Bernie Sanders is the most popular politician in the US

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
I think kicking corporations out of politics IS about jobs.
Sure, absolutely it is. When a person hears of a thousand jobs moving away what they want to know is when will things get better. The larger picture that somebody with a secure income can sit back and contemplate is less tangible when you are worried about your own job. This is why I'd like to see Democratic party elected officials put a real emphasis on what's important to the 90%, one main issue is erosion in jobs, wages and financial security.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Just jobs?

What if an investment advisor told you that he could get you $119 back for every $1 you gave him? That’s a 11,900% rate of return.
These measures leave out at least two major ways that the industry wields its influence: advertising and unregulated SuperPac spending.
http://priceofoil.org/fossil-fuel-industry-influence-in-the-u-s/

Commuter trains, free flowing traffic, Alt Energy, Education and Health are all enemies of the State, err, I mean Industry.
What do you think would happen if the FDA & the Ins.Industry suddenly seen a doubling of Cancer rates? Double the treatment/education/jobs/research? or just abandon the American worker.
When do the laws of Commerce trump the Constitution? ....and has anybody spent time for killing a Corporation?
Our representatives have been attacking the American worker for decades now.

Lawyers kill corporations all the time.

I didn't say stop there, I just pointed out that ending campaign finance and outlawing superPAC money would be a good start that would realign the interests of our elected representatives with the needs of those they purport to represent.
 
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Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
here's where you claim it was super ultra mega rigged because donna brazile talked about possible debate topics
"sending those emails was a mistake I will forever regret" -Donna Brazile

So why would she regret it if she didn't do anything wrong? Because she got caught and it tanked the candidate she was trying to help win.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Some of what you say is true. Could you put some names onto "Democratic establishment that don't touch main issues"?
Any Democratic congressman who has ever voted against raising the minimum wage, reducing welfare programs, education, science or medical research, aka. actual progressive policies

A lot of times what will happen is they'll support these things under Republican administrations or when Republicans hold control of congress because they know there's no chance of actually getting them passed, so they can pay lip service to their constituents and say "See, look, I voted to raise the minimum wage! Aren't I progressive?!" while actually still maintaining the corporate policy their donors want. Same thing that just happened with Booker and his opposition to lowering pharmaceutical drug costs.

How many Democratic congressmen can you name that have been consistent throughout their career on progressive issues like the ones I mentioned earlier whether they're in control of the government or not? Not very many, which is consistent with the approval rating of congress
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
you mean that non-binding resolution he opposed while still voting in favor of actual measures that would allow us to negotiate pharmaceutical prices?
He opposed Sanders resolution citing inadequate safety standards from imported drugs from Canada. Then he received enormous backlash from the progressive base. Then he asked Sanders to draft a new resolution with him that essentially had the same safety standards as the previous one.



"Bennet, Booker, Casey, Manchin, and Murray are among the biggest recipients of pharmaceutical industry money in the Senate"

You honestly don't think the money they received from the pharmaceutical industry had anything to do with their vote on this resolution? Does corporate money only influence your votes if you're a Republican? You can look at someone like James Inhofe, see exactly how much money he receives from the oil & gas industry, and see exactly how his votes in the senate reflect that. You can do the same thing with every industry. Half of the top ten recipients are Democrats and like you said they all voted against a resolution that was non binding.

Do you believe Booker's response about why he was opposed to it?
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Any Democratic congressman who has ever voted against raising the minimum wage, reducing welfare programs, education, science or medical research, aka. actual progressive policies

A lot of times what will happen is they'll support these things under Republican administrations or when Republicans hold control of congress because they know there's no chance of actually getting them passed, so they can pay lip service to their constituents and say "See, look, I voted to raise the minimum wage! Aren't I progressive?!" while actually still maintaining the corporate policy their donors want. Same thing that just happened with Booker and his opposition to lowering pharmaceutical drug costs.

How many Democratic congressmen can you name that have been consistent throughout their career on progressive issues like the ones I mentioned earlier whether they're in control of the government or not? Not very many, which is consistent with the approval rating of congress
I'll put up two names and let you knock them down if you like.

Ron Wyden, Peter Defazio. Congressmen from Oregon who have a lot of policies that I like.

But I'm not an absolutist. They just have to be mostly good. Like me.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
i believe in the senate record, which shows he opposed a non-binding resolution, but voted in favor of an alternate amendment aimed at lowering drug prices.
There you go again, producing facts that disagree with Paddy's certainty.

That said, Booker does have a cozy relationship with Wall Street. I don't see him as at the same level as Ryan but he's more to the right -- centrist maybe -- than the left could find acceptable.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
There you go again, producing facts that disagree with Paddy's certainty.

That said, Booker does have a cozy relationship with Wall Street. I don't see him as at the same level as Ryan but he's more to the right -- centrist maybe -- than the left could find acceptable.
Think about what you just said.

'right-centrist' is considered mainstream Democrat?

Can you name a liberal Democrat? I can't.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
There you go again, producing facts that disagree with Paddy's certainty.

That said, Booker does have a cozy relationship with Wall Street. I don't see him as at the same level as Ryan but he's more to the right -- centrist maybe -- than the left could find acceptable.
that is the narrative on him, which i have never really examined. a little too cozy with "wall street", however you want to define that.

but the "he voted for big pharma" narrative is completely false. it was a non-binding resolution. there was a later amendment which was voted on by every single democrat (minus one, maybe) which failed on straight arty lines.

the russian disinformation campaign aimed at splitting the left did not magically stop on november 9th, it has continued. we must be diligent in debunking the bullshit.
 

visajoe1

Well-Known Member
Sure, absolutely it is. When a person hears of a thousand jobs moving away what they want to know is when will things get better. The larger picture that somebody with a secure income can sit back and contemplate is less tangible when you are worried about your own job. This is why I'd like to see Democratic party elected officials put a real emphasis on what's important to the 90%, one main issue is erosion in jobs, wages and financial security.
Doesnt the left champion union jobs? Hence their support from nearly all of them. Unfortunately, union jobs has been declining last several decades. Maybe Dem's could support small business a little better?

https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/FAQ_Sept_2012.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_unions_in_the_United_States
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Doesnt the left champion union jobs? Hence their support from nearly all of them. Unfortunately, union jobs has been declining last several decades. Maybe Dem's could support small business a little better?

https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/FAQ_Sept_2012.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_unions_in_the_United_States
Actually, Democrats haven't been great friends of unions for a very long time. In part because union members haven't been voting for Democrats. In the modern era, this began with Nixon. But also the Democratic party has taken union support for granted and not done enough to sustain and protect unions.

And then there is this odd attitude people who aren't in unions have about them. They hate them and vote against their own interest when they support anti-union elected officials. I have no understanding of this.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
i believe in the senate record, which shows he opposed a non-binding resolution, but voted in favor of an alternate amendment aimed at lowering drug prices.
Right, so you believe pharmaceutical drugs imported from Canada are dangerous, then, just like Booker did, which is why he voted against Sanders resolution

So can you tell me why you believe drugs imported from Canada are so dangerous?
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Think about what you just said.

'right-centrist' is considered mainstream Democrat?

Can you name a liberal Democrat? I can't.
What I said was "he's more to the right -- centrist maybe: I meant he's moderately right of center or center. This language stuff is beyond me.

I don't know the members of Congress and am not motivated to study other people's representatives. Personally, I think Booker is moderately to right of center like Hillary was. Not Paul Ryan or Trump, who are hard right. But I'm willing to concede that Booker could be centrist. He hasn't entirely lost his mind.

Not sure what "liberal" means to you. I can name progressive democrats. Peter DeFazio and Ron Wyden are progressive congressional delegates from Oregon.

Maybe California's governor, Brown fits a liberal tag?
 
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Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
What I said was "he's more to the right -- centrist maybe: I meant he's moderately right of center or center. This language stuff is beyond me.

I don't know the members of Congress and am not motivated to study other people's representatives. Personally, I think Booker is moderately to right of center like Hillary was. Not Paul Ryan or Trump, who are hard right. But I'm willing to concede that Booker could be centrist. He hasn't entirely lost his mind.
I followed him when he was vying for the Senate seat in NJ, when he was still mayor of Newark. The dude had one of the most progressive messages I'd heard of, that's why he appeared on my radar at the time. No doubt why he climbed the political ladder so quickly. He's positioning himself for a 2020 run for president. He knows he has to toe the line between corporatist and progressive, that's why he ended up recruiting Sanders, the most popular politician in the country, especially among progressives, to draft an alternative resolution with the exact same safety standards he'd initially voted against. I'm sure he thinks if he get's Sanders on board, his progressive base will follow and they'll drop the opposition to his initial vote against it, just like, as you can see, Buck has been pushing.. (But he supports lower drug prices, too, see!")..
 
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