Comparative analysis of - 2 different ditch weed crops

V

Vincent VonBlown

New Member
Some times people ask me about breeding being easy or hard.

They often reference, some seed they made by accident. As well as how much they made of it.
And it's usually a fair quantity of seed. As they made it by accident, you know...

My response is, it's much more difficult to actually produce seed that you are trying to make. Then
seed you didn't try to make.

Most of the time, the individuals, will look at you like your lying to them...
 
I won't go into, the difficulty of getting pollen when you need it. I like fresh pollen, so timing is essential.
But one has to consider the cost of losing crops to the breeding process
001.jpg002.jpg003.jpg

Here's some pictures of a 3/4 ditch male. Meaning that 3/4 of it present composition is wild hemp/ditch weed. This male is from the second 3/4 ditch crop I've done this year.

The first crop was a throw away, producing plants with very small yield, limited flavor and potency.
I had to make a decesion immediatly with that one. Not knowing really what the plants would be when they were done. I had to make a decision weather to make seed or not.

I didn't make seed on the first one, so the bud (what there was of it) was a sensimia/seedless.
And like I said it didn't make the grade at all. So I was left with basicly no crop and no seeds for my effort.
 
Now like I said, the first 3/4 crop was a loss. But the second one, wasn't.

The second crop, appeared a lot like the first one. Low yielding, lanky, pretty quick, and both crops stalks smelled simlar when I rubbed them.

It was another make a decision time. I figured if these werent any better then the last crop, I might as well seed them. As the bud wouldn't be anything I would want to sell or smoke really.
 
As this second crop of 3/4 ditchers marched on. I noticed some other differences between the first and second ditch crop.
One thing was color. this second crop had variations of purple on some of the plants. One plant having purple tips, and purple looking trichomes. And another having purple caylixs and purple fan leaves.
 
The male is the same for both ditch crops (ditch pollen). The females although both containing differing amounts of ditch in themselves, were different from each other (not sister plants).

This second crop of 3/4 ditch, I just smoked some yesterday and today with a friend. The buzz is absoloutely phenominal, it reminds of those good old days, with columibian gold and panama red etc. (That aren't suppose to exsist)

The flavor on the worst ones is very ingrained. I made a composite hash blend of 99% thunderstruck clone and 1% fluroscent bud. The flavor was completly over powered by the 1%. And you have to remember the thunderstruck clone is probably the most flavorfull thing around to start with...
 
Always remember when breeding, only go with actual data, and don't speculate what is going to happen.

Also don't always take everything at face value. You may have some really nitro pot, you get seeds from.
And the pot you grow from that seed, might not be much good. And the reverse, may also be true. You may be sure something isn't any good
from the pot you smoked. But might be much better then the parents when grown out. And that's mainly because of recessive genetics.

It's easy to see dominant genetics, you just look and there it is. Recessive is more like playing poker, and not knowing what the other players are holding...
 
Vince out of curiosity why are you growing hemp, below 3% thc? You're not expecting any kind of quality from these plants I hope. Not trying to offend just trying to understand.
Peace
 
Well, there is an interesting story behind the ditch weed...

We use to grow outdoors, and any females, you put outdoors, will have some amount of seed in them (great or small)
So, you end up with some seed, that are half the female, and half ditch/feral hemp.

We grew some of the seeds out under HID's or should say Bill Wonder actually did the experimentation originally, with the ditch crosses.
 
And Bill found about what you might expect, plants that yield pretty good, but aren't that tasty or resinous for the most part...
So, he didn't bother growing anymore out. And when he would get some of the ditch crosses, he would throw them away.
 
Now actually there are quite a few parts to this ditch weed story. But here's a picture of some of the early ditch that bill was throwing away, that was bred foward selectivly for a couple of generations.

b107.PNG This is the mother to the strain we created called "SuperJack". The seed line was actually created by Breeder Matt, from some of those early ditch lines Bill was throwing away. That I happened to give to another grower (Breeder Matt)
 
Breeder Matt, went further, producing additional generations... I haven't tried those seeds as of yet, that he produced. But Superjack was very quick, big yielding, tasty high quality sativa like no other.

But getting back to why... I had bred my version of wonderbud (which was half ditch to begin with) into a very low yielding version of itself. It was in this time frame, that I became associated with Marc Emery, and began buying differing seed strains from him. I got the bright idea of hybrdizing my low yielding Wonder with some of these Canadian strains.

The results in all ways was phenominal. My low yielding Wonder had exploded, smoking the finished product produced incredible flavors, and I felt like I was drunk everytime I smoked it. I reference Fantasia (see pic below) her flavor reminding me of that little girl in the Willy Wonka movie that blew up like a blueberry, and commented how she could taste real blueberry pie oozing down her throat... Fantasia was a Wonder Ditch/Jack Herer hybrid...

b100.jpg
 
One of the things that I'm working with, that has really impressed me so far is the Wonderjacks clone.

We originally produced a strain called "Wonderjack" which was a cross of Bill's original wonderbud that had no ditch in it crossed with a unreleased brothers grim hybrid, (Cinderella 99.25 X Arua Borealis) this cross was made with the 4th unreleased back cross to Bros. Grimm held clone.

Wonderjack was then crossed with a Sensi Super Skunk. I put the (Wonderjack x Super Skunk) outdoors and whala, I then had ditch hybrid seed again... This seed produced the vito clone which was a light herm that pollinated itself. Then from that herm ditch hybrid seed I found the Wonderjacks clone....
 
One of the interesting things I found. Is the difference in light and environmental response from cannabis.

Even half ditch plants, that haven't been bred any further. When flowered under fluroscent lights will usually perform quite well. Being very potent, and sometimes quite flavorfull
 
The next interesting thing I found, was that ditch hybrids, which are bred within themselves. Or hybridized with other non ditch cannabis, can improve quite rapidly. The important thing was to keep breeding them.

You don't see anyone working with ditch, for the most part (or at least they aren't telling you if they are).
I believe Early Pearl was something that was bred with ditch weed in it as I recall.
So mostly people are working with ruderalis, and making automatics, to produce swift hardy plants.

One of the problems with autos, is they are very inconsistent. Meaning start 10 auto seeds, some will be autos some won't etc. As the lines aren't very stable.

But putting the inconsistency aside. Autos because of thier quick nature, tend not to yield as much. Some people tell me, outdoors all they are getting is an ounce maybe 2 maximum for the most part with autos.

And the obvious problem with autos, is quality potency, they lack that when compared to non automatic strains.

My work with ditch, I don't see any of the problems, that ruderalis autos present. And while the plants aren't automatic, meaning they will flower regardless of light cycle. They are very swift, and should finish almost anywhere with huge yield...
 
You know though, a thread like this oughta have a million views on it... I think the information, is just as important as when we introduced the bubbler...

But it's my lowest viewed thread actually...

Maybe if I entitled it something like "Hey noobs, want to learn how to breed the right way?" it would be seen by more people, lol.
 
Von,
Just a few things. There is a great article from the breeders of Dinafem in spain in the June 2012 High Times (pp 62-72) by Danny Danko and according to the article the Auto gene will show up in ratio's like this: f2 generation only 20% to 30% of the offspring will be autoflowering, f3 will be about 60% auto and the 4th generation should be almost all the way auto. Then the f4 chosen champions must be feminized and backcrossed and only in this way can the quality of the final product be maintained.

Vincent VonBlown said:
One of the problems with autos, is they are very inconsistent. Meaning start 10 auto seeds, some will be autos some won't etc. As the lines aren't very stable.

And the obvious problem with autos, is quality potency, they lack that when compared to non automatic strains.
Click to expand...

This explains the genetics behind auto's and their genes that control and the breeding involved to produce quality and consistancy. You would really like the article and I found it a very good read.
As for breeding the ditch with the drug strains and increasing the quality it is because of the drug strain genetics and genes that the ditch got better. Realize you already know that information.
Hope that helps,
 
Im curious to see if bringing in the variation in the genetic makeup of the ditchweed will have any positive effect on the final product (hardier plant, diversity in todays genepool) or if it really is just the qualities of the superior plants your re isolating and breeding for, because in essence wouldnt that be backtracking? Im really intrested in this and im subbed cant wait to see these pics my phones acting dumb but i really think this will be a fun one to watch!
 
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