Can anyone diagnose this?

shiva71

Well-Known Member
Hi!
Noticed something wasn't right yesterday and it got worse overnight. 2 week old Ak49 auto in dwc, pH 6.2, ppm rose from 420 to 450 , that tells me she's not feeding so ill drop that. Rising ppm points to burn but it doesn't look like burn to me, more like a deficiency of some kind.
Any ideas?
Cheers!
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shiva71

Well-Known Member
Overnight it spread to the next leaves up, but the deterioration is not at alarming speed. PPM dropped from 360 to 345. Ph was up to 6.4. Lowered that to 5.7, i just want to see how she does with a lower pH, maybe thats the problem...?
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HydroKid239

Well-Known Member
Overnight it spread to the next leaves up, but the deterioration is not at alarming speed. PPM dropped from 360 to 345. Ph was up to 6.4. Lowered that to 5.7, i just want to see how she does with a lower pH, maybe thats the problem...?
View attachment 5262423
I grow in soil, but that looks like calcium deficiency.
 

amneziaHaze

Well-Known Member
How about a res change?
How do you mix your nutes? Maybe you mixed the order and it locked.
How big is your res
And what was the ph last time you lowered it?
 

shiva71

Well-Known Member
I grow in soil, but that looks like calcium deficiency.
Yeah its a possibility. If the ppm goes down again ill give her a good feed and see how she responds.
How about a res change?
How do you mix your nutes? Maybe you mixed the order and it locked.
How big is your res
And what was the ph last time you lowered it?
- yes not a bad idea, it was looking slightly frothy today which i didnt like the look of.
- syringe from bottle A then B im pretty careful to do the right order
- 10 gallon bucket
- it was 5.9, went up to 6.4 now down to 5.7. The damage looks like pH issues possibly. Wanna see if shes happier at a lower pH.
Thanks for responses!!
 

amneziaHaze

Well-Known Member
Thats a crazy increese in 24h. Stupid question but you do shake it like crazy before syringe b?

10gallon is 50L? thats a really big increse in ph. How does the res smell? And what do you use for ph-
 

shiva71

Well-Known Member
Thats a crazy increese in 24h. Stupid question but you do shake it like crazy before syringe b?

10gallon is 50L? thats a really big increse in ph. How does the res smell? And what do you use for ph-
Yeah i give it a good stir before i add the B. Sorry, not 10 gallons its just a standard size bucket 10 litres. No smell yet but like i say a bit frothy which i noticed. Not sure what youre asking about the pH but i just use pH up/down (diluted cos its so damned strong) penwise its an Essentials which has been a fairly reliable bit of kit.
One thing maybe worth saying, i do more of a bubbleponics thing ie i have feeder tubes pumping water into the net pot. As the roots are fairly well developped i turned that off, and thats when the trouble started. I put it back on this morning and she seems a bit perkier, will see how she is tomorrow morning.
Cheers man!
 

amneziaHaze

Well-Known Member
I had a diary here with 10L its normal to have big swings/can happen i would do a full res change its not that much nutes safest option.i would even dunk them in clean water before to clean the roots a little bit.

Some people use random crap for ph- i had to ask.
 

shiva71

Well-Known Member
I had a diary here with 10L its normal to have big swings/can happen i would do a full res change its not that much nutes safest option.i would even dunk them in clean water before to clean the roots a little bit.

Some people use random crap for ph- i had to ask.
Lol no worries pal, ill do a rez change when i get home tonight, cheers!
 

shiva71

Well-Known Member
Cheers for the input chaps
So i went to do a rez change and discovered my bucket was full with gunk. Might explain a few things! Yuk.
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So i obviously gave tghe bucket a good clean, filled it now at 5.6/400 - except i made a bit of a mess adjusting the pH and with all the up/down ppm is more like 480. Added a splash of cal mag too.
Lets hope she perks up. Thanks guys!
 

amneziaHaze

Well-Known Member
didnt you have a ppm raise with 420 last time? and now you are giving her 480?
too strong of nutes will slower growth and in the end show a burn
allsoo i noticed your OBI bucket is letting light inside. thats whats making the gunk probably. why dont you use some black ducktape and stick it all around the bucket?
 

shiva71

Well-Known Member
didnt you have a ppm raise with 420 last time? and now you are giving her 480?
too strong of nutes will slower growth and in the end show a burn
allsoo i noticed your OBI bucket is letting light inside. thats whats making the gunk probably. why dont you use some black ducktape and stick it all around the bucket?
Cheers, last time I did the bucket yes it was about 420 but then made a bit of a mess adjusting pH, pH up/down will raise ppm so it ended up at 480. A day later no change, pH up from 5.7 to 6.1 so put that back down to 5.6. The damage doesnt seem to be spreading and new growth is ok. Not the healthiest looking plant, she seems a bit pale, hopefully she starts feeding a bit more soon. And yeah will do a bit of work on the bucket try and tidy it up a bit make sure theres no light leeking in...cheers!
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Delps8

Well-Known Member
Yeah its a possibility. If the ppm goes down again ill give her a good feed and see how she responds.
That's a good way to create a lockout and that might be what you're looking at - is that a Ca issue or a K issue?

When plants are given fresh nutrient solution (hydro), these chemicals are taken very quickly, in the first few hours.

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If you top off the nutrient solution with fresh nutes, you might create problems because the plant will take up Mn, N, P, and K from the replenished res even though it already has those chemicals in the plant. That can create an imbalance and, therefore, a lockout.

Rather than top off with full strength nutes, you can do "add backs" of RO water until the amount that you have added back >= the volume of the res OR, per Bugbee, you can add nutrient solution that's been diluted to 25% strength. Bugbee uses Hoagland's solution.

If you're adding back RO and if pH is swinging and if your EC has dropped significantly (50%), if may be that the nutrient levels are so low that they can't buffer pH changes. At that point, swap the res.

I've been trying to get an answer for "how often should I swap my res" because I grow one plant in a res that holds 28 gallons of nutes. It's ludicrous to change it every week when the plant is small so that's why I started asking the question. The "add back until water added = res size" and the Bugbee-add Hoagland approaches seem to be the best options to me.

This copy/paste is of an Excel document that I put together to try to understand how PPM's change as reservoirs are depleted. It's a work in process but it might provide a little background.

What it helped me understand is that even if a res drops from, say, 768/500 PPM (meaning 768 PPM on the 500 PPM scale) to 560/500, there's still a lot of chemicals left for the plants to take up.

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- yes not a bad idea, it was looking slightly frothy today which i didnt like the look of.
- syringe from bottle A then B im pretty careful to do the right order
- 10 gallon bucket
- it was 5.9, went up to 6.4 now down to 5.7. The damage looks like pH issues possibly. Wanna see if shes happier at a lower pH.
Thanks for responses!!
pH will tend to rise as nutes are taken up but, especially in flower, it's completely normal for pH to drop gradually, as well. If you have root rot, pH will drop but there's no reason to get wigged out if pH drops - it's an indicator that something is happening and a grower needs to find out why. I've done five auto grows and, even though they were different strains, pH dropped for a few days after a new res. That's just cations vs anions.

In DWC, a pH of 5.8 is widely considered to be optimal.

"gunk" - that could be nutes precipitating out of solution, which is common, or it could be plant material of some kind. It's worth it to see if it's the former, which is OK, or the latter, not OK.
 
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