Christianity has been debunked once and for all

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Stoney McFried

Stoney McFried

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I'm sorry, but the eye witness accounts you're referring to aren't even from the same time period.Please show us links from National Geographic and the Smithsonian that say Jesus Existed, and was the son of "God".
When we take hallucinogens, the things we experience are flavored by our own perceptions and experiences.I daresay if you had never heard of Christ, you wouldn't have seen him in your visions. Your hallucinations were influenced by the culture you live in. What is true for you is not true for others.You have your own path, and you believe there's a Christ in it. Fine. But my path does not include this particular faith, and I wish for that to be recognized and respected as well.I think that's what most of the athiests and agnostics are saying.Faith is individual,not collective. Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion.:peace:
x15 said:
1. - the eye witness accounts, historical documentation from the different institutions (which I've named already) and archeological digs, plus i studied law and i have peace officer status (don't be alarmed, i'm not a policeman but a fireman, we go through some of the same training as police, hey - you asked :) ) so became familiar with evidence

2. - experientially, because the records seemed to be correct I still did not believe them for a long time. it wasn't until through the use of peyote and lots of lsd the spirit realm was revealed to me all too convincingly, over & over again. it was in this realm i met christ (the same guy who died and resurrected spoken of in the bible)

put the two together and he (christ) has been indelibly etched into my life experiences - i'm not the only one who has experienced this, read a few posts up

i might add, richard "rick" griffin used to airbrush surfboards in our town many moons ago and he had a conversion experience that left a lot of us thinking he had gone off the deep end until it started happening to us

btw, for the record, i'm not hearing anything new here, i thought the same way

if you're familiar with higher criticism they use some of the same arguments as some here, saying the biblical books were incorrect, it was taught in colleges, until higher criticism was disproved through archeology and stylistic studies (study of writing styles)
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x15

x15

Well-Known Member
Stoney McFried said:
Like I said, many fictional books use actual locations. And what do Plato and Socrates have to do with Christ?They were born way before he supposedly was, so if you're trying to say they mentioned Jesus, I believe you're quite mistaken.
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hi, :)

true.

the reason i mention plato & socrates is because the same critical thinking applied to the study of their ancient writings is the same study applied to the biblical books, that's all, nothing special :)

back to the bible books, the way i see this is that people from different walks of life, separated by time and location wrote down that they had an encounter with someone/a being who said it/he was God the creator. these people wrote down what this God/being said to them. prophecies, lineages, extra natural phenomenon. the thread through all of them is that they all wrote about a coming messiah "the christ" who would give us a special spirit guide (The Comforter/Holy Spirit) to lead us in the heavenly & earthly realms, i dunno, i like this :) love is better than hate :)
 
x15

x15

Well-Known Member
hom36rown said:
Even if he did exist, he was nothing more than some guy with a messiah complex. Do you believe every part of the bible, do you think noah really gathered up two of every animal, and the world was flooded, do you believe moses parted the red sea, do you believe in giants? Its pretty obvious the bible is just a bunch of stories.
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yup, i do believe this but do not understand a lot of it nor agree with it - there is a difference :)
 
hom36rown

hom36rown

Well-Known Member
x15 said:
yup, i do believe this but do not understand a lot of it nor agree with it - there is a difference :)
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then theres obviously no reasoning with you, so I'll just give up. I mean the bible says it happened... how can I argue with that.
 
Stoney McFried

Stoney McFried

Well-Known Member
Sorry.I don't believe that someone who is supposed to be our"Father" would really allow the things to happen on this earth that he does if he "loved" us.Even in the Bible are stories of his vengeance. This is me speaking as a mother, knowing that I would never punish my children for an eternity just for defying me. So, like my sig quote says, even if you were to prove to me there is a god like mentioned in the bible, I still wouldn't worship him.
x15 said:
hi, :)

true.

the reason i mention plato & socrates is because the same critical thinking applied to the study of their ancient writings is the same study applied to the biblical books, that's all, nothing special :)

back to the bible books, the way i see this is that people from different walks of life, separated by time and location wrote down that they had an encounter with someone/a being who said it/he was God the creator. these people wrote down what this God/being said to them. prophecies, lineages, extra natural phenomenon. the thread through all of them is that they all wrote about a coming messiah "the christ" who would give us a special spirit guide (The Comforter/Holy Spirit) to lead us in the heavenly & earthly realms, i dunno, i like this :) love is better than hate :)
Click to expand...
 
x15

x15

Well-Known Member
hi, :)

Stoney McFried said:
I'm sorry, but the eye witness accounts you're referring to aren't even from the same time period.
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the institutes or the bible?

in regards to the biblical books, the book of John (gospel), Matthew the tax collector's book, Mark's book, the books of Peter and the writings of Paul where the same time period. these guys claim they were eyewitnesses.

one of several quotes: "For we did not follow cunningly devised fables, when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty." the book of 2nd Peter 1:16


Stoney McFried said:
Please show us links from National Geographic and the Smithsonian that say Jesus Existed, and was the son of "God".
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to clarify I said these institutions rely on the bible as accurate and even use the books in it as reference material for their digs. so, if they trust it...

here's a letterhead from the smithsonian institute, quote:

"...much of the Bible, in particular the historical books of the old testament, are as accurate historical documents as any that we have from antiquity and are in fact more accurate than many of the Egyptian, Mesopotamian, or Greek histories..."

although, they (smithsonian institute) do not believe it is inerrant (without error), and they also have a problem with the first 12 chapters in genesis

reference - http://csnradio.com/tema/misc/SmithsonianLetter.pdf

national geographic "National Geographic Essential Visual History of the Bible"
http://shop.nationalgeographic.com/product/crossell/4245.html

if you do a search online you'll find thousands of references from many reputable institutions using the reliability of the bible


Stoney McFried said:
When we take hallucinogens, the things we experience are flavored by our own perceptions and experiences.I daresay if you had never heard of Christ, you wouldn't have seen him in your visions.
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huge assumption on your part.


Stoney McFried said:
Your hallucinations were influenced by the culture you live in. What is true for you is not true for others.
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I agree it can but also not always, too many factors involved

rational decisions about your observations are made all day long. no one needs anything "special" to investigate the bible records, they should at least look into it prior to lobbing stones (not saying u r :) )

belief in the bible once one examines it (putting aside our preconceived ideas about it which some of the atheists/agnostics have made here) objectively we come to a conclusion based on objective studies (feelings aside)


Stoney McFried said:
You have your own path, and you believe there's a Christ in it. Fine. But my path does not include this particular faith, and I wish for that to be recognized and respected as well.
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agreed, no problem with this. :)

i don't think we even know your path, you haven't stated one. i will respect it though :)


Stoney McFried said:
I think that's what most of the athiests and agnostics are saying.Faith is individual,not collective. Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion.:peace:
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no problem with this either :)

i will call someone on something regardless what it is - to clarify the subject at hand - which is nothing different than what you guys do in here all the time on riu when it comes to growing

:)
 
JoeBananas

JoeBananas

Well-Known Member
x15 said:
nope, I'm not programmed. I used to be an atheist but the evidence is overwhelming to the fact that Jesus did live, died and rose from the dead. i spent 2 an a half years studying this before I was convinced

the bible is used as a reference because it is accurate and reliable. it is used by the National Geographic Society, Smithsonian Institute and universities from all over the world for archeological digs and investigations

nevertheless, you can believe what you want, that's on your head not mine. i'm trying to be objective here :)

I'm willing to listen to you if you can site any historical, archeological, or political record (from that time period) that contradicts the biblical accounts

i'll take the high road on this one and not resort to name calling.

bless you
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Must have done a bad job in your studies. The bible ripped off most if not all of its stories. So its not a reputable source.

This is why I say you are programed. You have not logic in your argument. Just blind faith that fuels your ignorant fire.


How about you first prove to me the existence of jesus Christ. You can only use factual references.

BTW the bible is not a factual reference.
 
Stoney McFried

Stoney McFried

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry...the gospels you quoted are all part of the bible.Therefore, not real.
From the Smithsonian letter, here is an excerpt which sums up how they feel about the bible and its historical accuracy.
"The Biblical writers did not pretend they were giving a complete history; instead they constantly refer us to other sources for full historical details, sources such as "The Annals of the Kings of Judah" (or Israel). It is therefore not possible to try to "prove" the Bible by means of checking its historical or scientific accuracy. The only "proof" to which it can be subjected is this: Does it correctly portray the God-human relationship? In the best analysis, the Bible is a religious book, not an historical document."
And the national geographic link is a book they're selling on the visual history of the bible.Says nothing about them believing it to be historically accurate.
As for my assumption regarding your hallucinogenic experience, it wasn't.You said Christ was revealed to you through tripping, in a nutshell.:leaf:

x15 said:
hi, :)



the institutes or the bible?

in regards to the biblical books, the book of John (gospel), Matthew the tax collector's book, Mark's book, the books of Peter and the writings of Paul where the same time period. these guys claim they were eyewitnesses.

one of several quotes: "For we did not follow cunningly devised fables, when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty." the book of 2nd Peter 1:16





to clarify I said these institutions rely on the bible as accurate and even use the books in it as reference material for their digs. so, if they trust it...

here's a letterhead from the smithsonian institute, quote:

"...much of the Bible, in particular the historical books of the old testament, are as accurate historical documents as any that we have from antiquity and are in fact more accurate than many of the Egyptian, Mesopotamian, or Greek histories..."

although, they (smithsonian institute) do not believe it is inerrant (without error), and they also have a problem with the first 12 chapters in genesis

reference - http://csnradio.com/tema/misc/SmithsonianLetter.pdf

national geographic "National Geographic Essential Visual History of the Bible"
http://shop.nationalgeographic.com/product/crossell/4245.html

if you do a search online you'll find thousands of references from many reputable institutions using the reliability of the bible




huge assumption on your part.





I agree it can but also not always, too many factors involved

rational decisions about your observations are made all day long. no one needs anything "special" to investigate the bible records, they should at least look into it prior to lobbing stones (not saying u r :) )

belief in the bible once one examines it (putting aside our preconceived ideas about it which some of the atheists/agnostics have made here) objectively we come to a conclusion based on objective studies (feelings aside)




agreed, no problem with this. :)

i don't think we even know your path, you haven't stated one. i will respect it though :)




no problem with this either :)

i will call someone on something regardless what it is - to clarify the subject at hand - which is nothing different than what you guys do in here all the time on riu when it comes to growing

:)
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x15

x15

Well-Known Member
Stoney McFried said:
I'm sorry...the gospels you quoted are all part of the bible. Therefore, not real.
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<shrug>you assume too much</shrug>

smithsonian, national geographic are a good source for references, they like me enjoy studying the bible looks like good company to me.


Stoney McFried said:
And the national geographic link is a book they're selling on the visual history of the bible.Says nothing about them believing it to be historically accurate.
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spend a little time on the national geographic site and you'll see quickly what the think of the validity of the bible.

Stoney McFried said:
As for my assumption regarding your hallucinogenic experience, it wasn't.You said Christ was revealed to you through tripping, in a nutshell.:leaf:
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sigh.

i never said i was hallucinating. please don't misrepresent what i've said.

i said i was in the spirit realm.
 
Stoney McFried

Stoney McFried

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03-20-2009, 05:22 PM
x15

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hom36rown
what evidence exactly do you have that jesus died and rose from the dead?


1. - the eye witness accounts, historical documentation from the different institutions (which I've named already) and archeological digs, plus i studied law and i have peace officer status (don't be alarmed, i'm not a policeman but a fireman, we go through some of the same training as police, hey - you asked :smile: ) so became familiar with evidence

2. - experientially, because the records seemed to be correct I still did not believe them for a long time. it wasn't until through the use of peyote and lots of lsd the spirit realm was revealed to me all too convincingly, over & over again. it was in this realm i met christ (the same guy who died and resurrected spoken of in the bible)

put the two together and he (christ) has been indelibly etched into my life experiences - i'm not the only one who has experienced this, read a few posts up

i might add, richard "rick" griffin used to airbrush surfboards in our town many moons ago and he had a conversion experience that left a lot of us thinking he had gone off the deep end until it started happening to us

btw, for the record, i'm not hearing anything new here, i thought the same way

if you're familiar with higher criticism they use some of the same arguments as some here, saying the biblical books were incorrect, it was taught in colleges, until higher criticism was disproved through archeology and stylistic studies (study of writing styles)
I don't assume anything.I'm pointing out the facts.Here is your post in which you say the spirit realm was revealed to you through lsd and peyote. Therefore, you were hallucinating, cuz that's what those drugs make you do.I don't have to twist anyone's words to make a point. You can believe what you want.But no references you've posted are based in fact.The bible is not fact, it's religious fiction, and one of your links even said so.Sorry to seem like I'm being mean,but it is what it is.
x15 said:
<shrug>you assume too much</shrug>

smithsonian, national geographic are a good source for references, they like me enjoy studying the bible looks like good company to me.




spend a little time on the national geographic site and you'll see quickly what the think of the validity of the bible.



sigh.

i never said i was hallucinating. please don't misrepresent what i've said.

i said i was in the spirit realm.
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x15

x15

Well-Known Member
Stoney McFried said:
...Sorry to seem like I'm being mean,but it is what it is.
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sigh & shrug

you post way too fast which tells me a lot about you

read carefully through my posts and you'll see I said that this spirit realm is also triggered by sunsets, love, travel, prayer, coffee, cannabis...

it is true peyote & lsd can make one hallucinate but they also open doors of the conscience mind & reveal spiritual things

if you are familiar with john mack's work (harvard university) he says there are many ways to get to a spiritual realm, andrew weil says this also and uses the example of meditation
 
Stoney McFried

Stoney McFried

Well-Known Member
Now who's assuming? I post fast because I'm smart, and I can read a lot very quickly.
Notice how, when different folks enter the spiritual realm,they see different things?That's because it's all interpreted by YOU,the individual. YOU are your own god. But you'll never believe me,and you'll continue to say your way is THE way.And you'll continue to say that the bible verifies this...but lets think of it this way:

L. Ron Hubbard wrote Dianetics. He believes there are aliens living in you and you must get them out using some sort of meter,and some ritual bullshit until you become the alien that you are, or thetan,blah, blah, all logical people laugh,the nuts make it a religion.
The Bible was written by one or more unknown authors, most certainly men of their times.The Bible states than an invisible space man in the sky created the earth and everything on it in six thousand years,sacrificed a son because we were so sinful he was gonna kill us, but instead decided it was quicker to kill Jr.,then bring him back, (and take him to heaven without any evidence of him actually being real),and we all get to burn forever if we don't agree.But he loves us. All the logical people laugh, and the nuts make it a religion.
x15 said:
sigh & shrug

you post way too fast which tells me a lot about you

read carefully through my posts and you'll see I said that this spirit realm is also triggered by sunsets, love, travel, prayer, coffee, cannabis...

it is true peyote & lsd can make one hallucinate but they also open doors of the conscience mind & reveal spiritual things

if you are familiar with john mack's work (harvard university) he says there are many ways to get to a spiritual realm, andrew weil says this also and uses the example of meditation
Click to expand...
 
wackymack

wackymack

Well-Known Member
Stoney McFried said:
Now who's assuming? I post fast because I'm smart, and I can read a lot very quickly.
Notice how, when different folks enter the spiritual realm,they see different things?That's because it's all interpreted by YOU,the individual. YOU are your own god. But you'll never believe me,and you'll continue to say your way is THE way.And you'll continue to say that the bible verifies this...but lets think of it this way:

L. Ron Hubbard wrote Dianetics. He believes there are aliens living in you and you must get them out using some sort of meter,and some ritual bullshit until you become the alien that you are, or thetan,blah, blah, all logical people laugh,the nuts make it a religion.
The Bible was written by one or more unknown authors, most certainly men of their times.The Bible states than an invisible space man in the sky created the earth and everything on it in six thousand years,sacrificed a son because we were so sinful he was gonna kill us, but instead decided it was quicker to kill Jr.,then bring him back, (and take him to heaven without any evidence of him actually being real),and we all get to burn forever if we don't agree.But he loves us. All the logical people laugh, and the nuts make it a religion.
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miss stoney,dont you look at the tags? appearantly you wasting away by talkin the same nonscense over and over to the same person. take a look at the tags girl and then go make yourself some tea;-)
 
Stoney McFried

Stoney McFried

Well-Known Member
Ah.I see now.Once again, satan, you give me knowledge.Why does he get mutiple accounts?
wackymack said:
miss stoney,dont you look at the tags? appearantly you wasting away by talkin the same nonscense over and over to the same person. take a look at the tags girl and then go make yourself some tea;-)
Click to expand...
 
wackymack

wackymack

Well-Known Member
Stoney McFried said:
Ah.I see now.Once again, satan, you give me knowledge.Why does he get mutiple accounts?
Click to expand...

everyone hears voices in their heads,some people need the feeling of wholeness and completion. some need to fulfill the problems that they create. they need to complete the problem by presenting it to the table, and on that table, you have a feast of bullshit and lies. the voices are feeding you the shit that you read. if you dont eat then the feast will go to "waste" and decay,soon that garbage will be forgotten about and never seen again. what do the voices inside your head say?
 
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