Best lights, lighting for a 4x4?

Feisty1UR

Feisty1UR

Well-Known Member
I've heard waaay too many controversial topics on people saying CMH, or Gavita are better than HPS, MH lighting setups. They never come to a final conclusion..

Apparently you can get away with 315w of light from a CMH, and still pull the same numbers from a 600w Air-cooled HPS. According to statistics the CMH has 4x PAR but I don't know if that's a myth or true..

I was going to buy an Air-cooled Hooded 600w MH, and then possibly switch that out for a 1000w HPS during flower,

Can somebody offer me advice on what I should buy for the area I have?

Cheers bongsmilie
 
Feisty1UR

Feisty1UR

Well-Known Member
indawindica said:
You can do well with a 600w in a 4x4. Even better with a 1000w if you can control the temp. I started out with a 4x4 tent with a 600w mh/hps, and had great results.
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I'm trying to find out which would be a better light source for yield, so much debate...

I made so many mistakes in my first grow, I'm trying to correct everything this time around. upgrade everything so it's all at its best possible potential.

How much did you end up with roughly from a 600?, If you could control the heat would you go with a 1000w. In your own opinion.
 
indawindica

indawindica

Well-Known Member
Well that was about 10yrs ago. I don't remember exactly what the yield was. I was growing skunk#1 from sensi seeds and ending up with monster harvests using a 600w. Hydro using the home made waterfarm setup with 5 gal buckets and the net pots. I fit about 5 plants in the tent.
 
HydroRed

HydroRed

Well-Known Member
Temps in a 4x4 with a 1000w hps are doable, but do you really want to spend that much $$$ on the extra power consumption between the extra air conditioning ,extra exhaust,extra power used on a big 1000W vs a 600w ballast? In the end for running a 1000W vs a 600W is likely double by the time you factor in all of the other variables.....and for likely close to the same yield. Save yourself the headache of trying to cool the small space & the extra kwh you will be using and go with a 600W HID or better yet 315 CMH. A 1000W technically will cover a 5.5x5.5 space, so in a 4x4 you would be wasting a lot of that extra energy on walls since you cant utilize the lights full potential in a limited space anyways. Just my .02 though.
 
Feisty1UR

Feisty1UR

Well-Known Member
HydroRed said:
Temps in a 4x4 with a 1000w hps are doable, but do you really want to spend that much $$$ on the extra power consumption between the extra air conditioning ,extra exhaust,extra power used on a big 1000W vs a 600w ballast? In the end for running a 1000W vs a 600W is likely double by the time you factor in all of the other variables.....and for likely close to the same yield. Save yourself the headache of trying to cool the small space & the extra kwh you will be using and go with a 600W HID or better yet 315 CMH. A 1000W technically will cover a 5.5x5.5 space, so in a 4x4 you would be wasting a lot of that extra energy on walls since you cant utilize the lights full potential in a limited space anyways. Just my .02 though.
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I checked out the 315w CMH, why are the prices sooo sky high? You can't air-cool them either from what I've found.

I've found some digital ballasts where you can control the settings and switch them from either 250w - 400w - 600w and the boosted 660w. But I read up on a thread I randomly found and someone complained about these digital ballasts, about how they interfere with radio-waves and they were caught using them, and had someone come around their house to check it out. They apparently make you look suspicious to authorities. I don't know if thats true?

Off topic, coco-coir acts the same way as a hydro-run, right?

bongsmilie:peace:
 
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HydroRed

HydroRed

Well-Known Member
If price is a factor more than power savings & efficiency- then 600w magnetic ballast is your best bet. As for ballasts giving off radio interference, yes this can be true. If you use a magnetic ballast you dont have to worry about this. What happens is that the digital ballast(s) create disruption on RF and can mess up peoples cable tv, which in turn makes them call the cable guy-who in turn traces down where the interference comes from. Then you get the cable guy knocking on your door wondering what the interference is coming from your spot. Plus magnetics cost less on initial upfront cost vs digital ballasts. I use magnetic switchable ballasts which can be switched between MH and HPS by the flip of a switch, and the change of a bulb. As for coco, I dont run it but have read that it should be treated as hydro medium. I'm sure the coco crew will chime in if I'm wrong.
 
DropWalk

DropWalk

Active Member
What are your end goals? 1000 is always going to have the potential to produce more but you do need to factor in the heat in a small area. I went with a 1000 because I didnt want to have to buy a bigger ballest and light if I wanted more.
 
Feisty1UR

Feisty1UR

Well-Known Member
DropWalk said:
What are your end goals? 1000 is always going to have the potential to produce more but you do need to factor in the heat in a small area. I went with a 1000 because I didnt want to have to buy a bigger ballest and light if I wanted more.
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End goal is to have a nice harvest. Aiming for 2 - 2.5lbs. I will be taking the best producing plant from this next run a choosing a mother to take clones from for the next run and utilise the SOG method. 36 plants, upto an oz per plant. I don't know if that's possible, just what I've read and been told.

How do you manage to keep your temps in check ?
 
HydroRed

HydroRed

Well-Known Member
Its really not even about how many plants you got, but rather how well you fill your canopy (4x4 area). Your plants will need to be really small, which in turn means that you would be growing "single colas" on each plant and keeping veg times short. To be honest, 2-2.5 lbs in a 4x4 area with 1 600 or even 1000 is a bit ambitious. Set realistic goals and work up from there. No need to set yourself up for disappointment.
 
Gquebed

Gquebed

Well-Known Member
In a 4x4 with 1000w you will do well to get 1.5 lbs. 2lbs is doable, but only with experience.

The trouble is cooling a 1000w in a 4x4. If youre in a cool climate it is fairly easy. In a hot climate... tricky...

Get a dimmable 1000w ballast if youre going hid...that way you have options....
 
Feisty1UR

Feisty1UR

Well-Known Member
HydroRed said:
Its really not even about how many plants you got, but rather how well you fill your canopy (4x4 area). Your plants will need to be really small, which in turn means that you would be growing "single colas" on each plant and keeping veg times short. To be honest, 2-2.5 lbs in a 4x4 area with 1 600 or even 1000 is a bit ambitious. Set realistic goals and work up from there. No need to set yourself up for disappointment.
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But it takes longer to fill a canopy, I'd rather have a nice harvest asap - with minimal effort.

I'm going by what I've been told, apparently you should be aiming for 1.5lbs in a 3x3 3lbs in a 4x4 and 5 in a 5x5
 
HydroRed

HydroRed

Well-Known Member
How does it take longer to fill a canopy? I think you may have misunderstood my last post. If you have 36 plants like you stated in a 4x4 area,you can basically flip from the minute you put the clones out under the light. No veg time, straight into flower- canopy filled. You fill the canopy with the amount of plants -not the size of the plants. If someone told you you should expect 5 lbs in a 5x5 with 1 light....someone is talking major bullshit and you should find another credible source for realistic info.
 
Feisty1UR

Feisty1UR

Well-Known Member
HydroRed said:
How does it take longer to fill a canopy? I think you may have misunderstood my last post. If you have 36 plants like you stated in a 4x4 area,you can basically flip from the minute you put the clones out under the light. No veg time, straight into flower- canopy filled. You fill the canopy with the amount of plants -not the size of the plants. If someone told you you should expect 5 lbs in a 5x5 with 1 light....someone is talking major bullshit and you should find another credible source for realistic info.
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I thought a canopy was basically using a Scrog screen and weaving the plant through the screen to have a flat surface of bud sites so that direct light can get to them

So a canopy is the amount of plants in one area?
 
TheChemist77

TheChemist77

Well-Known Member
a 315 watt cmh is equivalent to around 450 watts hps.. 1 315 will cover a 4'x4' are pretty well and get 400-450 grams dry weight, 2 315's easiliy cover my 4'x6' table and yield 800-900 grams, 3 315' or 945 watts cmh over that same table yield 1300 grams,,better than 2 600 watt hps's... my gram per watt has gone up with each run under cmh..i grew with hps/mh for 20 plus years, but i am very happy that i tried and now switched to cmh..one other nice thing is bulb changes every 3 years rather than every 6-8 months...
 
HydroRed

HydroRed

Well-Known Member
Feisty1UR said:
I thought a canopy was basically using a Scrog screen and weaving the plant through the screen to have a flat surface of bud sites so that direct light can get to them

So a canopy is the amount of plants in one area?
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You are correct with the first part of your reply. The amount of plants like I mentioned is a way to utilize the space and fill your canopy without all the work of training to make the plants fit your canopy to recieve equal light among the tops of all of the plants.
A flat canopy is achieved by training different plants to be equal in height by different means like lst/hst/topping/scrogging etc. If you have small plants, but many of them then there is no need to "fill your canopy" since all the plants will be recieving equal amounts of light top and bottom and the area to be filled is full and maxed out to a point where one plant isnt getting more light than another. If you run many small plants vs 4 larger plants that need to be topped/scrogged etc and vegged for a long period of time then you are utilizing your canopy faster with less time and work involved. In a 4x4 canopy you will need to work to fill it to its capacity to provide the best yield vs just putting many small plants under the same light in the same area. I hope this makes sense.
 
Feisty1UR

Feisty1UR

Well-Known Member
TheChemist77 said:
a 315 watt cmh is equivalent to around 450 watts hps.. 1 315 will cover a 4'x4' are pretty well and get 400-450 grams dry weight, 2 315's easiliy cover my 4'x6' table and yield 800-900 grams, 3 315' or 945 watts cmh over that same table yield 1300 grams,,better than 2 600 watt hps's... my gram per watt has gone up with each run under cmh..i grew with hps/mh for 20 plus years, but i am very happy that i tried and now switched to cmh..one other nice thing is bulb changes every 3 years rather than every 6-8 months...
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Can you link me to a place where I can buy these CMH units? Everywhere I've seen they're going for around $400 each lol

Unless that's correct??

I'd be very very happy with 600-700 grams from a 4x4 if possible. What lighting setup would I need to achieve that? Would 2 CMH work well?
 
Feisty1UR

Feisty1UR

Well-Known Member
HydroRed said:
You are correct with the first part of your reply. The amount of plants like I mentioned is a way to utilize the space and fill your canopy without all the work of training to make the plants fit your canopy to recieve equal light among the tops of all of the plants.
A flat canopy is achieved by training different plants to be equal in height by different means like lst/hst/topping/scrogging etc. If you have small plants, but many of them then there is no need to "fill your canopy" since all the plants will be recieving equal amounts of light top and bottom and the area to be filled is full and maxed out to a point where one plant isnt getting more light than another. If you run many small plants vs 4 larger plants that need to be topped/scrogged etc and vegged for a long period of time then you are utilizing your canopy faster with less time and work involved. In a 4x4 canopy you will need to work to fill it to its capacity to provide the best yield vs just putting many small plants under the same light in the same area. I hope this makes sense.
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Ahh I see, so many small plants won't yield the same as a uniformed 2-3 month veg 4 plant Scrog in a 4x4. Or am I completely missing the point :s

Surely a 9 or 16 plant Scrog would work better? Less overall veg time.

Still undecided on what I should work with
 
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DropWalk

DropWalk

Active Member
Feisty1UR said:
But it takes longer to fill a canopy, I'd rather have a nice harvest asap - with minimal effort.

I'm going by what I've been told, apparently you should be aiming for 1.5lbs in a 3x3 3lbs in a 4x4 and 5 in a 5x5
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5 lbs in a 5x5 space :clap:


Starting out in SOG you will net about 10-15g a plant till you understand the strain. Shoot for a gram a watt and go from there.
 
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