businessmen
Active Member
I am finally going to try adjusting my waters ph. Can't figure any other reason my plants die off later in life. What's in the ph down? Is there organic types? My RO is at least 7.6
Can you adjust water PH Organically?
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brownbearclan
Active Member
Is baking soda and vinegar organic? =D
kingofqueen
Well-Known Member
I currently use lemon juice concentrate in an organic grow . You can use apple cider vinegar too .
GuerrillaGreenery
Active Member
Yep all of those kitchen ingredients are very good at keeping ph in check. IME PH adjustment in organic soil is really done automatically. As the microbes break down the organic material in the soil the PH will adjust to the right level that the soil needs to stay alive. You can kind of relax. And another thing ive noticed is that when you make teas and bubble your solution from anywhere from 24-72hrs the ph gets right the perfect level. hope that helped. GOOD LUCK BROTHER+++
GuerrillaGreenery
Active Member
Yep all of those kitchen ingredients are very good at keeping ph in check. IME PH adjustment in organic soil is really done automatically. As the microbes break down the organic material in the soil the PH will adjust to the right level that the soil needs to stay alive. You can kind of relax. And another thing ive noticed is that when you make teas and bubble your solution from anywhere from 24-72hrs the ph gets right the perfect level. hope that helped. GOOD LUCK BROTHER+++
businessmen
Active Member
I've heard alot of those are all real temporary.
wannaquickee
Well-Known Member
dolomite lime/ sulfur but it takes away..lime will bring your shit back to neutral
Nullis
Moderator
Most people don't need any additional product or ingredient to lower the pH of the soil. Many of the nutrients and amendments that we add to our soil mixes are quite acidic already; so the concern more frequently leans towards getting it back into the 6-7 range. This is why you'll hear so much about dolomite limestone and related materials such as oyster and eggshell which are comprised of primarily of calcium carbonate. These are the most popular organic amendments for adjusting the pH upwards to what is appropriate. Dolomite limestone is calcium magnesium carbonate and so also provides for Ca and Mg (long term) whereas egg/oyster shell is calcium carbonate and provides Ca. When using eggshells, they must be pulverized in order to work faster. The finer the particle size is, the faster the lime can get to work. Ideally you could use both powdered dolomite in conjunction with something less granulated like pulverized egg or oyster shell.
Soil biota do work in our favor to adjust pH, and as the organisms in the soil and the plant utilize what is available the pH will change. Typically you will notice your pH raising for the aforementioned reasons. The exception to this is if your water source generally is of a high pH (above 7) with lots of dissolved solids, as is usually the case in the western states. Check the pH of the water you use, and also check the run-off. If you really do need to help lower the pH of the soil, there are various organic products you can use. Gypsum is a soil amendment that will lower soil pH and provide some elemental sulfur. You can use things like citric acid (lemon/lime juice) and apple cider vinegar as a temporary fix. Add a few drops to your irrigation water and see what difference it makes to the pH. These things shouldn't hinder you micro-life if the usage is kept minimal.
Baking soda in particular I would shy away from using to raise soil pH. It can be done, but consider what baking soda is: sodium bicarbonate. Sodium (Na+) is among those ions associated with something known as salinity. Plants are able to absorb water and nutrients through their roots by having increased salinity within those plant tissues. Another key word here is osmosis, but just realize that if the salinity of the soil becomes greater than that of the plant there will be no uptake of water or nutrient into plant tissues. Bicarbonate (HCO3-) may also introduce some problems because it would rather be with Ca2+ than Na+, if there is enough calcium hanging around. This calcium will become unavailable while the Na+ is free to leach from the solution or go on to form another potentially more detrimental salt. Note that I am not a chemist, but if you are please tell me if I am on the right track with this basic explanation.
There is more to consider in organics when thinking about pH. It is just a measure of the potential Hydrogen of any given solution, but is strongly related to availability of nutrients in the soil. What is considered the appropriate range ( 6.2 - 6.8 ) is where most of our nutrients are available but we can increase the availability of nutrients even if the pH happens to be outside of this range. The best way to do this is by introducing mycorrhizae: a symbiotic fungi that plays various roles for the roots including seeking water and nutrients. Then there are organic chelating agents which include humic, fulvic and amino acids. These are molecules that encapsulate other molecules. They can make nutrients available that otherwise would not have been, and shuttle them into the plant. Unlike synthetic chelating agents such as EDTA, the plant can actually absorb humic and fulvic acids and so they have the added benefit of increasing the ability of the nutrient to move within the plant.
Soil biota do work in our favor to adjust pH, and as the organisms in the soil and the plant utilize what is available the pH will change. Typically you will notice your pH raising for the aforementioned reasons. The exception to this is if your water source generally is of a high pH (above 7) with lots of dissolved solids, as is usually the case in the western states. Check the pH of the water you use, and also check the run-off. If you really do need to help lower the pH of the soil, there are various organic products you can use. Gypsum is a soil amendment that will lower soil pH and provide some elemental sulfur. You can use things like citric acid (lemon/lime juice) and apple cider vinegar as a temporary fix. Add a few drops to your irrigation water and see what difference it makes to the pH. These things shouldn't hinder you micro-life if the usage is kept minimal.
Baking soda in particular I would shy away from using to raise soil pH. It can be done, but consider what baking soda is: sodium bicarbonate. Sodium (Na+) is among those ions associated with something known as salinity. Plants are able to absorb water and nutrients through their roots by having increased salinity within those plant tissues. Another key word here is osmosis, but just realize that if the salinity of the soil becomes greater than that of the plant there will be no uptake of water or nutrient into plant tissues. Bicarbonate (HCO3-) may also introduce some problems because it would rather be with Ca2+ than Na+, if there is enough calcium hanging around. This calcium will become unavailable while the Na+ is free to leach from the solution or go on to form another potentially more detrimental salt. Note that I am not a chemist, but if you are please tell me if I am on the right track with this basic explanation.
There is more to consider in organics when thinking about pH. It is just a measure of the potential Hydrogen of any given solution, but is strongly related to availability of nutrients in the soil. What is considered the appropriate range ( 6.2 - 6.8 ) is where most of our nutrients are available but we can increase the availability of nutrients even if the pH happens to be outside of this range. The best way to do this is by introducing mycorrhizae: a symbiotic fungi that plays various roles for the roots including seeking water and nutrients. Then there are organic chelating agents which include humic, fulvic and amino acids. These are molecules that encapsulate other molecules. They can make nutrients available that otherwise would not have been, and shuttle them into the plant. Unlike synthetic chelating agents such as EDTA, the plant can actually absorb humic and fulvic acids and so they have the added benefit of increasing the ability of the nutrient to move within the plant.
businessmen
Active Member
Thanks All, Nullis, wanted to rep u but can't seem to on I phone... so I tested the water I normally use from the water machine at the store and it's very acid. 6.0 at first and came up to 6.5 or so next day. And my runoff from pots is 6.0 or less. Sometimes I use my tap which is over 7.6 and tds is over 600. I flushed with that a bit, got runoff up to low 6.0s. My new home RO is the one in that's a out 7.6. Think I fluctuated my ph to much and shoulda added calmag to RO and ph up. From here on will use half tap, half of that acidic RO
StoneyguyIsAlreadyInUse
Member
The Only Truly Organic way to adjust PH is through aerating your water. When You aerate your H2o Your not only adding oxygen Your driving off the carbon dioxide gases in your water. By doing so, you will see a rise in your pH.
woodsmaneh!
Well-Known Member
I can't back this with science but I add 20% worm castings to my mix along with some compost cow poop and a few other things and my well water ranges from 7.6 to 8 depending on the season. I quit checking pH a couple years ago, it adjusts it's self in the ground.
Medi 1
Well-Known Member
what???..thats isnt how wee set pH at all. and mine dont go up when i do that at all either. airating does nothing to mine but make it slight bit more stable but always has same number as out of the tap. the organic way was already said with potassium bicarbonate....no thats not baking soda.
for thsoe that dont bother pH the foods or water your using about double the amount of foods to get same results. thats what ph will do for us. use klss and get same end result. because its at the most available level. sure they grow at most ph levels but will use more food and leave more behind causing the medium to drop usualy. but us mutrient compnaies love that for more un-needed sales of foods.
elduece
Active Member
That is true. My typical ph test show up as green -7.0 and end up as blue-7.5+ afterwards.
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
That's actually some BS, please don't listen to him. The alkalinity of your water is just as important as the pH. Aerating doesn't do much other than let the Cl- evaporate, which is good for all life.
Nullis is correct. If you are outdoors in soil you shouldn't be needing pH adjustment. If you grow indoors in a soil-less organic media (peat/bark/coco) with organic nutrients, then your nutes should be adjusting your fertigation solution pH to the proper range. When I mix my plant food into my crappy west coast water (8.0 pH with 300+ ppm) it always comes out between 6.3 and 6.6 pH.
pH down is not technically OMRI organic, but provides the best long term pH adjusting properties because they use phosphoric, citric, and nitric acids. if you think acids are not organics, then you need to take a whiff of a burp. And then read about the dark cycle aka citric acid cycle.
If you are indoors and already growing, use pH down/up as needed. If you are indoors and about to plant, mix in the needed pH amendments in slow release form, nullis layed them out. If you are outdoors, your dirt should be healthy and the plants should be regulating rhizosphere pH.
businessmen
Active Member
Is testing runoff a real indicator of soil ph?
