Colorado growers, our days could be numbered

rreign

Active Member
I'm pretty damn impressed with Cory's email to that douche bag Romer. I have put in my letters to Romer and Obama about different thoughts on the legalization, decriminalization and regulation of Medical Marijuana, but this took the cake. I'm not currently living in Colorado, but in just over a year I will be. I don't want to have to deal with all the dumb shit when I am just trying to move to a place that will allow me to have MY medicine and not the govt's pharmaceutical bullshit.
 

Dr. VonDank

Active Member
If you really want to fuck things up-------let the government run it!!!. This is alternative medicine!!!---Are they going to regulate massage/acupuncture/health-food stores/gyms. It's some funny shit---------------" A gym is only going to be able to have 5 members in the near future"----...It's time to ban together. Time to have our voices heard.

KEEP ALL STATE AND GOVERNMENT REGULATION OF MEDICAL MARIJUANA OUT!!!. DO NOT VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT SUPPORTS GOVERNMENT CONTROL OR REGULATION OF MEDICAL MARIJUANA PERIOD...
 

RATX

Member
This Bill Has been TRAHED!

BUT!!! From the way it sounds this is going to be a walk in the park next to the new bill coming up. Everyone needs to try to stay as involved as they can... We all need to keep in mind that if we all do not set some kind of Regs. THEY WILL DO IT FOR US! As of now I have not read or heard anything....

Thx
 

EdGreyfox

Well-Known Member
I can see a few problems with the new bill.

First off, telling doctors that they can't have any sort of financial interest in MMJ production or write a prescription at the same place MMJ is sold violates already existing rules. By that logic a doctor couldn't write you a prescription for any drug if there was a pharmacy on the premises, and it would mean that a doctor that owned stock in a company that made artificial hearts couldn't recommend their patients have an operation to get one. For that matter, the guys that invented the boob job couldn't have sold the implants they created to their patients, since they owned the company making them.

Second, It gives a single government official the right to decide what the fee's charged to patients will be, but doesn't say anything about how much they will be or if there are any limits on how high he can set them. The way it's written it seems to me that whoever holds that office could decide to raise the licensing fee to $20,000 a year and it would be perfectly legal.

Third, It's very hazy on exactly what the state is going to require to "prove" that someone really needs medical marijuana, and I question whether they have the right to require proof in the first place. By that logic the state should require that the same proof be provided and weighed before any physician can write a prescription for any drug thats based on cocaine, opium, heroin, etc. Either a doctors precription is valid, or it isn't. What it is for doesn't matter. End of discussion.

Finally, it seems to be trying to make it so much of a pain in the rear to comply with (notice how it talks about the new board and forms that will be created without saying much about what it will take to stay in compliance) that they are hoping to force doctors to quit writing prescriptions out of frustration with the paperwork.

One other thought- Has anyone considered that the reason some of these politians seem to be trying to add on some of these restrictions is because they know it will put most of the small growers out of business and open the way for a few big outfits (owned by themselves or their buddies) to move in and take over the market? Part of me can't help but think that there are some very big business interests that would love to take over the market with some help from a bit of legislation that makes it impossible for a small grower to exist.
 

Lucius Vorenus

Well-Known Member
I can see a few problems with the new bill.

First off, telling doctors that they can't have any sort of financial interest in MMJ production or write a prescription at the same place MMJ is sold violates already existing rules. By that logic a doctor couldn't write you a prescription for any drug if there was a pharmacy on the premises, and it would mean that a doctor that owned stock in a company that made artificial hearts couldn't recommend their patients have an operation to get one. For that matter, the guys that invented the boob job couldn't have sold the implants they created to their patients, since they owned the company making them.

Second, It gives a single government official the right to decide what the fee's charged to patients will be, but doesn't say anything about how much they will be or if there are any limits on how high he can set them. The way it's written it seems to me that whoever holds that office could decide to raise the licensing fee to $20,000 a year and it would be perfectly legal.

Third, It's very hazy on exactly what the state is going to require to "prove" that someone really needs medical marijuana, and I question whether they have the right to require proof in the first place. By that logic the state should require that the same proof be provided and weighed before any physician can write a prescription for any drug thats based on cocaine, opium, heroin, etc. Either a doctors precription is valid, or it isn't. What it is for doesn't matter. End of discussion.

Finally, it seems to be trying to make it so much of a pain in the rear to comply with (notice how it talks about the new board and forms that will be created without saying much about what it will take to stay in compliance) that they are hoping to force doctors to quit writing prescriptions out of frustration with the paperwork.

One other thought- Has anyone considered that the reason some of these politians seem to be trying to add on some of these restrictions is because they know it will put most of the small growers out of business and open the way for a few big outfits (owned by themselves or their buddies) to move in and take over the market? Part of me can't help but think that there are some very big business interests that would love to take over the market with some help from a bit of legislation that makes it impossible for a small grower to exist.
100% agreed
 

MacGuyver4.2.0

Well-Known Member
Again this is slime ball Romer and his cohorts trying to regulate and control the MMJ scene in Colorado with his friends warehouse grow ops from California. Think about it, if he eliminates ALL of the dispensaries and makes them 'State Run' only ops, his outfits can swoop in and take over in an instant. ALL politicians SUCK! All are corrupt and serving their OWN interests, not yours or mine! And for the record, this is ONLY 1 of four bills they are trying to get passed. He is breaking them up into separate bills to help ensure passage of key points he wants. ALL of the supporters mentioned in that bill SHOULD NOT be re-elected, remember who your enemies are come election time!
 

EdGreyfox

Well-Known Member
Macguyver,

Thing is, Romer wouldn't be able to get so much support for his ideas if the people in the business were keeping things a bit more low key. I've talked to an awful lot of people about this subject in the last six months, and since I've perfected the art of being a smoker while appearing to be a straight arrow I tend to get an honest response from people who think I will agree with them (i.e. middle class professionals and above mostly). People don't have an issue with medical marijuana, but when they hear news reports about doctors at dispensaries running people through an assembly line like process and just signing off on the paperwork without doing any real exam they get concerned, especially if a lot of the people going through the process are young people who may be taking advantage of the system just so they can get stoned whenever they want to.

The kids angle is the one that gets most people. They might not like the neon pot leaves hanging over the dispensary doors, but they could deal with it if the majority of the people going in and out looked like they had something wrong with them or were over the age of about 30 and looked at least somewhat respectable. Problem is that they keep seeing 18-22 year old "kids" going in out of these places, and they immediately decide that MMJ is all just a big scam. Whats worse is that they are right when it comes to a lot of those kids (but by no means all of them), because there are a few doctors that will signed the paperwork for anyone that pays them. Add on to that the fact that the industry has become a prime target for thieves because so many places are still operating on the cash only basis they are used to and it's easy to figure out why a lot of people in the middle class think the laws need to be tightened.

Now, my personal opinion is that some aspects of the laws need to be tightened while others need to be loosened. The current plant limit for personal use is ridiculously low, as is the amount of dried MMJ you can have in your possession. If it were up to me the whole concept of a plant and amount limit would go away for anyone with an MMJ license, because what any one person needs for their own consumption is so variable. As long as someone is only selling to the dispensaries or to other legal MMJ patients I don't see why there should be any legal issue other then telling them to go get a business license and start paying taxes on their MMJ related income. On the flip side, I think the dispensaries and commercial (as opposed to personal) grow operations need to be kept out of residential areas, and I think the doctors that have been treating the process like an assembly line need to be reigned in a bit.
 

Lucius Vorenus

Well-Known Member
Macguyver,

Thing is, Romer wouldn't be able to get so much support for his ideas if the people in the business were keeping things a bit more low key. I've talked to an awful lot of people about this subject in the last six months, and since I've perfected the art of being a smoker while appearing to be a straight arrow I tend to get an honest response from people who think I will agree with them (i.e. middle class professionals and above mostly). People don't have an issue with medical marijuana, but when they hear news reports about doctors at dispensaries running people through an assembly line like process and just signing off on the paperwork without doing any real exam they get concerned, especially if a lot of the people going through the process are young people who may be taking advantage of the system just so they can get stoned whenever they want to.

The kids angle is the one that gets most people. They might not like the neon pot leaves hanging over the dispensary doors, but they could deal with it if the majority of the people going in and out looked like they had something wrong with them or were over the age of about 30 and looked at least somewhat respectable. Problem is that they keep seeing 18-22 year old "kids" going in out of these places, and they immediately decide that MMJ is all just a big scam. Whats worse is that they are right when it comes to a lot of those kids (but by no means all of them), because there are a few doctors that will signed the paperwork for anyone that pays them. Add on to that the fact that the industry has become a prime target for thieves because so many places are still operating on the cash only basis they are used to and it's easy to figure out why a lot of people in the middle class think the laws need to be tightened.

Now, my personal opinion is that some aspects of the laws need to be tightened while others need to be loosened. The current plant limit for personal use is ridiculously low, as is the amount of dried MMJ you can have in your possession. If it were up to me the whole concept of a plant and amount limit would go away for anyone with an MMJ license, because what any one person needs for their own consumption is so variable. As long as someone is only selling to the dispensaries or to other legal MMJ patients I don't see why there should be any legal issue other then telling them to go get a business license and start paying taxes on their MMJ related income. On the flip side, I think the dispensaries and commercial (as opposed to personal) grow operations need to be kept out of residential areas, and I think the doctors that have been treating the process like an assembly line need to be reigned in a bit.
I pretty much agree with everything said here as well. Other than the grow ops not being allowed in Residential neighborhoods. I think the bottom line should be making sure the people running them are not jackasses.

If you can smell pot from the street you are absolutely doing it WRONG and you should not be allowed to grow. Certain amounts of air filtration is required to diffuse the smell of a room with 200 plants. Some people just don't think.

Pot leafs on signs is completely unacceptable and unfortunately many people do this. The MMJ dispensaries are starting to look like head shops that Cheech n Chong built circa 1982.

As for amounts, I can personally for myself have 6oz of dry and 20 plants. I could not imagine needing more for just myself. My doctor did a very thorough screening also as well as requiring all my previous surgeries paperwork and current treatments from previous doctors.

Some cleaning up is definately in order but it would not be if people would use more common sense and quit raising the gigantic flags. Green ones.
 

EdGreyfox

Well-Known Member
Lucius,

Are you set up as a caregiver? I thought that being a caregiver/dispensary was the only way you could get around the 2 oz possession limit? I don't disagree with you about 20 plants being about all I could ever imagine needing for personal use, but my understanding is that some people don't like to smoke it and want to make edibles instead, which requires a lot more plants. My issue is that the way the laws are set up now you're taking a chance anytime you have more then 6 plants even if you have the recommendation for a higher plant count. Sure, you'll win in court, but that won't stop the cops from arresting you, tossing you in jail, seizing your equipment and plants, etc.

There are just too many grey areas in the laws right now because (in my opinion) neither side of the debate is really open to compromise on certain things. The growers, dispensaries and patients don't really want any kind of restrictions placed on how much they can use, possess or grow, or on who can get an MMJ card, while the state wants to set limits that are so restrictive that you might as well just make it illegal again.

Politics is all about compromise, so we need to figure out what things we're willing to give the state and what we want in return. To me the easiest thing to trade would be the commerical growing in residential areas, because it's a no brainer. Commercial growers tend to have a large amount of fertilizer, chemicals, etc on hand, and that stuff can explode or turn toxic when exposed to fire. It just makes sense to tell the commerical growers that they need to set up shop in someplace that's zoned for commercial business and that's properly wired for the kind of power their operations require. In return, I'd want the state to increase the plant limit for personal growers to 20 (10 veg, 10 flower) and increase the possesion limit to 1/2 lb, while doing away with all plant count limits and possesion amount limits for commercial growers. I would support the idea of making the commercial growers keep records of how much they harvested and the amount involved in each sale to keep them honest about only selling to dispensaries and legal MMJ patients though.

The next item I'd compromise on is the requirements to get an MMJ card. I'd be willing support the states idea to review the medical data on people under the age of 21 before issuing the card as long as the review board was entirely made up of doctors and that at least 50% had favorable attitudes towards the use of MMJ (no stacking the boards with doctors who will deny every application). In return I'd ask them to drop the entire concept of requiring patients to submit to a state run physical exam and leave the requirements the way they are currently for all patients over 21.

Last item I would compromise on is the cost of an MMj card. I think it's totally ridiculous that it costs $90 to get a card on a cheap piece of paper that won't stand up to hardly any abuse (do yourself a favor-get the thing laminated) and that it only lasts for a year, but I'm willing to let them kick it up to say $125/yr in exchange for them dropping any idea about including a rule that would allow/require the state to notify the local police if someone's card expired for any reason. Don't know about you, but I'd rather pay a bit more then have to worry about the cops kicking in my door because some clerk entered a date into the computer wrong.
 

Lucius Vorenus

Well-Known Member
Last item I would compromise on is the cost of an MMj card. I think it's totally ridiculous that it costs $90 to get a card on a cheap piece of paper that won't stand up to hardly any abuse (do yourself a favor-get the thing laminated) and that it only lasts for a year
This completely makes the card invalid. Says so right on the card.
 

FlyLikeAnEagle

Well-Known Member
Lucius,

Are you set up as a caregiver? I thought that being a caregiver/dispensary was the only way you could get around the 2 oz possession limit? I don't disagree with you about 20 plants being about all I could ever imagine needing for personal use, but my understanding is that some people don't like to smoke it and want to make edibles instead, which requires a lot more plants. My issue is that the way the laws are set up now you're taking a chance anytime you have more then 6 plants even if you have the recommendation for a higher plant count. Sure, you'll win in court, but that won't stop the cops from arresting you, tossing you in jail, seizing your equipment and plants, etc.

There are just too many grey areas in the laws right now because (in my opinion) neither side of the debate is really open to compromise on certain things. The growers, dispensaries and patients don't really want any kind of restrictions placed on how much they can use, possess or grow, or on who can get an MMJ card, while the state wants to set limits that are so restrictive that you might as well just make it illegal again.

Politics is all about compromise, so we need to figure out what things we're willing to give the state and what we want in return. To me the easiest thing to trade would be the commerical growing in residential areas, because it's a no brainer. Commercial growers tend to have a large amount of fertilizer, chemicals, etc on hand, and that stuff can explode or turn toxic when exposed to fire. It just makes sense to tell the commerical growers that they need to set up shop in someplace that's zoned for commercial business and that's properly wired for the kind of power their operations require. In return, I'd want the state to increase the plant limit for personal growers to 20 (10 veg, 10 flower) and increase the possesion limit to 1/2 lb, while doing away with all plant count limits and possesion amount limits for commercial growers. I would support the idea of making the commercial growers keep records of how much they harvested and the amount involved in each sale to keep them honest about only selling to dispensaries and legal MMJ patients though.

The next item I'd compromise on is the requirements to get an MMJ card. I'd be willing support the states idea to review the medical data on people under the age of 21 before issuing the card as long as the review board was entirely made up of doctors and that at least 50% had favorable attitudes towards the use of MMJ (no stacking the boards with doctors who will deny every application). In return I'd ask them to drop the entire concept of requiring patients to submit to a state run physical exam and leave the requirements the way they are currently for all patients over 21.

Last item I would compromise on is the cost of an MMj card. I think it's totally ridiculous that it costs $90 to get a card on a cheap piece of paper that won't stand up to hardly any abuse (do yourself a favor-get the thing laminated) and that it only lasts for a year, but I'm willing to let them kick it up to say $125/yr in exchange for them dropping any idea about including a rule that would allow/require the state to notify the local police if someone's card expired for any reason. Don't know about you, but I'd rather pay a bit more then have to worry about the cops kicking in my door because some clerk entered a date into the computer wrong.

I don't see why we should compromise on a damn thing. The same people you are so willing to compromise with are the same ones spreading BS propaganda about it, they are the same ones that have destroyed millions of lives by doing everything they could to keep it illegal, and they are the same ones that would gladly put you in a cage over this. Fuck them. The ONLY reason we are in the position we are at this point is because people are finally revolting over this repression, if the powers that be had their way they would still be handing down 10 year sentences for growing 1 plant. But now they have no choice, the genie is out of the bottle and public support is on our side.

I fought 25 years for this cause and have definitely paid the price. These corrupt assholes were not compromising with me when they decided to put me on their radar in an attempt to silence me by planting drugs and lying in court, not to mention stealing everything I had through forfeiture laws. Think of all the lives that have been ruined throughout the years, all the families that have been torn apart because they were doing the exact same thing you are. There is no compromise as far as I'm concerned.
 

MacGuyver4.2.0

Well-Known Member
Agree with FlyLikeAnEagle-
Politics may appear to be about comprimise, but should NOT be. Politicians are supposed to be representing 'we the people', NOT we the corporations or we the special interest groups. What you are talking about is politics today which we all know is a crock. You either represent the peoples interests or you betray them, there is no compromise. All politicians are sell outs anyways, they just use the word 'compromise' as an excuse. And we ALL know what excuses are: "The skin of a lie, stuffed with reason"
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Pot leafs on signs is completely unacceptable and unfortunately many people do this.
Why? They are selling pot. Should dominos stop putting pictures of pizza's on signs?

I like the fact that dispensaries aren't embarrassed about what they are. They should be proud of what they are doing, not try to hide it.
 

EdGreyfox

Well-Known Member
Why should we compromise? Because if the growers and patients won't compromise eventually idiots like Romer will be able to drum up enough support to pass the overly restrictive laws they want, at which point were all screwed. You have to give a little to get a little, and people need to learn to play a whole new kind of game if we want to keep it legal.

Folks, i deal with the government as part of my job every day (I'm an accountant), and that old saying about not being able to beat city hall really is true. You may think you've won, but if you piss off the powers that be eventually they are going to find a way to nail you. In the long run it's a lot easier and cheaper to just cut a deal with the bastards and let them have their slice of the pie. Your typical politician is usually only after two things- money, and political "victories" they can spin for the voters so that they get reelected. The victory doesn't have to be real, it just has to sound good in a sound bite. I'll admit that Romer may be motivated by ideology, which makes it even more important to compromise with him since he won't give up until he gets at least some of what he wants. Yes, I'm a cynic, but I've spent to many years working for/against the government and big business to have any illusions left about how these people operate.

Btw eagle, Outside the smoking community we don't have nearly as much support as you think we do. As I said before, a lot of the middle and upper class people who aren't part of the community have some issues with the way things are going, and if they continue to see the system being abused they aren't going to back the growers/patients up and tell their reps to lay off. Middle/Upper class people over the age of 40 have a ton of influence (and money to spend), so as long as they aren't happy with the situation you can count on the politicians to keep stirring the pot. I don't like the idea of new regulations any more then you do, but I'm trying to be realistic and work out the best deal we can get before the bastards are able to force something worse down our throats.
 

Lucius Vorenus

Well-Known Member
Why? They are selling pot. Should dominos stop putting pictures of pizza's on signs?

I like the fact that dispensaries aren't embarrassed about what they are. They should be proud of what they are doing, not try to hide it.
With this mentality we will never make headway. Should pharmacies start putting pics of Vicodin, Insulin and Antibiotics on their signs?

Ignorance is what has kept this prohibition in place for so many years. It's time for us to be smarter than them.
 

FlyLikeAnEagle

Well-Known Member
Edgrey I understand what you are saying but I disagree when it comes to this particular issue. You seem to have the attitude that these politicians are doing us some kind of favor when the exact opposite is true. They fought tooth and nail to keep this off the ballot in the first place, do you remember when we originally tried to get this on the ballot? The Secretary of State at the time hid thousands of signatures and committed fraud, only after her death did we find out what she did. We didnt get where we are with the help of any of them, this has been a complete grass roots effort that they have been powerless to stop and they know it.

As far as public support just a week ago a nationwide poll showed 81% were for medical marijuana and over 50% were for complete legalization. I predict within 10 years we will have complete legalization, hopefully we can keep it out of the hands of big business.
 
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