COBS,monos and lenses..

Resinhound

Resinhound

Well-Known Member
Hey all,

Thought id drop in and see the led gurus about some questions I have.Im currently running an amare solarsystem 440 (2 220se)in a 20 x 42in space.And only my second experience with led lighting.The first being budget chinese leds that I didnt care for,the majority of my experience is with fluorescents.The cob with lenses and mono combination makes me feel like im not getting the most out of my lights,with the lenses on im seeing some intensity issues on my upper leaves/buds below 22in and I feel like the monos arent performing well at that height.

So my question is should I remove my lenses and lower my lights to ~12in or leave em on and keep my light at 22-24.

Any input or questions welcome,thanks guys
 
Humanrob

Humanrob

Well-Known Member
That's a tough call. Somewhere in this section, someone with a PAR meter did a test with lenses on and off, and the difference was significant -- so I can see why you might feel that the monos don't have enough effective reach to be useful at the optimal COB distances.

I would contact Amare, and ask them when they were designing the light, how did the testing go? What in their R&D proved to them that this combination of lights in this configuration was the most effective? That might be the most accurate answer you're going to get.

If you do contact them, I'd be interested in knowing their answer.
 
Resinhound

Resinhound

Well-Known Member
Humanrob said:
That's a tough call. Somewhere in this section, someone with a PAR meter did a test with lenses on and off, and the difference was significant -- so I can see why you might feel that the monos don't have enough effective reach to be useful at the optimal COB distances.

I would contact Amare, and ask them when they were designing the light, how did the testing go? What in their R&D proved to them that this combination of lights in this configuration was the most effective? That might be the most accurate answer you're going to get.

If you do contact them, I'd be interested in knowing their answer.
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Thanks for the input rob,yep I contacted them lets see what they say.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
No lenses is more intense, of course. Faster dispersion, however. Another important concern for me personally was protection of the LES. Finally, no lens, no way they'll be rated for damp environments like grow rooms.

If they made a waterproof COB, tho... is anybody listening?
 
Humanrob

Humanrob

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
No lenses is more intense, of course. Faster dispersion, however. Another important concern for me personally was protection of the LES. Finally, no lens, no way they'll be rated for damp environments like grow rooms.

If they made a waterproof COB, tho... is anybody listening?
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ttystikk, just want to clarify.... do you feel that any light using a COB that does not have a lens is not safe for a grow room?
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Humanrob said:
ttystikk, just want to clarify.... do you feel that any light using a COB that does not have a lens is not safe for a grow room?
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The COB is safe for the growroom, but the growroom environment is potentially tough on the chips themselves; water and chemical overspray, plants and people rubbing on the LES.
 
Resinhound

Resinhound

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
The COB is safe for the growroom, but the growroom environment is potentially tough on the chips themselves; water and chemical overspray, plants and people rubbing on the LES.
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Heh yes good thing foliar feeding is out by now,best thing I think is just run as intended with the lenses.Thanks guys
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Resinhound said:
Heh yes good thing foliar feeding is out by now,best thing I think is just run as intended with the lenses.Thanks guys
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Maybe you can get away with bare COBs in an overhead situation but with the vertical approach I'm taking I knew there would be no avoiding it.
 
Resinhound

Resinhound

Well-Known Member
I hadnt even considered those aspects I was just thinking in terms of effectivness heh and I guess a light with a blown cob sucks so ya lol (im medicated:bigjoint:)
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Resinhound said:
I hadnt even considered those aspects I was just thinking in terms of effectivness heh and I guess a light with a blown cob sucks so ya lol (im medicated:bigjoint:)
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No lens beats lens in terms of total intensity every time. But these things are expensive, and I want to protect my long term investment.
 
heckler73

heckler73

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
No lenses is more intense, of course. Faster dispersion, however.
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o_O
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caustic_(optics)

I believe you are making a thinly technical argument there. If the sun can burn a piece of wood with a converging lens, it is increasing the transmitted intensity, by definition.
However, in this particular context, I don't know if these manufacturers are really putting much thought into the designs. They may just be buying whatever is on sale from the Zhong Guo ACTION MAO crew, and tossing it in there.

http://www.newport.com/Optics-Formulas/144956/1033/content.aspx

 
Resinhound

Resinhound

Well-Known Member
Well amare answered back here is their response..

The surrounding 10 diodes per COB x 4 = 40 5w diodes pulling ~2.5w = 100w, which will veg. a 3' x 3@22". You can also flip on the COBs for explosive growth. The surrounding monochrome 5w is intended for tuning the spectrum to be more canna-specific, filling in the bands needed to allow cannabis plants to reach it's full genetic potential. We are the only COB panel that features this pat-pending design and were the first commercial panel featuring CREE CX COBs.

The Eclipses come features 120 degree reflectors and 90 degrees lenses. For the lenses picture a cone with the point on top (your light) and the cone is your light beam being 90 degrees from the lenses. You will notice the farther down cone, the footprint/coverage increase in relation to the distance. The 90 lenses also needs ~20" for each COB/monochrome diodes footprint to overlap for maximum coverage and intensity. Your Eclipse generates more peak ppfd than a 1000hps@24" so there's no need to run it any closer than 20", but we recommend 22" with the lenses installed. Your Eclipse generates 1800umol+@12" and ~1400umol@18". The light light saturation of cannabis is ~1500umol with Equatorial strains up to 1750umol so there's no need to ever run it closer than 18" since it's the point of diminishing returns. More intra-canopy penetration will be achieve being farther away. Try taking your open hand at arm's length and hold it up to a light, look at you hand with the behind it and slowly move it towards your face so the fingers will be over you eyes. At the same time notice how your peripheral vision is slowly reduce as you hand move closer to your face and then finally till you can barely see past you fingers to see the light. Now imagine if that was a leaf and you can get an idea that the closer you are to the canopy, the less intra-canopy penetration. Try to imagine your Eclipse as a micro-1000hps with a footprint of 2.5' x 2.5' and treat it accordingly.
 
heckler73

heckler73

Well-Known Member
Resinhound said:
Well amare answered back here is their response..

The surrounding 10 diodes per COB x 4 = 40 5w diodes pulling ~2.5w = 100w, which will veg. a 3' x 3@22". You can also flip on the COBs for explosive growth. The surrounding monochrome 5w is intended for tuning the spectrum to be more canna-specific, filling in the bands needed to allow cannabis plants to reach it's full genetic potential. We are the only COB panel that features this pat-pending design and were the first commercial panel featuring CREE CX COBs.
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Based on...? :-? :lol:
 
Resinhound

Resinhound

Well-Known Member
heckler73 said:
Based on...? :-? :lol:
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Not being a huge tech guy I was fine until the last sentence.Im hoping to get some input from you led guys as far as what you think about this response.I hear ya on the specific spectrum stuff,seems like bullshit to me but thats why im asking you guys:)
 
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