Advice from the best sorely needed

Hi Guys,

First post so please bare with me.

I have been using this forum for a while, trying to gather some info for my first grow.

Heres where im at but i really need your help to fill in the gaps in my knowledge.

Today, i have just germinated my first ever seed ( Barneys Farm Feminised Cheese).

I have a 400w HPS bulb, a 1mX1mX1.6m grow room with extractor fan and carbon filter ready to go and im using BioBizz All Mix ( i know this maybe a lot for a first grow but i like to be prepared, plus a live in a flat so need as much privacy as possible)

My Game plan is as follows and PLEASE correct me if im wrong.

1) When i get my first set of 5 pointed leaves i should put the plant under the light in the grow room? currently its still in a dark room under the stairs.

2) Veg Cycle...I should for approx 6-8 weeks leave the plant under the light on a 24hr cycle. Is this correct? Or there any signs to show when the plant is ready to switch to flowering?

3) Flowering...I then swith to a 12hr cycle..for 4+weeks switching the HPS for MH? How do i know when its ready to crop?

4) Watering and Neutrients.. I have read best not to overwater or overfeed. So my plan is every few days, when the top of the soil starts to crack..provide the water. Also i was going to spray the underside of the leafs twice a day on a 24hr cycle and once a day in flowering cycle. I think the soil im using is quite too, so do you have advice on if i need to add extract neutrients to this, if so, what do you recommend for UK use?

5) Cropping...This confuses me. I have no idea what to look for on the plant to show the optimal time to crop. Everything i have read has confused me as it seems there is a small window for this?

If any of you can provide some advice, tips, solutions etc to make sure im on the right path it would be greatly recieved.

Many thanks guys

#1) yes but it still needs light while growing to that 5 leaf stage

#2) you can veg for as long as you want .. if from seed depending on strain of plant wont be mature enough to flower untill 3-6 weeks old... the longer you veg the bigger your plants. i usually go for the first week or 2 under 24hr light bu i use two 2foot florecents for that then i go to my 400HPS for the remainder of veg peroid but i but my light at a 18h on and 6h off for veg peroids.. some starins will show early sign of sexing some wont so since you are going to be growing indoor you make the choice when you feel they are ready for flowering flower them... i usually wait untill there is sign of sexing in the VEG stage then switch my lights to 12/12

#3) yes flowering is 12/12 cycle... it can take longer than 4 weeks for flowering to be completed.. you wanna use the HPS for flowering stage and if you have MH use it for VEGGING... best way to tell when your crop is ready is to get a 60-100x magnifier from your local hemp store and when the trics are 50% or more milky id say its harvest time

#4) yes it is always best not to over feed or over water... water when soil is dry and plants are light in weight... it is a good idea to spray the plants during veg, if you do it in flowering keep a cloer eye on your humidity if it gets to high you might be attacked my powdery mildew ... for soil i use SUNSHINE MIX #4 and my nutes are 100% organic and its called iguana juice has a veg and flower formula

#5) i would go to your local hemp or smoke shop and get a 60-100x magnifier and look at the trics (the cyrstals on the buds) when try are about 50% milky some amber tops you are good to harvest i would say.. after trimmed hang upside down in a dark place with goof ventillation untill stem snaps then start cureing to bring the taste and quality in the buds out

HAPPY GROWING MAN hope this helps you a little bit

Andi said:

1) When i get my first set of 5 pointed leaves i should put the plant under the light in the grow room? currently its still in a dark room under the stairs.

2) Veg Cycle...I should for approx 6-8 weeks leave the plant under the light on a 24hr cycle. Is this correct? Or there any signs to show when the plant is ready to switch to flowering?

3) Flowering...I then swith to a 12hr cycle..for 4+weeks switching the HPS for MH? How do i know when its ready to crop?

4) Watering and Neutrients.. I have read best not to overwater or overfeed. So my plan is every few days, when the top of the soil starts to crack..provide the water. Also i was going to spray the underside of the leafs twice a day on a 24hr cycle and once a day in flowering cycle. I think the soil im using is quite too, so do you have advice on if i need to add extract neutrients to this, if so, what do you recommend for UK use?

5) Cropping...This confuses me. I have no idea what to look for on the plant to show the optimal time to crop. Everything i have read has confused me as it seems there is a small window for this?

Click to expand...

1) if your plant has leaves, it needs light... keeping it in the dark will cause it to stretch. a plant stretches because it doesnt know its in a closet under the stairs, it thinks it is under the canopy of wild grass/vegetation, so it tries to 'punch through' that wild canopy with a rapid growth spurt. this will cause you major major problems in the long run if you dont correct it rapidly.

2) I have learned that a veg cycle is really not required for indoor plants, unless your trying to grow a huge, larger than 5' tall, heavy yielding plant (and thats not for a first time grow) growing trees like that (as they are called in the mj slang) is difficult due to the fact cannabis requires a large extensive rootsystem to support a lplant of that size, and since its pretty hard to create the depth and space of soil, you have to use nutes. and using nutes at higher dosages like a tree will require, is not something you just learn by reading directions on the bottle.
vegging is nice, but its not required. alot of people do amazing things with no veg cycle. do an advanced search for Al B Fuct's pound every 3 weeks thread, and give it a good read, and you will see how vegging is not required nor desirable in many indoor growing situations.
as far as the length of your veg cycle, its up to you. the longer you veg, the bigger the plant will get... but sometimes bigger is not better, nor easier. one thing i recommend to all begginers in any subject, is to KISS (keep it simple, stupid!)

3) the MH/HPS debate.... its really a matter of preference. HPS will give you heavier, denser buds... but MH will give you more potent buds. often a grower will switch from HPS to MH in the latter stage of flowering because a good grower knows that MH produces more UVB light, which causes the plant to produce more (and heavier) resin glands. personally, i do all my flowering under CMH or MH. like i said, its a matter of choice, either or will work just fine.

4) you can never go wrong by adding a little Cal/Mag and biobuzz..... and stay the fuck away from time release soils unless you want to learn things the hard way. im not knocking time release soil, its just very easy for a beginner to fuck it up with just one over watering. your plant will tell you when it needs water... watering on a regular schedule produces weak plants, in my opinion. i prefer my plants to be hearty beasts, that can take anything i throw at them with a laugh. in order to get to that stage, you have to let your plants 'harden up' this is achieved by making them work hard and wait for there water. (working hard= keep those roots growing. by watering on a sched, sometimes the roots get 'lazy' and stop growing, because you feed them so much they dont have to do shit. think of a fat chick at a buffet.... wait= water when they start to droop, unless your working with clones. clones are an entirely different story, with different requirements.) also watering on a schedule can cause soil compaction... which is something you dont want to deal with.. trust me, it will break your heart to watch a 4 week flowering plant lay over and die.. because of ph lockout caused by stagnant water soaked up in your heavily compacted soil releasing time release nutes for a month in just one watering.

5) you can crop at anytime you want... but if you want to do it right... you will wait for the pistils (white hairs on a new flower) to turn to a darker color (usually brown or orange), the calyxs to swell (this is the pod the pistils grow out of) and the trichromes (the best part. tris are the 'frost' or sugar coating the buds get in late stage flowering... aka resin glands) to change from a clear color(mental high, quick pick me up. ideal for work), to milky/transluscent (best of both worlds), to amber (prepare to sit on the couch all day and eat oreos while watching stupid shit on tv)

keep in mind most weed you buy on the street is nowhere even remotely close as potent as a plant you have grown, with proper care. often my premature buds are so potent as compared to the local schwag that goes around on the streets that i will get higher off of 2-3 tokes of what ive grown vs smoking a 1/4 of the bagscwag...

hope it helps... happy growing and welcome to RIU. you can learn alot here

yak never mind.

When the 2 smooth leaves fall off the plant is "vegging" 5 tip leaf just usually means 3 nodes.

Typically heres the timeline:

4-6 week veg (18 hours of light, 6 of dark). Start counting this from when the small round leave fall off.
6-12 week budding. (4 weeks is amazing...I wish.) Around the 8 week mark you are usually watching the plant for a sign its ready...let the plant tell you when its ready..you wouldnt plant an apple tree and set your harvest date that day...you would want to watch and SEE when the apples are ready.
~1 week drying, then ~2 weeks to cure.

Definitely veg under the blue MH bulb, and flower under the red hps bulb. 12 hours of light and 12 of dark is the trigger for the plant to produce flowers. It may take a few weeks to show pistils or balls after you switch.

Go easy on the nutes...tiny amount the first time, then slowly work it up until its at full strength...

prot

the debate is this-
Mh produces large amounts of UVB. hps produces large amounts of UVA.
UVB is very harmful. to counter the effects of UVB (the effects are known to us as sunburn) the plant produces heavier resin glands.
because the resin glands are the plants only known natural defense against UVB light... thats right... we smoke sunblock to get high. i always thought that was funny when put like that.
HPS produces large amounts of UVA light. 90% of the light that hits the earth surface is in the UVA band. so HPS closely mimics the spectrum of natural light.... which alows the plant to grow at peak performance. by switching to MH, you redirect a portion energy used by the plant for bud production to resin production. more resin = you get higher. some strains will react better than others to this treatment, as with all treatments to get better yields, its a matter of experimentation to achieve results that work best for you.

so HPS gives heavier yields, and MH gives more potent yields.
its really not much of a debate, its proven science, yet there are tons of people that will argue till there blue in the face about HPS is THE superior lamp for flowering. just because you buy an hps and get heavier buds doesnt mean they are better buds, there just heavier, denser buds with less resin glands than you could have gotten if you had known just a little bit more about HID lighting, and how it actually works vs. what you read off the internet or what the salesman at the hydro store tells you.
using artificial light is an artform. like drawing freehand, anyone can do it, but to master it, it takes time, patience, research, lots of practice, and a little luck along the way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grow_light

High-pressure sodium lamps

High pressure sodium lamps yield yellow lighting (2200K) and have a very poor color rendering index of 22. They are used for the second (or reproductive) phase of the growth. If high pressure sodium lamps are used for the vegetative phase, plants will usually grow slightly more quickly. The major drawback to growing under high pressure sodium alone is that the plants tend to be taller and leggier with a longer internodal length than plants grown under metal halide. . They are used in less color critical applications such as parking lots, street lights and for supplemental greenhouse lighting. The benefit of high pressure sodium lamps to the horticultural industry is their ability to enhance the fruiting and flowering process in plants. Orange/red spectrum HPS is the spectrum plants use in their reproductive processes, which generally produces larger harvests of higher quality herbs, vegetables, fruits or flowers.




Plants have been growing for millions of years...vegging under blue light and flowering under red...trust me you wont beat nature. ADD uvb using a #5 reptile uv lamp...MH have negligible amounts of UVB, large amounts of heat...and the WRONG spectrum to grow dense "high quality" buds.


Not trying to start shit, im not here to see who can piss higher...people forget mj is a plant and all plants follow rules...there are people who tell you putting magnets on your fuel line in your car saves money...they believe it themselves...they swear they are saving money when in reality they are seeing what they want. Im only here saying veg under mh, flower under HPS and in the last week or 2 add supplemental uvb for resin production. Dont take the hps away though.


prot

Guys, honestley thanks ever so much. I really appreciate the input.

The longest journey starts with a single step and thats what ive just taken.

Hopefully one day i will be able to advise as you are!

I have an MH conversion bulb coming in the mail next week (NH360CE/EN SUNLUX ULTRA ACE HPS 360W). I am vegging under a 400W MH and 3 24" flouros around the sides. each holding a pair of 34w 4000K U-bends. My MH is a high bay 31" aluminum relfector. I have a spare one.

After reading this thread I wonder if it would be beneficial to use the spare 400w MH along with the HPS conversion bulb? I would have to mount it vertical on the shower door Which I plan to replace the glass with MDF so that I can mount an extraction fan in it. I would also have to make a reflector to replace the 30" tin can reflector on the spare light. Also should i leave the 4000K flouros or would it be worth while to invest in the 3000K bulbs?

I was going to start a new thread but this one seems to have the right people commenting in it.

I use the same hps. with 42w 2700k cfl side lights? wouldn't hurt to have both. guess you would find out if the extra money for the power would me worth it.