A sad situation

Well that sucks! That means even more doctors are gonna be writing Tramadol scripts.

I'm not into opiates as I had problems with them years ago..when I couldn't get pills id get heroin..plain and simple..let the dea petition the drug lords and see what happens...as we all know the drug war is a farce..all this rescheduling will do is make dependent people seek other sources for their drugs,and most likely will increase overdoses and crime involving pills or other opiates..methadone,morphine,dilaudid,opana,codine,etc...those still gonna be prescribed also...whack-a-mole is not the way to handle a problem mr.government sam...

And correct me if I'm wrong,cuz I most likely am going on rumor,but isn't hydrocodone available in canada without a prescription?..I know its easy as fuck to get any pill in mexico..perhaps another huge niche to fill by the drug cartels in the future...

I can't see this happening. that would blow my mind. I figured they probably make other things illegal, so that people keep popping their hydrocodone... but now they are trying to reschedule it?? I wonder what the real motivation is... There must be a new pill coming out.... or they are just going to push oxycodone more??? My guess is that they just want to blow up oxycodone more. It's obviously not being rescheduled for anybody's "safety"... or whatever bullshit they say. It is always about money and power AKA greed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21548230
Interesting article, not to mention mexican cartels are starting to cultivate poppies ive heard.

Like rory said if they make pills harder it will only lead to people in REAL pain having a harder time (look at the new oxy formula and how it makes people sick) and will turn recreational users to cheaper and easier to obtain alternatives ^^ see previous comments on opium/heroin trade.

Ah well whatre you gonna do? Vote for the least worst politician i suppose.

Skuxx said:

I can't see this happening. that would blow my mind. I figured they probably make other things illegal, so that people keep popping their hydrocodone... but now they are trying to reschedule it?? I wonder what the real motivation is... There must be a new pill coming out.... or they are just going to push oxycodone more??? My guess is that they just want to blow up oxycodone more. It's obviously not being rescheduled for anybody's "safety"... or whatever bullshit they say. It is always about money and power AKA greed.

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Skuxx, I've been through this many times with many different substances and pharmas. All of it happens faster now because of the interwebs but what happens is that some folks experiment with what someone brings home from the drug store. They find that it makes them feel good either at the doses perscribed or higher doses. They tell their friends, their friends tell THEIR friends and soon someone dies, is hospitalized, kills someone or turns into an invalid.

usually little is done when it is a proscribed drug - often for many years, sometimes it doesn't take long at all. NBC or CBS or an independent news organization does faulty due diligence, speaking principly to the DEA PR guy and usually a weeping mom or dad "He was such a good boy, his friends must have put him up to it). And then the new scourge is out.

See Bathsalts, GHB, qualuudes, LSD, MDMA and the like. In the case of Hydro - this is like qualuudes were - EVERYONE had a script, all you had to say is "doc, I just can't seem to get to sleep" and bam, you get 30 of them for 30 cents each. In this case it's "Doc, my back is killing me" and you are loaded up with Watson 5 mg.

The problem is that it is a very nice drug, in my opinion one of the best - most people do NOT abuse them to the extent that is being portrayed even when they are not using them for physical pain so much as that existential pain that so many of us who post in this site seem to be afflicted with.

The other problem is that the stuff really works for mid range pain - the 4's and 5's and 6's of wisdom teeth extraction, wrenched backs, poorly healing wounds and moderate breakthrough pain - the sort of thing a kindly doc will not think twice about writing a script for you - and it lasts a good long while. Also, contrary to what the DEA is yapping about, the addiction potential is rather low and practicaly non-existant in genuine sufferers. I know plenty of people who have been taking 4 - 6 5's a day for years and when they are weaned off shortly they suffer sniffles, some muscle aches and a bit of problem sleeping.

The article claims that there are plenty of perfectly good substitutes. In my opinion they are wrong, Tramdol? really? NSAIDS, no mater how strong just don't have the power over sharp or deep pain that hydro does. If hydro is rescheduled the refill timing will be monitored, the pharmacies will hold limited supplies on hand but most importantly, doctors will begin to agonize over their accumulated scripting for fear of oversight.


The last time there was a national prescription "epidemic" was valium - this was never rescheduled but was replaced by alprazolam - a metabolite of valium and when doctors were pushed into proscribing this nEW and IMPROVED benzo they took to it, now if I ask for valium I am instantly subject to suspicion "why Valium sir?". And the class itself is or was too valuable a treatment to be rescheduled although I am sure the DEA would dearly love to do so.

They can't push Oxy because it is already schedule II (rightfully so I suppose, I have great respect and some frear of oxy - as it really IS a gateway drug).


I differ with you on your assessment about it being about the money - Watson is making a SHITLOAD of money off of pills that cost three cents each to make and no money to market or advertise -- all that has been over. Years and years ago I had contracts with many doctors where I was given keys to their offices so that I could maintain their computers at night and they all had boxes of two pill samples of vicodin - this was long before they were discovered as being a recreational drug and the dispenso-boxes were strewn over every conference room and treatment area. These were mostly doctors who specilized in arthritic conditions - but the valium was kept under lock and key. I would commonly borrow just a fe packets from each of these places and no harm was done. Now that is most certainly not the case.

I fear for the pain folks because they will get something that is inferior and of course I lament what this will do to the price of norcos until finally the DEA will have achieved its goal and and people in pain will go wanting or be forced to use schedule II substances and all the problems that causes.

I have a close friend who for some reason was altered from his regimen of 20 mg time release oxy and a script for norcos for breakthrough. He led a fine and healthy lifestyle (except for his colostomy bag). His script was changed to fentanyl and he turned into a zombie. His family and I complained and he demanded something else - he got Opana. Fine you say but now, if he finds it necessary to take more than his alotment - he is forced to suffer until is script is timed for refil.

And of course he can no longer give his good friend an occasional "treat".


We will see how this goes, surely the pharma lobby will have something to say - BUT, national drug laws being what they are, Congress no longer has a say in the scheduling of drugs, it is all run by the DEA and to a far lesser degree by the FDA.

A law was passed last year to limit the amount of other analgesics in the formulary for this drug. I never saw a change and 5/500's still abound.

It is a shame for all of us but as I say, I don't think it is money, more likely it is the puritanical nature of this country - where suffering is in some sadistic way, a virtue - even when it has long been known that those in pain heal faster when that pain is aleviated.

Vicodin is more American than baseball and apple pie... combined.

One of the factorys that make hydros is centered in my town(buddys wife runs the gs/ms maschine),I wonder if it will affect our local economy any way..damn dea fucking everything up..next they gonna want to ban kool aid...it makes people beet red,obese,and jump through walls!

Yet more bullshit resulting from the war on drugs.

and yet pot is still schedule 1. personally I dnt like big pharma, but im also under the belief people should be able to do what they want, if not harming others. If you get hooked on a drug and end up robbing a store to support your habit, the drug shouldnt be banned because "its addictive properties caused me to do something i normally wouldnt". The person should be punished for robbing the store. theres always gonna be something new people are gonna find to smoke, sniff, huff, pop, whatever, and i dnt feel banning these things everytime they come about is gonna solve much. People need to learn to take responsibility for themselves and actions, and the gov't need to stop trying to babysit us all the time

This is no real suprise to me, in my location oxys and opanas hit the streets pretty hard. Opanas started out around $50 for a 40mg but soon shot up to over $100 a 40mg which was when I said Fuck it. Both oxys and opanas are long since gone and heroin which before was almost unheard of has skyrocketed along with the crime rate and all that comes with it. But the real kicker is now they are drug testing if you are prescribed controled substances. My step mother was denied her xanax prescription for her anxiety attacks because she had marijuana in her system. She never abuses xanax and won't even share lol my fiance was on klonopin prescribed of course also for anxiety but she now can't get that because of drug testing. The pot helps more than klonopin. Hydrocodone and oxycodone are pretty much all gone also. I used to be able to get them all the time and now its like digging for dinosaur bones. You may come across 1 measley 5mg hydro but that's pretty much it. Really fuckin sucks honestly. If it wasn't for the grass Idk what I would do.

I always preffered Percocet rather than Vicodin or Hydrocodone anyways. Shit 2 Percocet's do much more to me than 4 Vicodins.

Well that makes some sense because the oxycodone in Percocet is a more potent opioid than hydrocodone; they are both considered full mu-agonists, but oxycodone is stronger, has greater analgesic effect, a slightly better bio availability and quicker onset. Hydrocodone is generally considered to be about ⅔ as strong as oxycodone. They both come in varying dosage forms, though, and Percocet formulations contain acetaminophen (or IBP) just as Vicodin\hydrocodone tablets do. That is a concern for anybody who wants to use those forms of the drug at high doses for recreational purposes, due to the toxicity of the APAP; while oxycodone comes in single ingredient IR\ER tablets.

Let's say you had four 5 mg Vicodin tablets, 20 mg total versus two 5 mg Percocet tablets for 10 mg; 20 mg of hydrocodone is roughly equal to 13 mg of oxycodone, not far off but the oxy would certainly 'feel' better to most people. Of course if you had two 10 mg Percocet tablets for 20 mg it would certainly be stronger. A big reason why the drugs might affect people differently has to due with individual drug metabolism. While both are metabolized by CYP2D6, hydrocodone is considered a pro-drug for it's primary active metabolite hydromorphone and that where most of the analgesia comes from. Oxycodone is itself a potent mu-agonist, while it is also metabolized to some extend by CYP2D6 into oxymorphone.

Nullis said:

Well that makes some sense because the oxycodone in Percocet is a more potent opioid than hydrocodone; they are both considered full mu-agonists, but oxycodone is stronger, has greater analgesic effect, a slightly better bio availability and quicker onset. Hydrocodone is generally considered to be about ⅔ as strong as oxycodone. They both come in varying dosage forms, though, and Percocet formulations contain acetaminophen (or IBP) just as Vicodin\hydrocodone tablets do. That is a concern for anybody who wants to use those forms of the drug at high doses for recreational purposes, due to the toxicity of the APAP; while oxycodone comes in single ingredient IR\ER tablets.
Let's say you had four 5 mg Vicodin tablets, 20 mg total versus two 5 mg Percocet tablets for 10 mg; 20 mg of hydrocodone is roughly equal to 13 mg of oxycodone, not far off but the oxy would certainly 'feel' better to most people. Of course if you had two 10 mg Percocet tablets for 20 mg it would certainly be stronger. A big reason why the drugs might affect people differently has to due with individual drug metabolism. While both are metabolized by CYP2D6, hydrocodone is considered a pro-drug for it's primary active metabolite hydromorphone and that where most of the analgesia comes from. Oxycodone is itself a potent mu-agonist, while it is also metabolized to some extend by CYP2D6 into oxymorphone.

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The thing I don't like about Hydrocodone is that I itch like a motherfucker while on it. Percocet not so much and it just seems to get me floored rather then buzzing and a bit loopy. My favorite opiate of all time is RoxiCodone 30mg. Pure Oxycodone so I crush that bitch up and sniff away. NO APP or what ever that Tylenol crap is called, just straigh Percocet basically.