Cooking First Batch of Organics

Hello everyone.

I have been growing with FFOF/Perlite and adding synthetics nutes for about a year now and have decided to get rid of the synthetic nutes and go organic. After a lot of reading, it seems like there are a ton of different ways and ideas to go about this regarding supersoils, composting, teas etc. I'd like to keep most of the unproductive banter out of here if possible.

I wanted to continue using FFOF as a base and keep it relatively simple but I still ended up with 10 ingredients. This is the mix I have come up with:

1.5 cu ft - Fox Farm Ocean Forest
10 qts - Earthworm Castings 1-0-0
5 qts - Perlite
2 cups - Bat Guano 0-13-0
2 cups - Blood Meal 12-0-0
1.5 cups - Kelp Meal 1-0.1-2
1 cup - Alfalfa Meal 2-5.0.5-2.5
1 cup - Fish Bone Meal 3-16-0
1 cup - Dolomite Lime
1 cup - Azomite 0-0-0.2



I mixed everything up really good on a tarp before putting it in an 18 gallon tote, and then watered it until saturation. It's winter here now with snow outside so I plan on cooking the soil in my grow room. I wasn't sure if I should leave the tote uncovered right now or seal the lid on the tote? I would think I don't want it to dry out too quick so maybe put the lid on but leave it cracked to let some air in?

I think I will brew some teas as the grow progresses and definitely do some top dressing. I've got some clones that will be ready for transplant in a few weeks so will just let this cook for now while my other plants finish.

Would like to hear some opinions on my mix, thanks for reading.

Can't wait to see your grow.

iPerculate said:

Hello everyone.

I have been growing with FFOF/Perlite and adding synthetics nutes for about a year now and have decided to get rid of the synthetic nutes and go organic. After a lot of reading, it seems like there are a ton of different ways and ideas to go about this regarding supersoils, composting, teas etc. I'd like to keep most of the unproductive banter out of here if possible.

I wanted to continue using FFOF as a base and keep it relatively simple but I still ended up with 10 ingredients. This is the mix I have come up with:

1.5 cu ft - Fox Farm Ocean Forest
10 qts - Earthworm Castings 1-0-0
5 qts - Perlite
2 cups - Bat Guano 0-13-0
2 cups - Blood Meal 12-0-0
1.5 cups - Kelp Meal 1-0.1-2
1 cup - Alfalfa Meal 2-5.0.5-2.5
1 cup - Fish Bone Meal 3-16-0
1 cup - Dolomite Lime
1 cup - Azomite 0-0-0.2



I mixed everything up really good on a tarp before putting it in an 18 gallon tote, and then watered it until saturation. It's winter here now with snow outside so I plan on cooking the soil in my grow room. I wasn't sure if I should leave the tote uncovered right now or seal the lid on the tote? I would think I don't want it to dry out too quick so maybe put the lid on but leave it cracked to let some air in?

I think I will brew some tea's as the grow progresses and definitely do some top dressing. I've got some clones that will be ready for transplant in a few weeks so will just let this cook for now while my other plants finish.

Would like to hear some opinions on my mix, thanks for reading.

Click to expand...

iPerculate said:

Hello everyone.

I have been growing with FFOF/Perlite and adding synthetics nutes for about a year now and have decided to get rid of the synthetic nutes and go organic. After a lot of reading, it seems like there are a ton of different ways and ideas to go about this regarding supersoils, composting, teas etc. I'd like to keep most of the unproductive banter out of here if possible.

I wanted to continue using FFOF as a base and keep it relatively simple but I still ended up with 10 ingredients. This is the mix I have come up with:

1.5 cu ft - Fox Farm Ocean Forest
10 qts - Earthworm Castings 1-0-0
5 qts - Perlite
2 cups - Bat Guano 0-13-0
2 cups - Blood Meal 12-0-0
1.5 cups - Kelp Meal 1-0.1-2
1 cup - Alfalfa Meal 2-5.0.5-2.5
1 cup - Fish Bone Meal 3-16-0
1 cup - Dolomite Lime
1 cup - Azomite 0-0-0.2



I mixed everything up really good on a tarp before putting it in an 18 gallon tote, and then watered it until saturation. It's winter here now with snow outside so I plan on cooking the soil in my grow room. I wasn't sure if I should leave the tote uncovered right now or seal the lid on the tote? I would think I don't want it to dry out too quick so maybe put the lid on but leave it cracked to let some air in?

I think I will brew some teas as the grow progresses and definitely do some top dressing. I've got some clones that will be ready for transplant in a few weeks so will just let this cook for now while my other plants finish.

Would like to hear some opinions on my mix, thanks for reading.

Click to expand...

I would start getting away from the powdered guano and blood meals (if that's what they are). they tend to be pretty soluble and can be too available and either leach out easily or be too strong too quickly. longer term more dense sources like crab shell meal, neem meal (that hasn't been super processed, ahimsa is a good source) or even fossilized inputs tend to released as needed when organisms feed on them. They will hold your nutrient levels longer.

one thing i see though, you are lacking potassium. with the recipe you posted, my experience would be that you will likely experience a less heavy harvest, and even potassium deficiencies. If you eat bananas regularly, dry the peels and chop them up, you can get good potassium levels from them and even use them as a topdress around week 2 of flower and get the potassium boost when you need it. just mix them up with some compost and even add some kelp in there, put a layer down on top and mulch it so it stays moist. a couple other good sources of long term potassium are langebenite or greensand. greensand takes a little longer to get mined by the microbes, but it's done me well

Good luck and have fun!

Some light reading...


heres a good glossary .

https://themodern.farm/intro/


https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...c0&app=desktop


https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...SmfgsKKMAMa9bL

I did see a lack of potassium in the mix. I was considering greensand for the mix as well but never did put it in. I was also thinking of adding oyster shell. I figured after I made the mix I would come on here and get pissed off at myself for forgetting something after it's all done and mixed. That's how keeping it simple turned into 10 ingredients.

I have read that I should wait about a week or so and then stir + water the soil mix again (if it's getting dry). So maybe I will be able to add greensand and 1 or 2 more small ingredients if I really need to at this time while it's still early in the cooking process. I have the lid on the tote but cracked about an inch to let air exchange. Still really moist

iPerculate said:

I did see a lack of potassium in the mix. I was considering greensand for the mix as well but never did put it in. I was also thinking of adding oyster shell. I figured after I made the mix I would come on here and get pissed off at myself for forgetting something after it's all done and mixed. That's how keeping it simple turned into 10 ingredients.

I have read that I should wait about a week or so and then stir + water the soil mix again (if it's getting dry). So maybe I will be able to add greensand and 1 or 2 more small ingredients if I really need to at this time while it's still early in the cooking process. I have the lid on the tote but cracked about an inch to let air exchange. Still really moist

Click to expand...

you can definitely add stuff in after the first week. and if you see something else you think you need after they are already planted, just topdress it in with some compost. easy game. and yeah, stir it up about once a week which will introduce oxygen and also spread around microbial colonies and get you a good inoculation during the composting/inoculation process.

I've never posted a youtube link before, so here goes.
at about 9:45 into the vid he starts mixing supersoil with Ocean Forest as the base.
And DrEarth Bud and Bloom as the nutrient mix plus a few other things.

I hope it helps.

iPerculate said:

1.5 cu ft - Fox Farm Ocean Forest
10 qts - Earthworm Castings 1-0-0
5 qts - Perlite
2 cups - Bat Guano 0-13-0
2 cups - Blood Meal 12-0-0
1.5 cups - Kelp Meal 1-0.1-2
1 cup - Alfalfa Meal 2-5.0.5-2.5
1 cup - Fish Bone Meal 3-16-0
1 cup - Dolomite Lime
1 cup - Azomite 0-0-0.2

Click to expand...

ShLUbY said:

I would start getting away from the powdered guano and blood meals (if that's what they are). they tend to be pretty soluble and can be too available and either leach out easily or be too strong too quickly. longer term more dense sources like crab shell meal, neem meal (that hasn't been super processed, ahimsa is a good source) or even fossilized inputs tend to released as needed when organisms feed on them. They will hold your nutrient levels longer.

Click to expand...

I agree with this. Drop the fish bone meal for crab or crustacean meal. I've been testing my soil and phosphorus is usually high, even when I use only crab meal. I was using fish meal before, but P#'s were so high that it started to lockout iron and zinc. I'm getting the idea that trace minerals are the inputs that are hard to raise the #'s. Phosphorus has an antagonist relationship with trace minerals. Also, high levels of nitrogen are not going to help either. High levels of N or P will keep your roots from producing exudes. High N will also keep your brix level low. High K and low N are a part of high brix gardening.

Here is a solubility test that shows low boron. I was getting very low brix #'s with this soil test and my plants looked like total shit. Trace minerals are VERY important. I followed Clackamas Cootz's recipe, you notice that my P levels are a little high? I only used crab meal as a P input. Also, you could use basalt and glacial rock dust in place of dolomite to get a boost in trace minerals. It's a little more expensive, but you also get more out of it. Rock dusts are usually high in Mg, so you will need oyster shell flour to balance the Ca/Mg ratio. I used dolomite for this soil test and I don't think that I will use it again. My Mg levels are too high while trace minerals are too low. Ca, Mg, and K need to be in right ratios(base saturation ratio) or they will start causing nutrient lock-out. Potassium levels are supposed to be 2x higher than what the tests suggests, the creator of the tests said that about cannabis on a podcast.

Another thing to note is that I started with peat moss and perlite instead of FFoF.

Wow thanks for the info. I actually just picked up some Oyster Shell yesterday, was planning on adding 1/2 cup to the total mix in a few days when I water and mix it. I definitely need to balance the Mg.

I don't know if I should add another source or K or not. I was turned off to greensand (for this first time anyway) because of how long it takes to break down and become available. I started looking at langbeinite but see that in most cases it's just modified neem meal.

Now that you guys suggest it, I may go out looking for some crab shell meal. Should this be used instead of the oyster shell, or in combination with? You think I should still add the crab shell meal to the mix this time around with the fish bone meal being in there?

iPerculate said:

Now that you guys suggest it, I may go out looking for some crab shell meal. Should this be used instead of the oyster shell, or in combination with? You think I should still add the crab shell meal to the mix this time around with the fish bone meal being in there?

Click to expand...

Crab shell is for the Phosphorus and Chitin, oyster shell flour(OSF) is calcium and also Ph adjustments. Crab shell is used mostly for insect pest management(IPM) and should be used with barley which has the enzyme chitinase which breaks down chitin. Chitin is the hard shell of insects and crustaceans and it don't like to break down on it's own. Neem/karanja is also part of the IPM strategies, it's better to use it in the soil rather than a spray. If your not familiar with Clackamas Coots, it might be time to research his methods. I like listening to podcasts. There are several pods on here that are worth listening to and Clackamas is on there 3x. It's very interesting what they say about phosphorus! Tad Hussey got to interview some of the biggest names in the industry. I'm looking at Steve Solomon's work and he was interviewed on there and he talks about soil mineralization and that is the basic idea of "High Brix" gardening. I'm trying to raise my brix levels. High phosphorus is counter intuitive to high brix because high P locks out minerals.

https://www.kisorganics.com/pages/podcast

iPerculate said:

I don't know if I should add another source or K or not.

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If your going to feed with a tea later, don't worry about it. You will get the K in the molasses and kelp, but don't use too much molasses because the plant cannot use a big dose of sugar. This might be a reason why so many people have problems with using teas, too much molasses? Google "Feeding plants sugar", which is about the same as using too much molasses.

I never had luck with a tea brew, but I started using a fermented plant juice made from brown sugar and I had very good results.

MustangStudFarm said:

If your going to feed with a tea later, don't worry about it. You will get the K in the molasses and kelp, but don't use too much molasses because the plant cannot use a big dose of sugar. This might be a reason why so many people have problems with using teas, too much molasses? Google "Feeding plants sugar", which is about the same as using too much molasses.

I never had luck with a tea brew, but I started using a fermented plant juice made from brown sugar and I had very good results.

Click to expand...

Calliandra gave me some good advice with my teas (which I am in the moment relating that advice to the micro class i took this semester). she said instead of the TBSP per gallon that most people are using for molasses to use 1 TSP per gallon. not only is there less sugar, but it also helps with the availability of oxygen in the water during the brewing process. In the beginning of the brew, O2 levels are at their highest but O2 demand is at its lowest due to low populations, but as soon as microbes start feeding and reproducing the demand for O2 jumps and the available O2 drops. depending on your temperatures where the brew is being done, a brew can go anaerobic pretty quickly no matter how much O2 you think you are bubbling into that tea. So by lowering the molasses amount, you not only control the amount of sugar by using organisms to consume the majority of it, but you also help prevent your tea from going anaerobic, even when you think there's no way that it could be, by controlling the growth rates of the organisms! instead of a free for all, it creates a competition.

I do plan on giving teas throughout the grow, especially this first one. However I would like the tea to be mostly supplemental to the soil. I just checked the tote, it's got some of the white webbing going on the top of it, still pretty moist. In 2-3 days I will empty it out onto a tarp and mix it up and add water. This is when I was planning on adding the oyster shell. I know it's easy to get carried away and want to add a bunch of stuff but i'd rather not mess with it too much at this point if it will get me through a grow with the help of some supplemental teas.

I plan on adding 1 cup of oyster shell to the above mix, and possibly some crab meal now. If you guys think crab meal would be a significant help, and not burn the plants, I will consider adding that as well. But 1-2 more ingredients is about all I'm willing to do. Also I can still return the oyster shell when i'm at the store getting crab meal if someone has a good argument for replacing it with something else.

Thanks

iPerculate said:

I plan on adding 1 cup of oyster shell to the above mix, and possibly some crab meal now. If you guys think crab meal would be a significant help, and not burn the plants, I will consider adding that as well. But 1-2 more ingredients is about all I'm willing to do. Also I can still return the oyster shell when i'm at the store getting crab meal if someone has a good argument for replacing it with something else.

Click to expand...

It's winter time, so using crab for an IPM really won't be necessary. Clackamas was an outdoor grower and was always fighting with spider mites. You probably won't need it until spring

iPerculate said:

Also I can still return the oyster shell when i'm at the store getting crab meal if someone has a good argument for replacing it with something else.

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Egg shell would be the replacement, but it breaks down slower. I think that OSF is something like 11-15% soluble, which means that % will dissolve in water. I bought 2x 40lb bags of it when I caught it on sale. I think OSF is something like 97% calcium carbonate which is almost pure calcium as far as organics are concerned.

iPerculate said:

I do plan on giving teas throughout the grow, especially this first one. However I would like the tea to be mostly supplemental to the soil. I just checked the tote, it's got some of the white webbing going on the top of it, still pretty moist. In 2-3 days I will empty it out onto a tarp and mix it up and add water. This is when I was planning on adding the oyster shell. I know it's easy to get carried away and want to add a bunch of stuff but i'd rather not mess with it too much at this point if it will get me through a grow with the help of some supplemental teas.

I plan on adding 1 cup of oyster shell to the above mix, and possibly some crab meal now. If you guys think crab meal would be a significant help, and not burn the plants, I will consider adding that as well. But 1-2 more ingredients is about all I'm willing to do. Also I can still return the oyster shell when i'm at the store getting crab meal if someone has a good argument for replacing it with something else.

Thanks

Click to expand...

Crab meal definitely won’t burn your plants. It’s very slow release and not strong in any mineral compartment, it’s high in carbohydrates which is great for soil organisms. I would never grow without it if given the choice

ShLUbY said:

it’s high in carbohydrates which is great for soil organisms.

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Getting carbs to your plants is good for high brix values also. I didn't know that crab had carbs.

Just went to the local hydro store, they have a great selection of organics but they didn't have any crab meal whatsoever. The guy tried to sell me on some 6-6-0 shrimp meal that is "pretty close to crab meal" but I wasn't having it. Maybe i'll try a different store tomorrow.

MustangStudFarm said:

Getting carbs to your plants is good for high brix values also. I didn't know that crab had carbs.

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yeah crustacean shells are made of chitin, with is basically pure carbohydrate, just uses a different linkage than fungi (chitin) and plants (cellulose) use.

iPerculate said:

Wow thanks for the info. I actually just picked up some Oyster Shell yesterday, was planning on adding 1/2 cup to the total mix in a few days when I water and mix it. I definitely need to balance the Mg.

I don't know if I should add another source or K or not. I was turned off to greensand (for this first time anyway) because of how long it takes to break down and become available. I started looking at langbeinite but see that in most cases it's just modified neem meal.

Now that you guys suggest it, I may go out looking for some crab shell meal. Should this be used instead of the oyster shell, or in combination with? You think I should still add the crab shell meal to the mix this time around with the fish bone meal being in there?

Click to expand...

Hey buddy, checkout my mix

https://www.rollitup.org/t/infos-probiotic-no-till-sips-2018.980455/#post-14607546