~*Another_Led_Thread*~

Treeth

Well-Known Member
It's too bad that the "perfect led light" thread that was over on cannabis.com is non existent anymore, as it was full of great information, and highly knowledgeable posters as well.

My heart goes out to SnS, Opie, others, and most of all the physicsnole, for collecting the information over on that thread which cultivated most of what I know now about this experimental led horticultural lighting frontier. And never you forget the pessimism of Al.B!

I think its now safe to say that the cheap ebay/alibaba 50 or 100 watt panels from shenzen are not what the posters here are looking for. We need high power leds, not the shitty 5 millimeter leds that are really just fine at putting out the color; however we here are looking for the lumens to drive fruit production.

There are led manufacturers making such leds, and at somewhat competitive prices per lumen. I am thinking of cree and phillips lumiled. My personal favorite design is the phillips rebel. I love these little guys. According to the products' white sheet http://www.philipslumileds.com/pdfs/DS56.pdf, and if my circuit math is correct, I'm putting out something like 27 lumens per watt with red rebels. I've found that around 80 watts of rebel reds a square foot is very doable, and worthy of flowering our favorite plant, which is perhaps endlessly hungry for more lumens.

Dees are primarily cost effective in small setups.

Small set ups are often very unprofessional and are often mismanaged, underfunded and/or poorly designed.

However, in something like Cruzer's cabinet, leds can shine.

Producing your own panels to do what I am talking about is difficult. It is much easier to invest in a 600w hid with the ventilation you need to do the job right anyways.

I do personally think that HIDs can be outdone by dees, however not solely. Dees of course must be supplemented by other sources of various other radiometric spectrums, namely from uvb cfls and far red heat lamps. But flowering driven by the power of dees is most definitely possible.

Most of the flower power of mercury vapor can be attributed to the special time after you turn the lamp off, as it slowly cools and continues to churn out the far red much like the setting sun and the warm earth at night. This is what causes the swelling buds.

It's something to do with the phytochromes... The fact that it does this, the far red, the 660nm reds and below, make them a geat value combination lamp. Led's allow the grower to be selective in his application of spectrums. For efficacious growers, it is a boon to the level of control, and amount of experiments that can be run. If you have you're set up dialed in, I'm primarily concerned about you right now, you having a good sense of conrtol over the variables which are encountered over those very special three months.

Anyways, I have been trying to get panels going for over a year now, investing much time and energy and all of my funds.

I would like now very much to build panels for this community, for growers ready to experiment. To take advantage of ways to put more power down, more creatively, for more hours, and more efficiency, in order to grow outstanding plants.

So I want testers.

My shit is much more purpose built than anything I've come across on the current market.

I'm primarily interested in flower panels only at first, as it is much more interesting because in separating the red out from the other spectrums, you can concentrate on it, cause' its the light the plants really care for. After all, you don't smoke the leaf!

My attitude right now is that veg is done most cheaply, and effectively, with cfls. It's the same during flower, except you don't use em' to flower with, and you're really not going for all that much veg... again you don't smoke the leaf.

Is anyone interested? You aint gettin shit for free... but you will be getting something that works and is more cost effective than anything i've yet to see using true high power leds.

More information to come with interest.

Thanks,
Peace,
and
Treeth.
 

repvip

Well-Known Member
It's too bad that the "perfect led light" thread that was over on cannabis.com is non existent anymore, as it was full of great information, and highly knowledgeable posters as well.

My heart goes out to SnS, Opie, others, and most of all the physicsnole, for collecting the information over on that thread which cultivated most of what I know now about this experimental led horticultural lighting frontier. And never you forget the pessimism of Al.B!

I think its now safe to say that the cheap ebay/alibaba 50 or 100 watt panels from shenzen are not what the posters here are looking for. We need high power leds, not the shitty 5 millimeter leds that are really just fine at putting out the color; however we here are looking for the lumens to drive fruit production.

There are led manufacturers making such leds, and at somewhat competitive prices per lumen. I am thinking of cree and phillips lumiled. My personal favorite design is the phillips rebel. I love these little guys. According to the products' white sheet http://www.philipslumileds.com/pdfs/DS56.pdf, and if my circuit math is correct, I'm putting out something like 27 lumens per watt with red rebels. I've found that around 80 watts of rebel reds a square foot is very doable, and worthy of flowering our favorite plant, which is perhaps endlessly hungry for more lumens.

Dees are primarily cost effective in small setups.

Small set ups are often very unprofessional and are often mismanaged, underfunded and/or poorly designed.

However, in something like Cruzer's cabinet, leds can shine.

Producing your own panels to do what I am talking about is difficult. It is much easier to invest in a 600w hid with the ventilation you need to do the job right anyways.

I do personally think that HIDs can be outdone by dees, however not solely. Dees of course must be supplemented by other sources of various other radiometric spectrums, namely from uvb cfls and far red heat lamps. But flowering driven by the power of dees is most definitely possible.

Most of the flower power of mercury vapor can be attributed to the special time after you turn the lamp off, as it slowly cools and continues to churn out the far red much like the setting sun and the warm earth at night. This is what causes the swelling buds.

It's something to do with the phytochromes... The fact that it does this, the far red, the 660nm reds and below, make them a geat value combination lamp. Led's allow the grower to be selective in his application of spectrums. For efficacious growers, it is a boon to the level of control, and amount of experiments that can be run. If you have you're set up dialed in, I'm primarily concerned about you right now, you having a good sense of conrtol over the variables which are encountered over those very special three months.

Anyways, I have been trying to get panels going for over a year now, investing much time and energy and all of my funds.

I would like now very much to build panels for this community, for growers ready to experiment. To take advantage of ways to put more power down, more creatively, for more hours, and more efficiency, in order to grow outstanding plants.

So I want testers.

My shit is much more purpose built than anything I've come across on the current market.

I'm primarily interested in flower panels only at first, as it is much more interesting because in separating the red out from the other spectrums, you can concentrate on it, cause' its the light the plants really care for. After all, you don't smoke the leaf!

My attitude right now is that veg is done most cheaply, and effectively, with cfls. It's the same during flower, except you don't use em' to flower with, and you're really not going for all that much veg... again you don't smoke the leaf.

Is anyone interested? You aint gettin shit for free... but you will be getting something that works and is more cost effective than anything i've yet to see using true high power leds.

More information to come with interest.

Thanks,
Peace,
and
Treeth.

Hahahah. You are totally bashing my LED comments on another thread, and now you are offering this? That's funny. You came off a little too cocky for me, but good luck.
 
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Reactions: 206

Treeth

Well-Known Member
You came off as ignorant to me. Thats willful.

I performed uncountable hours of work, and not for your benefit.

You are looking for ease. I'm offering it.

- 5 mm led panels from china are not what individuals on this board are looking for, sorry. -
 

Ding

Active Member
I've been reading up a lot on LEDs lately...Shoot me some more info Treeth...I would love to try something new and innovative.
 

repvip

Well-Known Member
You came off as ignorant to me. Thats willful.

I performed uncountable hours of work, and not for your benefit.

You are looking for ease. I'm offering it.

- 5 mm led panels from china are not what individuals on this board are looking for, sorry. -
I'm here to share information, not try and sell shit.

No wonder you didn't have anything useful to say when I asked about LED building tips. It's not that you don't know--you just want to keep information to youself to possibly make money.

People like you.... don't really belong on forums like this.. advertising your homemade lights isn't what this site is about. Sharing information, on the other hand, is exactly what this site is about.
 

Treeth

Well-Known Member
I do agree with you repvip about this community and the purpose of these boards, however.

But you're not looking for simple tips,

An more critically I don't think you're willing to do the research yourself.

Furthermore, I really doubt that I could ever change what you think you know.

as You seem pretty resolute, and accomplished.

You're just not the kind of person I would want to share with. :cry:

I simply want to advance what I'm doing as it is certainly not a static project,
but it is a costly project,
and what I've done so far can be of use to certain types of growers here. *Growers who are satisfied with their production using other systems, and are open to experimentation, with properly powerful led fixtures.*

You're pics that you're so proud of... wheres the finished bud?
i dunno... I just really doubt that is your room, If it is, its impressive, and with all that cash it must have took to build,
one would assume you've had more practice with HPS.

Anyways,

Lets leave this disagreement. Keep our thought about the led lighting frontier separate.

Peace
&
Treeth
 

repvip

Well-Known Member
There's no finished bud--if you looked a little closer and read the comments you would realize I am not finishing under the LED. I attached a pic of 27days flowering under the LED. I'm impressed. The LED was a good 18+" above the canopy. It's a great start for finishing under HPS.

So lets say I am interested in trying out your light. Can you tell us about it? Maybe provide a picture?

Why do you keep calling the LEDs in my light 5mm? Like I said before, this LED is a 350w tri-band made from a combination of 1w and 3w LEDs. So yes, I am a little proud. I searched quite a bit online for any LED proof and could not find any pictures or grows using anything larger than the 120w HTGsupply LED. So.. what I am trying to say is.. the pictures I have posted are the only ones on the internet showing an LED panel this powerful being used for growing pot, with preliminary results updated all the time. Proof me wrong I would love to see another proper LED grow.

I am assuming you can build an LED array that is better than the one I am using now?
 

Attachments

Treeth

Well-Known Member
Actually, you're right. If that is indeed a 350 watt light,

than that is the most powerful led fixture I have ever seen growing plants.

I think you should get that sucker close, an inch, an actually flower fully what you can under it. Now that would be interesting.

and yes, I do build more powerful lights.
 

FCSoldier

Well-Known Member
you know you could test it yourself first...you know pics of the grow, the light setup etc...seriously thats like saying I can build a better HID for someone than a company that sells them without anything to back it up...

"Anyways, I have been trying to get panels going for over a year now, investing much time and energy and all of my funds."

A whole year(not much time compared to the manufacturers of the LED lights made for growing...which they have versions you can adjust the light spectrum to use optimal colors for veg or flower). Looks like your a little behind...

How has one of your grows went with any of your prototypes(I would hope you've tried something)

Sounds like your trying to get people to invest in your product...if you have spent all your money without any results to show for it, then what would you do with this money you expect from your so called testers.

Anyway, just sounded like a big scam...
 

repvip

Well-Known Member
Easy... Treeth can build you an LED fixture more powerful, or as powerful as, the most impressive units on the market, for much less $$$ Should give more penetration as well.

It's sort of a no brainer.

This gives folks the opportunity to try an LED light in their price range, that is worthwhile, to prove they work. Too many folks are using the low wattage panels off ebay that guarantee regret. Not enough folks are using the high power LEDs that actually work, mostly because of price.

Treeth: I can't get the fixture any closer than 12-15" without losing coverage of 2 flower units. I could get it 1" over 1 unit, and I really want to, but that leaves the other one empty. I suppose I could place the UFO over the other unit, both on the light mover... shit man that aquarium DIY LED fixture would fit perfect over 2 units! I am very tempted to build one...
 

Treeth

Well-Known Member
Believe me I wish I had pics.

I did one complete flower before this,

using a panel fully 1/2 as powerful as this one,

about 40 watts a foot.

They were three tortured ladies, so much root rot...

I learned that rockwool cubes are very slow for rooting,

when they are soaked with nutes and cold.

But I managed to eventually stabilize, and not flush properly,

and fail to wait for a proper drying period,

so first time grow kind of stuff.

So I know that they work... considering how ridiculous this unit is.

the cultivo led grow on youtube is similar,

uses the same power leds, and looks fine,

I got that kind of power on the foot,

ummm, so there you go,

not everything comes at once.

Should I have waited these coming months to show?

I'm more proud of these than my grow.



- Please don't fix your working HID set ups, it is not worth it.

Optimally, this kind of thing is best for closet grows, to replace cfls and ufos.

Not legitimate HPS setups. In the future, maybe, after I've proven it, lol, but agian, perhaps in months.

Thanks repvip,
I think that was sincere. That is exactly what I have done.

there is no reason for dees to be further than a couple inches,

especially during flowering, and especially not to stretch.

light deteriorates at a factor of distance squared, I do not remember the name of the law. I'm sure we would all like to be EE's in that other reality.
 

Treeth

Well-Known Member
Luxeon stars, and the luxeon I's used in that aquarium,

and on the purple haze light on youtube,

are very easy to work with.
 

cruzer101

Well-Known Member
Hey Treeth,

I have done my research on LED's and I am with you.
Unfortunately I along with everyone else am not ready to drop $1500 or $2000 for a light that will do it.

But you have to remember they are growing in a much larger space. I think that is the key. Its quite possible an array of 3 and 5 watt placed a few inches away on a scrog with mirror sides (not Mylar no hot spots in LED) would produce.

From what I have seen as it is even the 3 and 5 watt have trouble reaching the lower buds. I have read about the 27 watt and I hear they are working on a 50 watt but thought it was only available in white. After all, the real market out there is to replace convention lighting.

 

repvip

Well-Known Member
What's the opinion on using WARM WHITE LED's in part of an array for growing?

http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=TaOZSEYtRiVvKiwRG4nxrA==
LEDengine RED is probably what I will use for part of my build, 661nm deep red. I don't understand the converson from lm to mw though, so their data sheet is a bit confusing for me.

http://ledsupply.com/07007-pd01-30-3.php
The REBELs, 3-up reds 627nm also look nice and will be used.

http://ledsupply.com/endorstar.php
Will also probably use endor stars for the blue 470nm.
Cree X-RE stars 450nm too

Maybe 70% red (mostly 627nm and some 661nm), 15-20% blue (470nm and 450nm) and 10-15% ? Warm white or Orange is the question...

http://www.powergatellc.com/pdfs/PLN-60.pdf
Seems like a good driver/power source

Anyway.. I'm off to a good start. I still need to read up on optics and viewing angles to see how that affects uniformity/distribution of light.

http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?N=2093270+4294401650+4294629248+4294627894
I do find it interesting that LEDENGIN's 10w and 15w deep red LEDs are about the same price. Is it a no-brainer to go with the 15w?
 
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