Curly, Rusty n' Pale.. Ruhh Rohh

My Name is Mike

Well-Known Member
Day 17 veg
Indoor cab grow, 2 waterfarms, 200w cob led @90% 24" above. Temps 84 light on, 42% RH

PH 6.5, PPM 260 with nutes @ 1/4tsp/2gallons nova bloom. Start with Spring water @80 PPM

Just started using AN PH down 2 days ago, few drops at a time to settle PH. Was around 7.5-7.8 4 days ago.

My blueberry OG plant has a micro dot of rust on middle of 1 leaf and the majority of larger leaves are curling in and leafs are turning downwards.

Any thoughts?
 

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Tim1987

Well-Known Member
G'day Mike.

Iv'e only used a waterfarm once or twice. But i feel as though i can definitely give some advice.

Firstly the plants look good, and you're keeping the ppms low, which is great in my opinion.

I'll list what i believe i can see -

Raise your humidity just a touch. About 50% but keep it less than 60%. If i'm not mistaken Blueberry likes its humidity, and yours looks a little dry. Leaf curl, serrations turning upward etc.

Lower your ph to 6 or so, even a touch lower. But keep it above 5.5, and always let it swing to 6.5 before topping off the ph. When ph is too high, it'll lock things like iron and molybdenum out. Molybdenum deficiency can look quite strange, almost variegated or mosaic at times. At a guess id say those faint spots you speak of is what they are the start of. Iron causes chlorosis. But i can't see any obvious iron deficiency.
Good news is both these will be more available by just lowering the ph slightly. This is why its important to let the ph drift. So there's balanced nutrition.

Also id personally raise your ppms a little. 50 - 100ppms extra should be plenty i think. They do look a little pale. But i believe its a good type of pale not a bad one. Looks to me like they're generally hungry not locked out. Its a good thing, and a healthy sign.
Please lower your ph a little first of all, and leave it a day or two before adding more nutrient. It may only be ph related. So find out first.
If they havn't started greening right up in a few days, then if you havn't already add just a smidgeon of calmag to your reservoir.

Make sure you have plenty of air supply to your reservoir, and lots of beneficial microbes. Keep the reservoir temps ideally below 21'C too. But no lower than 18'C.

Maybe, just maybe try dimming your cob a touch too. Leaves twisting and over turning like your Blueberry can often be light related. I'm betting being Blueberry its humidity related, because your other plant looks pretty good really. But just keep the light in mind, incase higher humidity doesn't fix the issue.

Good luck Mike.
Happy growing. Your plants are looking pretty healthy.
Hope some of this helps you.

Take it easy,

Tim.

:peace:

If things still dont improve after a few days, post back here with your NPK%, and supplements etc. Generally bloom nutrients aren't ideal early on because of higher pk content, and lower N. But sometimes they're fine. So i wouldn't worry about it too much right now.
Keep us all updated, and I'm sure some water culture growers here will give you some advice as well.
 
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My Name is Mike

Well-Known Member
Tim, wow thank you very much for that write up. I appreciate all that information as it is incredibly helpful and detailed.

The first 14 days, my PH was mid to high 7s so I knew at some point it was going to be visible. I've been patient adjusting the PH as I'm still looking for that sweet spot. It's extremely concentrated so I'm nervous to overdue it but I've only had it for few days.

I'm glad you mentioned light because I wasn't sure when to turn it up. I went from 50% to 90% over 2 days which may have been too drastic. I'll dim it down to around 75-80% just in case. My pump is meant for up to 150gallon tank, so running these 2 waterfarms I'm hoping is enough.

I agree with PPM and most definitely once PH is controlled, I will feed em a lil bit more. I have cal mag on the way. Should be here Thursday so I'll have that on hand. I'll be using my tap moving forward as it comes in at 120ppm which I think may help with what the spring water lacks.

I need to switch the timing so lights are on during the night, which is a cooler environment for the cab to keep temps lower. I'll be doing this when I flip.

That leaves humidity which I'll work on next. Thanks for affirming my plants health. First grow, so I'm taking in all what I can but it's helpful to hear I'm doing okay.

Cheers my friend!
 

Tim1987

Well-Known Member
Tim, wow thank you very much for that write up. I appreciate all that information as it is incredibly helpful and detailed.

The first 14 days, my PH was mid to high 7s so I knew at some point it was going to be visible. I've been patient adjusting the PH as I'm still looking for that sweet spot. It's extremely concentrated so I'm nervous to overdue it but I've only had it for few days.

I'm glad you mentioned light because I wasn't sure when to turn it up. I went from 50% to 90% over 2 days which may have been too drastic. I'll dim it down to around 75-80% just in case. My pump is meant for up to 150gallon tank, so running these 2 waterfarms I'm hoping is enough.

I agree with PPM and most definitely once PH is controlled, I will feed em a lil bit more. I have cal mag on the way. Should be here Thursday so I'll have that on hand. I'll be using my tap moving forward as it comes in at 120ppm which I think may help with what the spring water lacks.

I need to switch the timing so lights are on during the night, which is a cooler environment for the cab to keep temps lower. I'll be doing this when I flip.

That leaves humidity which I'll work on next. Thanks for affirming my plants health. First grow, so I'm taking in all what I can but it's helpful to hear I'm doing okay.

Cheers my friend!
Mike,

No problem dude. They look pretty ok to me.
As long as you have nice white roots, i think everything is good so far. It should be fine to lower the ph to 6 or so right away if its already at 6.5.

Keep it up, great first go so far.

If you have any drastic changes before you update in a few days, make sure you post here right away, and let us all know whats going on.

Good luck.

:peace:
 

My Name is Mike

Well-Known Member
I took the am reading and checked on the roots and found some darker colored roots that has me concerned. There are majority white roots but a few of them look darker. I don't know if FNB nutes would do this or not. Some pics cast a shadow from the flash, so expanding the pics would be best.

Cab Temp 79, RH 44%

Blueberry OG- PPM 247, PH 6.1, REZ TEMP 70
 

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My Name is Mike

Well-Known Member
Critical Cure CBD- PPM 245, PH 5.6, REZ TEMP 68

Interestingly enough, it's a smaller plant than OG but has a more considerable amount of roots.

No smell at all, water had a little white foam, not sure from PH down? I did a complete rez change on day 15 with fresh nutes to give more info.
 

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Tim1987

Well-Known Member
I took the am reading and checked on the roots and found some darker colored roots that has me concerned. There are majority white roots but a few of them look darker. I don't know if FNB nutes would do this or not. Some pics cast a shadow from the flash, so expanding the pics would be best.

Cab Temp 79, RH 44%

Blueberry OG- PPM 247, PH 6.1, REZ TEMP 70
I do see what you mean. I wouldn't stress about it too much dude.
Could be stain from hydroton if your using it. Could be nutrient stain. Could be the start of something nasty. Whatever it is, i don't believe its a huge concern.
I'd say do a brand new, fresh change of your reservoir. Also separately rinse your net pots too before putting them back in your water farm.
Keep that water temperature slightly under 70'F. Plenty of aeration. Ph between 5.6 and 6.5. Supplement beneficial microbes.
I really wouldn't worry dude. If it is a little rot, they'll snap out of it just fine. There have been much, much, much worse on RIU. Root balls that look rotten, and slimy, like a rotten mop that have bounced back to white healthy roots.

My other thought is, does your waterfarm have a recirculating dripper in the net pots? Mine did.
If the roots are in straight hydroton in the net pots, it should be fine to have on continuous drip. It'll keep the root ball cooler as well.
Once roots hit the cooler water in the reservoir it should be fine. But your net pots would be closer to the room in temperature, than your reservoir. If the roots it one pot aren't touching the reservoir yet, and the majority of the root ball is continuosly above 70'F, then there's a high risk of rot.

My advice moving forward-

Change your reservoir clean, exactly the same ppm as you've been giving, and give the net pots a flush too. Adjust the reservoir ph to 5.8 or so.
The next day check the reservoir. Temperature, ph, and roots.
Keep checking each day or more.
After a day or two, if it isn't greener add a tiny bit of calmag, and your base nutrient.
Keep checking.
Update your status.

Be sure to buy some beneficial microbes for your reservoir.
Be sure keep those reservoir temperatures under control.
Be sure to let us all know of anything else you discover right away, as you just did. It's extremely helpful information. More data the better.

Good luck Mike.
Plants are fine.

Tim.

:peace:
 

My Name is Mike

Well-Known Member
Thank you for the advice Tim!

Done, done, done and done. All clean, sanitized and refreshed.

I'm using my tap for this rez change. I've had 4 gallons sitting out for 48 hours, I put 2 in the fridge to chill to around 55 degrees. I paired them together 1 cooled, 1 not and got a temp of 63, since I didn't want to shock the plants. PHed to 5-5.2, PPM at 270. Tap is 130ppm added 3/4tsp FNB, brought it to 270ppm.

My waterfarm rez are actually wrapped with reflectix which works for light reflection and insulation. Rez temps should hold as I have another piece of reflectix at the top below the plant to block heat from light and contain any salt buildup at the top. Working so far.

I'm going to let it all settle and check at my pm reading and adjust if necessary.

Old pic from early in the grow, but wanted to show you more of the setup.

Couple questions I have.

Should I grab a small bottle of hydroguard just in case?

No idea what to look for in microbes, any recs?
 

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Tim1987

Well-Known Member
Thank you for the advice Tim!

Done, done, done and done. All clean, sanitized and refreshed.

I'm using my tap for this rez change. I've had 4 gallons sitting out for 48 hours, I put 2 in the fridge to chill to around 55 degrees. I paired them together 1 cooled, 1 not and got a temp of 63, since I didn't want to shock the plants. PHed to 5-5.2, PPM at 270. Tap is 130ppm added 3/4tsp FNB, brought it to 270ppm.

My waterfarm rez are actually wrapped with reflectix which works for light reflection and insulation. Rez temps should hold as I have another piece of reflectix at the top below the plant to block heat from light and contain any salt buildup at the top. Working so far.

I'm going to let it all settle and check at my pm reading and adjust if necessary.

Old pic from early in the grow, but wanted to show you more of the setup.

Couple questions I have.

Should I grab a small bottle of hydroguard just in case?

No idea what to look for in microbes, any recs?
Mike,

Sweet, you hit it all on the head right away.
I'd try to keep your nutrient ratio, and concentration exactly the same, as it has been for a couple days. But keep the ph just a tad below 6 too. But remember to always keep the ph above 5.5. (5-5.2, is too low. Higher is better than lower). If your reservoir temps get too hot, you can do things like add frozen bottles of water to the reservoir, as a cheap alternative to cooling.
Its the hardest, and most important thing with pure hydroponics. Adjusting, and maintaining a healthy reservoir. PH, temperature, and adequate air supply, are at the top of your list.
Dont make any other drastic changes for a day or two. Because if something all of a sudden starts getting worse, it'll be much, much harder to identity the cause if several things have changed. Fix one problem at a time.
For my own plants roots always, always, always come first. The roots are the engine room of a plant. You've found a potential root problem, so personally i'd give the engine a bit of a tune up. Worry about adding more nutrient, humidity etc, etc in a couple days. No major changes until your engine is running smoothly.
Also i'll add to be very wary of algae. With those clear plastic tubes, be aware its light that encourages algae to grow. So if light is leaking into your reservoir, its possible algae can grow. If those tubes on the side of your buckets, are gauges for your water level, then algae could start there. I know its being nit picky, but the little things matter with environment, and you have a potential root problem. It might be worth wrapping dark tape around them, and putting a cap of sorts on top of the tube. Even a piece of pvc piping with a screw on cap. With a slightly larger diameter that the tubing on the buckets, so you can slip them over the tubing like a sock, and easily check your water level. So you can use still effectively use the gauges, and block any light as well. Just brain-storming but its an idea.
Personally i would buy a bottle of beneficial microbes. Even a silica product if you can fit it into your budget as well as microbes..
I havn't used hydroguard before. But reading Botanicare's info, it honestly looks like a good product. Just be wary when you make your purchase though. It seems to say there's a 2yr shelf life, from date of manufacturing, and 6 months after opening. So if you can help it, ideally check the manufacture date on the bottle to see how long its been on the shelf. More than 1.5yrs and i'd stay clear. Also bare in mind, once you open the bottle you have 6 months to use it. So you probably only need a small bottle.
I've used "Rhizotonic", and "Cannazyme" by CANNA before, and was generally satisfied. Only downside is the price of them. Also the Cannazyme has a 0.1.1. NPK value. So it has to be added to your total NPK. Also Rhizotonic raises the ph. Good effective products, but they have their downsides. Mainly the price.
There are many silica products too. But silica needs potassium to break down into an available for for your plants. So most silica products contain a little K. Examples of a silica product is "Rhino Skin" by advanced nutrients. But advanced nutrients usually dilute their products a lot, so do a little digging. Ive heard "Dutchmaster" sells a silica product, that is potassium free, and already in its available form. Expensive though, and sounds a little synthetic for my liking. But its honestly probably fine. Silica is very beneficial, especially for water culture. Water doesn't contain much silica at all...

I'm not really the best at hydro builds, others could definitely help more than i can here. But at first glance your setup looks pretty neat, and tidy. Id work on any light leakes myself.
I like the kitty on the front of the bucket too, haha :P

Anything else just shout dude. Happy to give advice where i believe i can.

Best of luck, keep us all updated.
Cheers mate,

Tim.

:peace:
 

My Name is Mike

Well-Known Member
Thanks brotha!

Yeah the tube on the side shows water level but also serves as a drain to test/drain water. I know I have some leftover materials I'm sure I can come up with something to shelter it from the light.

PH that low was an accident, I thought it would increase or once the water became agitated, it would give a different reading. I'm going to do my pm check in a bit and make adjustments to get it up.

I thought the cats would give the WF a nice touch haha. Thanks for the schooling on microbes. I'm going to do a little research on your recs and go from there.

BTW- BB OG is already smelling and it smells delicious. I thought it would be too early but im digging it.
 

Tim1987

Well-Known Member
Thanks brotha!

Yeah the tube on the side shows water level but also serves as a drain to test/drain water. I know I have some leftover materials I'm sure I can come up with something to shelter it from the light.

PH that low was an accident, I thought it would increase or once the water became agitated, it would give a different reading. I'm going to do my pm check in a bit and make adjustments to get it up.

I thought the cats would give the WF a nice touch haha. Thanks for the schooling on microbes. I'm going to do a little research on your recs and go from there.

BTW- BB OG is already smelling and it smells delicious. I thought it would be too early but im digging it.
No worries man.
Haha yeah, keep the cat its a cool touch.
Dude im jealous, wish i had Blueberry myself. Classic smoke. Very cool. By the sounds of things so far it'll be a good pheno too.
 

My Name is Mike

Well-Known Member
The blueberry OG seems to be either same or smidge better looking. It might still be too early to tell. I took a reading a lil bit ago. I'll be treating with PH down.

Temp:82
RH: 50%

PPM: 312
PH: 6.5 (climbed from 5.6 last night)
REZ: 74
 

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Tim1987

Well-Known Member
The critical cure CBD looks healthy overall but still appears to be lighter green in color. I took a reading a lil bit ago. I'll be treating with PH down. I've also attached my log since day 15.

Temp:82
RH: 50%

PPM: 338
PH: 6.7 (climbed from 6.1 last night)
REZ: 74
Morning dude.

Looking better, looking better!
All good. Baby steps. Its good progress.

Be wary its probably carbonates in your tap water, that's causing the climb.
Which climbed more. Using the spring water? Or using tap?
I'd say its ok for now. Keep the ppms the same. If anything just a touch less nutrient when you top off today. Id probably just add a little more water. I think 300ppm should be about right.
Also your ph. Drop it down to 5.6 or so today. Because your ph spiked 0.6 higher overnight, you may get two days out of your reservoir before needing to adjust ph again. Ph 5.6 in your reservoir will be 5.8 in a matter of hours.
Hold off using any calmag for now.

Looking better, perkier, lusher, nicer.
Thanks for updating.

Anything bad that arises let the thread know right away.

:peace:

Edit: make sure you keep checking those roots too. If you feel the need to do another reservoir change and rinse the pots again, today, tomorrow, whenever. Don't hesitate to do so.
 
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My Name is Mike

Well-Known Member
Hey thanks buddy!

I haven't had the ph down long enough to compare to be honest. I went 14 days without it and had mid to high 7s so adjusting now it's going to be tedious.

I tested the spring water and it was within 40ppm and 1 PH level from my tap minus chlorine or chloramine whichever is in there. It's not like it's expensive just PITA to keep filling it up at store.

I've noticed critical cure is drinking more than my BB OG, but my BB OG is significantly larger, so weird. I'm going to track of how much how often. It'll be valuable to keep an accurate diagnosis. Will keep you posted!
 

Tim1987

Well-Known Member
Hey thanks buddy!

I haven't had the ph down long enough to compare to be honest. I went 14 days without it and had mid to high 7s so adjusting now it's going to be tedious.

I tested the spring water and it was within 40ppm and 1 PH level from my tap minus chlorine or chloramine whichever is in there. It's not like it's expensive just PITA to keep filling it up at store.

I've noticed critical cure is drinking more than my BB OG, but my BB OG is significantly larger, so weird. I'm going to track of how much how often. It'll be valuable to keep an accurate diagnosis. Will keep you posted!
Sweet mate. Cheers.
 

My Name is Mike

Well-Known Member
What a turn around! Plants are looking great. Roots look healthier and I can see new white root growth which makes me happy.

I've made some good strides to maintain the environment better and dial in on consistency with the farms.

Cab
Temp 80 (has stayed within 78-80 last 24hrs)
RH 47% (has stayed between 46-47% last 24hrs)

BB OG
PPM 258
PH 5.8
REZ 73
 

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Tim1987

Well-Known Member
CC CBD
PPM 306
PH 5.7
REZ 73

Both are equally drinking water, I topped off last night around 1/4 gallon each PHed water
Looking great!
Thanks for the update.
Happy growing, and harvest.

Best of luck through out.
Anything goes wrong, i'd suggest to just update this thread.

Looking great. Cheers Mike,

Tim.

:peace:
 
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