Democrats, Republicans and the Crisis of Legitimacy

since1991

since1991

Well-Known Member
I would like to know just exactly how lower corporate tax rates stir economic growth and opportunity for the vast majority of Americans who have little to do with Wall Street.
 
Bugeye

Bugeye

Well-Known Member
since1991 said:
I would like to know just exactly how lower corporate tax rates stir economic growth and opportunity for the vast majority of Americans who have little to do with Wall Street.
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Imagine a country that taxes corporate profits at 100% and a neighboring country that taxes corporate profits at 0%. Which country will have higher job growth, all else equal?
 
since1991

since1991

Well-Known Member
Bugeye said:
Imagine a country that taxes corporate profits at 100% and a neighboring country that taxes corporate profits at 0%. Which country will have higher job growth, all else equal?
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Trickle down supply side economics hasnt done much for the majority of regular Americans. Thats a fact. We have been steadily lowering the corporate tax rate in America since the Reagan 80's. And it hasnt done shit for job growth. What sounds good doesnt translate all that well in reality. There is very little to ZERO evidence to support the idea that lowering coporate tax rates creates jobs. What really creates jobs are alot of regular folks with purchasing power (spending a decent paycheck they got on Friday on a Saturday afternoon). Another fact. Not many have decent paychecks if a paycheck at all these days. A 10 dollar an hour wage service economy cant purchase much no matter how cheap product prices can get. How does lowering corporate tax rates change that? It hasnt yet. And it wont because its bullshit.
 
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Bugeye

Bugeye

Well-Known Member
since1991 said:
Trickle down supply side economics hasnt done much for the majority of regular Americans. Thats a fact. We have been steadily lowering the corporate tax rate in America since the Reagan 80's. And it hasnt done shit for job growth. What sounds good and looks good on paper doesnt translate all that well in reality.
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OK, how did our corporate tax rates compare to those of other countries during this period? I could agree or disagree with your position and find "facts" to support either position. To me, supply side economics describes capitalism, which I believe has lifted more people out of poverty than any other system. So you and I likely have won't agree based on our confirmation biases. If you want to make our corporate taxes the highest in the world, I fear you would not get the long term results you are hoping for. I could be wrong. I don't see economics as black and white, more like a million shades of grey.
 
since1991

since1991

Well-Known Member
What I can't fathom is how proponents of trickle down supply side economics can still defend it as viable to a robust thriving economy for ALL a nations citizenry. Facts are facts. And trickle down/lower corporate taxes is complete and utter horseshit.
 
Bugeye

Bugeye

Well-Known Member
since1991 said:
What I can't fathom is how proponents of trickle down supply side economics can still defend it as viable to a robust thriving economy for ALL a nations citizenry. Facts are facts. And trickle down/lower corporate taxes is complete and utter horseshit.
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I like Milton Friedman and would not characterize his economic positions as you do. I respect that you have different views than I do. We just disagree.
 
since1991

since1991

Well-Known Member
All it does it create fat dividends for Wall Street players. For what? So a very few can buy bigger yachts? A few people buying bigger yachts does not a thriving economy make. Period!!! Sure...the bigger yacht buyer is happy. So happy he can influence Wahington politicians and the media (which voters and potential Milton Friedman proponents take in) with all that cash to keep the train rolling.
 
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Bugeye

Bugeye

Well-Known Member
since1991 said:
All it does it create fat dividends for Wall Street players. For what? So a very few can buy bigger yachts? A few people buying bigger yachts does not a thriving economy make. Period!!! Sure...the bigger yacht buyer is happy. So happy he can influence Wahington politicians and the media (which voters and proponents take in) with all that cash to keep the train rolling.
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I enjoyed Capitalism and Freedom and Free To Choose, both books my M. Friedman. I can't say you describe them accurately so I'll just say if you would like to learn more on the positions you misrepresent, both are excellent reads. No worries if you are not interested. Have a great day!
 
since1991

since1991

Well-Known Member
Bugeye said:
I enjoyed Capitalism and Freedom and Free To Choose, both books my M. Friedman. I can't say you describe them accurately so I'll just say if you would like to learn more on the positions you misrepresent, both are excellent reads. No worries if you are not interested. Have a great day!
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I have read alot of books by Friedman. And I was a card carrying active member of the Libertarian Party for years. Until I woke up.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Bugeye said:
I have demonstrated that our federal tax system is progressive. You should concede the point and apologize, or disprove me.

Dividends and cap gains are taxed at lower rates to drive capital formation, which drives growth. You are welcome to argue for higher taxation here but it will slow growth, no free lunch.

I think I'm done with your dismissive attitude for today. Best wishes to you.
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You're the one being dismissive because for some strange reason you refuse to acknowledge that wealthy people make their money not through wages but through dividends, asset appreciation and capital gains, all of which are taxed at vastly lower rates than wages. It's called 'unearned income' for a reason, and that reason is taxes.

Contrary to your attempt to label my comments, I'm being anything but 'dismissive'; I'm backing my assertions with specific, verifiable examples.

People hate being wrong, I get that. I'm not trying to tell you that you're stupid- far from it! I'm calling attention to a system that has been systematically misrepresenting itself to Americans and who has managed to fool you into thinking a very incomplete picture is representative of all the relevant facts.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
since1991 said:
Either or. Both really. For a dose of lefty points of view. And yes I read books by alot of economists. Not that hard.
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The more educated you are on the workings of the system, the more you understand who benefits and who is being gamed by it.

I applaud your diligence and I would suggest you include nakedcapitalism.com in your reading. I find both the articles and the links informative and I especially treasure the comments section, full of insightful perspectives on those very topics by those who have spent years in the relevant positions.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Bugeye said:
Imagine a country that taxes corporate profits at 100% and a neighboring country that taxes corporate profits at 0%. Which country will have higher job growth, all else equal?
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Funny how America had its best years of job growth when corporations had high tax rates. Or is looking at historical data not good enough for you?

Low taxes increases the value of the corporations themselves but does nothing for job growth. Corporations are demonstrating this even now but using their recent tax savings to fund stock buyback programs, enriching shareholders and executives with options, but not encouraging job growth in any way.

I applaud your interest in economics but it's clear that you haven't delved into the subject deeply enough to challenge your internal assumptions.

Think about it this way; if you were right, why are more Americans employed at ever lower wages while wealth and income inequality are growing at historically high rates?
 
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