bubble stones sit in the rinse water for 10 min or so. Run your pump in the rinse water before you pull it out just to make sure the inside of the pump is clean and sterilized. I always just replace all of my air tubing and hose for my F&D since you can never get it clean and its too inexpensive not to.
    Rinse your hydroton in the netpot with a gallon or so of 3% h2o2/water at a 20/80 ratio then dump, clean and sterilize your res, pumps etc.
    Thats one thing you need to be up on with hydroponics is the cleanliness and maintenance practices.

    Prismo Member

    Is it even worth it when my res temps are constantly at 24-25°C ? I'm just overthinking the fact that in the conditions I grow combined with the water temps, I'm just bound to have this problem reoccur all the god damn time...

    My grow space has (my) hair, dust and dirt all over it and the whole setup is not particularly clean. It's just a very small space in a room I didn't really clean THAT well, outfitted with a wooden separating wall and panda foil and aluminium tape all over the place. There are holes and gaps here and there and the panda foil is being pushed away from the wall everywhere due to the air exhaustion creating underinflation. Air intake is just 2 holes connected to pipes leading to a window and there is very fine anti-allergic screen on the end of these pipes so nothing from the outside makes it into the grow space, but every time I open the door to the grow space, shit flies in anyway I guess.
    I don't know man. What's your honest opinion, considering I'm a rather dirty (I'm disgusting here and there, which reflects in the condition of my apartment) and very lazy bastard? Should I just cancel this run, clean everything up as you said, get a chiller and try again or should I just clean everything up now and hope for the best?

    HydroRed Well-Known Member

    You're already in at this point so I wouldnt scrap it, but just run the H2o2 since it was working. Not sure why you seem so adamant about going back to the thing you keep having problems with. If the H2o2 was working....keep running it. But since you currently have bacterial issues, your gonna need to clean everything up and get sterilized to continue with what you have. If thats seems like too much, I'd suggest soil grows.

    Prismo Member

    Well, I know that treating it with h2o2 will only prolong the problem and just reduce the risk. It's kind of like a race you just can't win. That being said, I really think, as you also said, it's probably the only choice right now. The cost won't be too high, too. When this batch survives and is done, I'm going to get a chiller, though.

    By the way, what do you think about brewing a tea? As I said before, I was relying on what almost everyone else said. They said that if you have a problem with high temps in the res, beneficials should be the only way to go if you actually want to keep things under control. Maybe this could also be a possible solution?

    Anyway, how would I go by with continuing the h2o2 treatment? I'm asking you again just to make sure that I got it and not fuck something up... again...

    rkymtnman Well-Known Member

    have you thought about trying chlorine instead of peroxide?

    Prismo Member

    No, and I don't consider it. Constantly trying to sterilize the res with h2o2, although an entirely sterile res is impossible anyway, is already enough experimentation for my taste. I absolutely and strongly dislike this anyway, but apparently beneficials (hydroguard) can't handle my res for whatever reason (or it can't handle the state the res is in right now). I'm just trying to cope with it now until I have the finances to get a chiller and not have to "expect" problems to occur anymore.

    rkymtnman Well-Known Member

    oh well, it works well and is actually a nutrient that the plant uses too. win/win.
    chiller is never a bad investment.
    drgreentm and HydroRed like this.
    J Henry

    J Henry Active Member

    Rocketman is no more than a flashy pseudo-guru and a simple dirt farmer. He doesn’t know jack about this. He is funny in an odd way when he’s all wired up on a full head of chemicals. Rocket hallucinates often, imagines and tries to act like some sort of expert. He has pics to prove it too… I did a Google Search with Rocket’s pics… and guess what I found?

    Pay no attention to the Rocket when he’s a’rolling.
    70's natureboy

    70's natureboy Well-Known Member

    I guess it's just impossible to run DWC with high res temps. No way around it.
    J Henry

    J Henry Active Member

    That’s exactly what the water chiller salesmen claim in their sales pitch too, “No way around it.” The chiller salesman claims that if your water is not cold, your dissolved oxygen will be low and your plant roots will suffocate from low oxygen insults.

    Dudes have brains, even the popular pseudo-guru “Rocketman” has a brain, albeit his tiny brain is about the size of a small dog brain, think about this cold water logically… if plant roots need more oxygen, why not simply give those plant roots more oxygen.

    If your plant roots feel bad, look sick, are hot and sweating then give them cold water, buy yourself a good $400 water chiller from your friendly water chiller salesman and chill those roots and microbes.

    Slow down their metabolism/growth, soak them in cold water, numb them with hypothermic water.

    But, how in the world would you ever know if your reservoir DO is really low, unsafe until your cannabis roots suffocate and you wake up one morning and see and smell the fungal outbreak happening in real time? Of course you wouldn’t know until the crisis happens.

    There’s only “Hope,” like little Hope, Arkansas, a few miles NE of Texarkana, TX on I-30 where “Slick Bill Willy” and Mike Huckabee was spawned and grew up.

    And then comes that stark realization that all your efforts have really failed to insure minimal safe oxygenation for your plant roots. Now that discovery will definitely blow your dress up over your head for sure when you see and smell that mess in the box… a few of you know exactly what I’m talking about and all of you DWC/RDWC growers constantly worry/tither about the possibility of a low oxygen crop failure like this.

    Never, ever confuse the most important vital nutrient called elemental oxygen (O2) with ambient air or cold water or bigger water pumps will that pump more water or bigger air pumps that pump more air, this bubble rock or that ambient air venture device attached to a water pump.

    rkymtnman Well-Known Member

    hey everybody, it's Miss Henry, our resident saleswoman for o2grow.com

    didn't you say that you don't grow and you don't like people that use marijuana? wonder why you are here so much
    i'm guessing maybe you are affiliated with law enforcement in some way??

    warning to others: i'd be careful of this old guy.

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