Clones from triploid reverting
- Thread starter t.rex.
- Start date
by the number of leaves coming from each node.
vasioplunk
Member
You can go scientific about it and use, Feulgen's stain(root print) and a microscope
Hey vasioplunk, have you ever tried that yourself? i suppose you could root some cuttings,stain them, and then compare back to the original plant. i am also wondering if some of the clones might change sex, based on whichever chromosome(s) becomes recessive/dormant/lost?
if i could take some rooted clones down to a lab at CSU, i would def. be interested in trying this method, because, unfortunately, i don't have a badass lab with scopes and stains and reagents and all that jazz, here at the crib.
i am going to take 4 cuts off him later today, and see what turns up.
MrBaker
Well-Known Member
I can't see why a clone were revert back to diploid if the mother is triploid. One would assume that a clone is a genetic copy and thus also triploid.
Or are you saying that you had a triploid mom that seemingly reverted to diploid. In which case I wouldn't think that the mom was a "trip" in the first place.
I also go to a CSU
Or are you saying that you had a triploid mom that seemingly reverted to diploid. In which case I wouldn't think that the mom was a "trip" in the first place.
I also go to a CSU
I can't see why a clone were revert back to diploid if the mother is triploid. One would assume that a clone is a genetic copy and thus also triploid.
Or are you saying that you had a triploid mom that seemingly reverted to diploid. In which case I wouldn't think that the mom was a "trip" in the first place.
I also go to a CSU
yeah, CANNA SMOKERS UNIVERSITY, right? haha j/k no but seriously, you must really be proud of yourself.
anyway, i have read and heard varying accounts of cloning triploids, and they had not retained one of the three chromosomes. i will know for myself in 7-10 days.
vasioplunk
Member
I apologize if this post gets long, am a hermit so gimme a break hermits get lonely
I am currently experimenting with colchicine mitotic inhibitor in order to produce polyploidy plants, but I found out through a lot of research polyploidy plant is not really what I want for my breed. Because if it is poly. It will be harder to genetically manipulate at a later time using protoplast fusion. With that said the Root print works, it is how they discovered diploid polyploidy back in the day, I am a ignorant amateur, so dates etc I do not know. Sometime I guess in 1800’s someone correct me if am wrong. The plant could show polyploidy traits and not be poly. It could show diploid and not be diploid. The only way to really know is to take root prints. So, it is pretty essential for the quest. Really man it’s incredible for 1000 dollars you can have a good lab setup. 800x or so microscope and all the stuff necessary for protoplast fusion. In my method this is how am going about this. Am currently doing microprogation, and colchicine because I have yet to come up with the funds for protoplast fusion. I’m a poor amateur. Until the terminators ddNTPs get cheaper for dna profiling. And I can get funds up for a mass spectrometer. I am out on the DNA profiling and checking CBD/THC content.
#1: perfect technique for tissue culture / micropropagation.
#2: Acquire equipment and chemicals for protoplast fusion. It is costly the chemicals that is. For example the Polyethylene Glycol will cost for concentrations that will take effect in reasonable time.
#3: Then you will want to increase the chromosome sets, because the fusion of two separate plant cells will create a sterile hybrid. This is where the colchicine comes to play to create a polyploidy.
#4: Dna Profiling. Sequencing only specific genes. This costs some money, but here is the deal 89 % of cannabis is the same as hops(overlaps). And Genbank has that 89% published. So, most of the work has already been done. And you can find fragments of DNA sequences of certain genes and their effects online. Am sure people are already in full swing on this. But it costs a lot of cash. With the current market and technology.
I have all the info for all of this to do at home. It all can be found online.. You gotta do a bit of research and choose goals you can accomplish within your means. Microprogation, and protoplast fusion is totally reasonable. Including, changing the chromosome count. You should be able to find a detailed tutorial on doing the root prints online. Just spend the time doing the research. Btw I would take your clones take a piece of the root and do a print, check it then you will know for sure. Also maybe it would be better to clone these in a tissue culture from the roots that exhibit the polyploidy chromosome count. The key to any genetic manipulation will be getting your technique for tissue culture down pat.
Note: I don’t claim to be educated, or a professional or even know what am talking about. I could be just a insane wack job hiding in some basement. So, take it for what its worth.
I am currently experimenting with colchicine mitotic inhibitor in order to produce polyploidy plants, but I found out through a lot of research polyploidy plant is not really what I want for my breed. Because if it is poly. It will be harder to genetically manipulate at a later time using protoplast fusion. With that said the Root print works, it is how they discovered diploid polyploidy back in the day, I am a ignorant amateur, so dates etc I do not know. Sometime I guess in 1800’s someone correct me if am wrong. The plant could show polyploidy traits and not be poly. It could show diploid and not be diploid. The only way to really know is to take root prints. So, it is pretty essential for the quest. Really man it’s incredible for 1000 dollars you can have a good lab setup. 800x or so microscope and all the stuff necessary for protoplast fusion. In my method this is how am going about this. Am currently doing microprogation, and colchicine because I have yet to come up with the funds for protoplast fusion. I’m a poor amateur. Until the terminators ddNTPs get cheaper for dna profiling. And I can get funds up for a mass spectrometer. I am out on the DNA profiling and checking CBD/THC content.
#1: perfect technique for tissue culture / micropropagation.
#2: Acquire equipment and chemicals for protoplast fusion. It is costly the chemicals that is. For example the Polyethylene Glycol will cost for concentrations that will take effect in reasonable time.
#3: Then you will want to increase the chromosome sets, because the fusion of two separate plant cells will create a sterile hybrid. This is where the colchicine comes to play to create a polyploidy.
#4: Dna Profiling. Sequencing only specific genes. This costs some money, but here is the deal 89 % of cannabis is the same as hops(overlaps). And Genbank has that 89% published. So, most of the work has already been done. And you can find fragments of DNA sequences of certain genes and their effects online. Am sure people are already in full swing on this. But it costs a lot of cash. With the current market and technology.
I have all the info for all of this to do at home. It all can be found online.. You gotta do a bit of research and choose goals you can accomplish within your means. Microprogation, and protoplast fusion is totally reasonable. Including, changing the chromosome count. You should be able to find a detailed tutorial on doing the root prints online. Just spend the time doing the research. Btw I would take your clones take a piece of the root and do a print, check it then you will know for sure. Also maybe it would be better to clone these in a tissue culture from the roots that exhibit the polyploidy chromosome count.
The key to any genetic manipulation will be getting your technique for tissue culture down pat.Note: I don’t claim to be educated, or a professional or even know what am talking about. I could be just a insane wack job hiding in some basement. So, take it for what its worth.
vasioplunk
Member
O Ya I forgot, double post my bad
Sterility, and frequency will be an issue. You will have to trial and error it and selectively breed. I am still in the process of research. This was my experiment. I take female(feminized by CS) and male, change the chromosome count, by saturating seeds in colchicine(testing by root print). Then cross the two. Sterility has been an issue at least for me. I am changing my method to tissue culture. Because, of the length of time of breeding, growing plants to maturity etc. So my research has lead me to something else am trying to perfect. Waiting on results still.. I am hopen by going to tissue culture. It will give me greater control and better observations.
Sterility, and frequency will be an issue. You will have to trial and error it and selectively breed. I am still in the process of research. This was my experiment. I take female(feminized by CS) and male, change the chromosome count, by saturating seeds in colchicine(testing by root print). Then cross the two. Sterility has been an issue at least for me. I am changing my method to tissue culture. Because, of the length of time of breeding, growing plants to maturity etc. So my research has lead me to something else am trying to perfect. Waiting on results still.. I am hopen by going to tissue culture. It will give me greater control and better observations.
The number of leaves at each node does not correlate with the number of chromosome sets. Trifoliate is the term used to describe a plant with 3 leaves at the node. Of course a triploid plant could be trifoliate by chance, but to the best of my understanding they are not at all indicative of each other.
Mutant plants always interest me. I haven't had any mutant plants perform well yet, but I keep thinking one of these days somebody will get some kind of freak super plant to show us..
Mutant plants always interest me. I haven't had any mutant plants perform well yet, but I keep thinking one of these days somebody will get some kind of freak super plant to show us..
vasioplunk
Member
You would be surprised how many cannabis strains are polyploidy. I wouldnt doubt genetic modification is more wide spread than we would think. Because if am able to doit. Then it shouldnt be a problem for some big breeder with a lot of cash to doit. And they dont have to disclose anything. For example World of Seeds Afghan Kush special.
burninjay, your post has opened doors. if it is not a triploid, then it could be used to breed, and i could attempt to stabilize this 'trifoliate' trait? is that a trait or a mutation?
maybe more often than not people have a mutant diploid that reverts to normal growth when cloned, instead of what i had originally thought and heard about. i guess the cuttings i have taken will be the answer.
