400w or 600w HPS / MH ? Opinions Please !!!

WildWoodFlower

Active Member
Hi Everyone :) ... Just wrapped up my 4th run and have observed the performance from my setup for each. I am using a 4' (wide) x 3' (deep) 8' (high) [ 12 sq ' ] storage / closet room. I have a 4" exhaust fan and carbon filter at the top of the room that exhausts the air up through the ceiling to a location approx 10 - 12 ft away from the room into the attic. For intake I am only using passive intake as the door to this room sets right next to a window and has sufficient venting at the floor level that keeps a negative pressure and any hints of odor under control. All seems to be ok on the venting and air movement as far as I have seen. Now on my first grow I flowered with a standard open wing hood 150 watt HPS as main light and also added in ( 2 ) Mars Hydro 300 LED [ approx 135 real watt per light ] a little later , which totaled around 420 watts. The first yield was massive almost 9 ounces under these conditions. However I thought that the temps brought on by the open hood and HPS were a little much for the size of room and decided after to switch out the 150 watt HPS for a Mars Hydro LED 600 [ 280 real watt ] giving me even more wattage for the second run.

However after the second run temps were allot easier to control since the LED run much cooler but the yield on run #2 was almost minus half of the first run bringing in only a little over 4 ounces even though I was using more lighting wattage on the second run. I chalked this up too perhaps genetics and simply set up for run #3 using the same genetics as the first run and again under the all LED lights yield was not even close to the first .. around 5 ounces again with buds much smaller than I had seen using the 150w HPS. So I carried out this last run again using the 3 LED lights and No HPS and again noticed the buds are smaller and yield not even close to what I got from the first run using the HPS as main light and LED as side lighting. So now I am under the impression that HPS will produce larger yields for me than LED ..and seemed to do even better when adding in some LED for supplemental lighting with it. So armed with this info , I have decided to go back and try my next run with HPS again since I had such a great turn out using that 150 watt first time. But I figure if I got that good of a turn out with just 150w , I imagine I can improve that even more by switching that 150w out for a 400w or 600w " Air Cooled " hood. Since I had a tad bit of heat issues with the 150 in a open hood I want to try running my exhaust through a closed hood and exhaust into attic as before.

Which brings me to my question. How hot is the air that is being exhausted off of a 400 watt HPS ? I would imagine that it can't be hot enough to start a fire ( but want to be sure ) since it will be being exhausted into a dry attic that I can not monitor. I was thinking moving to a closed air cooled 400w hood would be a perfect upgrade from my open hood 150w for this room. But if the answer is " NO " the exhausted air from the 400w light will not be hot enough to create a fire hazard in the attic then another question arises with the 600w if I can go with 400w w/o any fire hazard , how about a 600w ? My 2 biggest concerns are #1 fire and safety and # 2 being able to keep this size of room cool enough for whatever light I will be using .. which has left me torn between upgrading a bit to a 400w or upgrading allot to a 600w , of course with the small price difference I would rather go with the 600w but I don't want to over upgrade and cause further issues with possible heat or even worse safety issues. I was only leaning toward the 400w cause I can dim it down to the 150w that I was using in the first place should anything not go as planned , however the 600w even on the lowest dim setting would be 250w and that is still 100 watt more than any HPS I have used in this room before. Any suggestion and opinions are highly appreciated ..Thank you all in advance for any input.
 
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rob333

Well-Known Member
Hi Everyone :) ... Just wrapped up my 4th run and have observed the performance from my setup for each. I am using a 4' (wide) x 3' (deep) 8' (high) [ 12 sq ' ] storage / closet room. I have a 4" exhaust fan and carbon filter at the top of the room that exhausts the air up through the ceiling to a location approx 10 - 12 ft away from the room into the attic. For intake I am only using passive intake as the door to this room sets right next to a window and has sufficient venting at the floor level that keeps a negative pressure and any hints of odor under control. All seems to be ok on the venting and air movement as far as I have seen. Now on my first grow I flowered with a standard open wing hood 150 watt HPS as main light and also added in ( 2 ) Mars Hydro 300 LED [ approx 135 real watt per light ] a little later , which totaled around 420 watts. The first yield was massive almost 9 ounces under these conditions. However I thought that the temps brought on by the open hood and HPS were a little much for the size of room and decided after to switch out the 150 watt HPS for a Mars Hydro LED 600 [ 280 real watt ] giving me even more wattage for the second run. However after the second run temps were allot easier to control since the LED run much cooler but the yield on run #2 was almost minus half of the first run bringing in only a little over 4 ounces even though I was using more lighting wattage on the second run. I chalked this up too perhaps genetics and simply set up for run #3 using the same genetics as the first run and again under the all LED lights yield was not even close to the first .. around 5 ounces again with buds much smaller than I had seen using the 150w HPS. So I carried out this last run again using the 3 LED lights and No HPS and again noticed the buds are smaller and yield not even close to what I got from the first run using the HPS as main light and LED as side lighting. So now I am under the impression that HPS will produce larger yields for me than LED ..and seemed to do even better when adding in some LED for supplemental lighting with it. So armed with this info , I have decided to go back and try my next run with HPS again since I had such a great turn out using that 150 watt first time. But I figure if I got that good of a turn out with just 150w , I imagine I can improve that even more by switching that 150w out for a 400w or 600w " Air Cooled " hood. Since I had a tad bit of heat issues with the 150 in a open hood I want to try running my exhaust through a closed hood and exhaust into attic as before. Which brings me to my question. How hot is the air that is being exhausted off of a 400 watt HPS ? I would imagine that it can't be hot enough to start a fire ( but want to be sure ) since it will be being exhausted into a dry attic that I can not monitor. I was thinking moving to a closed air cooled 400w hood would be a perfect upgrade from my open hood 150w for this room. But if the answer is " NO " the exhausted air from the 400w light will not be hot enough to create a fire hazard in the attic then another question arises with the 600w if I can go with 400w w/o any fire hazard , how about a 600w ? My 2 biggest concerns are #1 fire and safety and # 2 being able to keep this size of room cool enough for whatever light I will be using .. which has left me torn between upgrading a bit to a 400w or upgrading allot to a 600w , of course with the small price difference I would rather go with the 600w but I don't want to over upgrade and cause further issues with possible heat or even worse safety issues. I was only leaning toward the 400w cause I can dim it down to the 150w that I was using in the first place should anything not go as planned , however the 600w even on the lowest dim setting would be 250w and that is still 100 watt more than any HPS I have used in this room before. Any suggestion and opinions are highly appreciated ..Thank you all in advance for any input.
dude no one will read this lol i would go the 600 for veg 400 for flower or combine the 2 peace
 

rob333

Well-Known Member
Hi Everyone :) ... Just wrapped up my 4th run and have observed the performance from my setup for each. I am using a 4' (wide) x 3' (deep) 8' (high) [ 12 sq ' ] storage / closet room. I have a 4" exhaust fan and carbon filter at the top of the room that exhausts the air up through the ceiling to a location approx 10 - 12 ft away from the room into the attic. For intake I am only using passive intake as the door to this room sets right next to a window and has sufficient venting at the floor level that keeps a negative pressure and any hints of odor under control. All seems to be ok on the venting and air movement as far as I have seen. Now on my first grow I flowered with a standard open wing hood 150 watt HPS as main light and also added in ( 2 ) Mars Hydro 300 LED [ approx 135 real watt per light ] a little later , which totaled around 420 watts. The first yield was massive almost 9 ounces under these conditions. However I thought that the temps brought on by the open hood and HPS were a little much for the size of room and decided after to switch out the 150 watt HPS for a Mars Hydro LED 600 [ 280 real watt ] giving me even more wattage for the second run. However after the second run temps were allot easier to control since the LED run much cooler but the yield on run #2 was almost minus half of the first run bringing in only a little over 4 ounces even though I was using more lighting wattage on the second run. I chalked this up too perhaps genetics and simply set up for run #3 using the same genetics as the first run and again under the all LED lights yield was not even close to the first .. around 5 ounces again with buds much smaller than I had seen using the 150w HPS. So I carried out this last run again using the 3 LED lights and No HPS and again noticed the buds are smaller and yield not even close to what I got from the first run using the HPS as main light and LED as side lighting. So now I am under the impression that HPS will produce larger yields for me than LED ..and seemed to do even better when adding in some LED for supplemental lighting with it. So armed with this info , I have decided to go back and try my next run with HPS again since I had such a great turn out using that 150 watt first time. But I figure if I got that good of a turn out with just 150w , I imagine I can improve that even more by switching that 150w out for a 400w or 600w " Air Cooled " hood. Since I had a tad bit of heat issues with the 150 in a open hood I want to try running my exhaust through a closed hood and exhaust into attic as before. Which brings me to my question. How hot is the air that is being exhausted off of a 400 watt HPS ? I would imagine that it can't be hot enough to start a fire ( but want to be sure ) since it will be being exhausted into a dry attic that I can not monitor. I was thinking moving to a closed air cooled 400w hood would be a perfect upgrade from my open hood 150w for this room. But if the answer is " NO " the exhausted air from the 400w light will not be hot enough to create a fire hazard in the attic then another question arises with the 600w if I can go with 400w w/o any fire hazard , how about a 600w ? My 2 biggest concerns are #1 fire and safety and # 2 being able to keep this size of room cool enough for whatever light I will be using .. which has left me torn between upgrading a bit to a 400w or upgrading allot to a 600w , of course with the small price difference I would rather go with the 600w but I don't want to over upgrade and cause further issues with possible heat or even worse safety issues. I was only leaning toward the 400w cause I can dim it down to the 150w that I was using in the first place should anything not go as planned , however the 600w even on the lowest dim setting would be 250w and that is still 100 watt more than any HPS I have used in this room before. Any suggestion and opinions are highly appreciated ..Thank you all in advance for any input.
if its ya 4th grow u should no some stuff by now
 

WildWoodFlower

Active Member
if its ya 4th grow u should no some stuff by now
I did learn some bro , just not as much as I would like yet lol.. but I guess what I am really worried about is how hot will the air be coming off the lights that will be pumped into the attic I know the HID lights themselves can get pretty damn hot , but what about the air exhausted off them ? could that exhausted air be hot enough to cause any fire issues with anything that may be up in that attic ? BTW thanks for the reply :)
 

eyderbuddy

Well-Known Member
  • Mars Hydro are not a fair LED comparisson. Those LEDS are old, and frankly horrible. They advertise themselves as 300 watt lights when they're really 130 watt lights. They're only good as small veg lights. And their spectrum is blurple.
  • And if your choice is between an HPS / MH & 400 / 600W go for the 600 HPS. It's much more efficient in every sense.
 

WildWoodFlower

Active Member
  • Mars Hydro are not a fair LED comparisson. Those LEDS are old, and frankly horrible. They advertise themselves as 300 watt lights when they're really 130 watt lights. They're only good as small veg lights. And their spectrum is blurple.
  • And if your choice is between an HPS / MH & 400 / 600W go for the 600 HPS. It's much more efficient in every sense.
Thank You !! Now that makes sense on why I was getting better yield results using the HPS along with the LED instead of LED alone. Guess you hit the nail on the head with those Mars units being older, kinda weak and " blurple " they even look like they emit much more blue / white than red spectrum. makes perfect sense that they would be much better for veg rather flower. Also thanks for the input on the 600 over a 400. Now just one deciding factor .. I have never had or been around any HID above the 150 watt I have. I know it radiates some heat but with my exhaust I was able to easily keep room temps in the low 70's w/o much issue ( and that was open hood ). So a 600 watt HPS ( closed air cooled hood ) , what kind of air temps would I be looking @ coming off the light and exhaust ? That would be the only thing I have left in question. I am a bit concerned about pumping " super heated / hot " air from the light into the attic. I would imagine that the heat that would come from it would not be nearly enough to ignite any materials stored up there, but then again I never felt the heat that comes off of anything larger than 150 watt , so really don't know.
 

Dear ol" Thankful Grower!

Well-Known Member
Thank You !! Now that makes sense on why I was getting better yield results using the HPS along with the LED instead of LED alone. Guess you hit the nail on the head with those Mars units being older, kinda weak and " blurple " they even look like they emit much more blue / white than red spectrum. makes perfect sense that they would be much better for veg rather flower. Also thanks for the input on the 600 over a 400. Now just one deciding factor .. I have never had or been around any HID above the 150 watt I have. I know it radiates some heat but with my exhaust I was able to easily keep room temps in the low 70's w/o much issue ( and that was open hood ). So a 600 watt HPS ( closed air cooled hood ) , what kind of air temps would I be looking @ coming off the light and exhaust ? That would be the only thing I have left in question. I am a bit concerned about pumping " super heated / hot " air from the light into the attic. I would imagine that the heat that would come from it would not be nearly enough to ignite any materials stored up there, but then again I never felt the heat that comes off of anything larger than 150 watt , so really don't know.
Bro shorten those posts haha honestly I’m my opinion if your dropping the hps for a mars hydro or mixing em why not get quantum boards they stay cooler no need for pumping super heat less wattage and a lot of people are blowing shit up with em I’ll tag you on the quantum board threado
 

Banana444

Well-Known Member
I did learn some bro , just not as much as I would like yet lol.. but I guess what I am really worried about is how hot will the air be coming off the lights that will be pumped into the attic I know the HID lights themselves can get pretty damn hot , but what about the air exhausted off them ? could that exhausted air be hot enough to cause any fire issues with anything that may be up in that attic ? BTW thanks for the reply :)
I wouldnt worry any about the hot air causing a fire, but exhausting warm humid air into your attic will eventually cause mold.
 

WildWoodFlower

Active Member
I wouldnt worry any about the hot air causing a fire, but exhausting warm humid air into your attic will eventually cause mold.
Great I was more worried about the fire hazard from the exhausted heated air than a mold hazard ( that's what I wanted to here , lol ). Not so much worried about mold as the attic is very well ventilated @ each end of the house with big vents leading to the outside as well as side vented under the soffit the entire length on the sides of the house. Thanks for the info :D
 

WildWoodFlower

Active Member
Bro shorten those posts haha honestly I’m my opinion if your dropping the hps for a mars hydro or mixing em why not get quantum boards they stay cooler no need for pumping super heat less wattage and a lot of people are blowing shit up with em I’ll tag you on the quantum board threado
Sy guys just wanted to make sure I was being clear ..plus a bit stoned too & typing away w/o paying attention lol. Thanks for the info man looks really cool but a little more tech than I am looking to get into I think for a single plant grow. Hell I may even do a quick run with the 150w once more , If I can pull 8-9 oz off 1 plant again just using it and the LED's for side lighting I may just save the $ on an upgrade and stick with what I already have..I can live with that for personal off a single lady.
 

Dear ol" Thankful Grower!

Well-Known Member
Sy guys just wanted to make sure I was being clear ..plus a bit stoned too & typing away w/o paying attention lol. Thanks for the info man looks really cool but a little more tech than I am looking to get into I think for a single plant grow. Hell I may even do a quick run with the 150w once more , If I can pull 8-9 oz off 1 plant again just using it and the LED's for side lighting I may just save the $ on an upgrade and stick with what I already have..I can live with that for personal off a single lady.
You have pics of that harvest ?
 

WildWoodFlower

Active Member

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Banana444

Well-Known Member
Great I was more worried about the fire hazard from the exhausted heated air than a mold hazard ( that's what I wanted to here , lol ). Not so much worried about mold as the attic is very well ventilated @ each end of the house with big vents leading to the outside as well as side vented under the soffit the entire length on the sides of the house. Thanks for the info :D
I would recommend venting outside. The problem comes when it gets cold outside, the warm moist air causes moisture to condense and collect on your roof decking. In the winter it will look like frost on the decking, then come spring time when the temps get above freezing, boom, there will be mold everywhere. Its not that difficult to vent outside, just buy a duct collar and screw it to the decking (use short screws like 1/2" so you dont screw thru to the shingles) where one of your passive roof vents is. Good luck!
 

thumper60

Well-Known Member
I did learn some bro , just not as much as I would like yet lol.. but I guess what I am really worried about is how hot will the air be coming off the lights that will be pumped into the attic I know the HID lights themselves can get pretty damn hot , but what about the air exhausted off them ? could that exhausted air be hot enough to cause any fire issues with anything that may be up in that attic ? BTW thanks for the reply :)
if u live in cold climate don't be blowing warm humid air in to cold attic=mold
 

Mass Medicinals

Well-Known Member
We used a 600 w HPS/MH for a 4x4x8. It worked too well in terms of bud output. We vented outside through a window mount. Also grew in coco. good luck whichever way you go. That DWC grow photo was impressive btw.
 

WildWoodFlower

Active Member
I would recommend venting outside. The problem comes when it gets cold outside, the warm moist air causes moisture to condense and collect on your roof decking. In the winter it will look like frost on the decking, then come spring time when the temps get above freezing, boom, there will be mold everywhere. Its not that difficult to vent outside, just buy a duct collar and screw it to the decking (use short screws like 1/2" so you dont screw thru to the shingles) where one of your passive roof vents is. Good luck!
Good catch , I wasn't thinking about that. I will be buying some more ducting and a joiner and try to get that taken care of asap thanks ! The only reason I didn't run the exhaust all the way to outside at first was I was worried that it would create visible steam like my dryer vent does in the winter. I was even gonna run it right along the chimney ( not sure if that would have helped or not ), but any suggestion's on what to do about masking the steam. That makes total sense about the mold now just have to figure how I can run it all the way out and remain stealth.
 

WildWoodFlower

Active Member
We used a 600 w HPS/MH for a 4x4x8. It worked too well in terms of bud output. We vented outside through a window mount. Also grew in coco. good luck whichever way you go. That DWC grow photo was impressive btw.
Thank you , it would have been very nice had I not experienced so many issues with that grow, but I was happy with the yield for sure ....Would the air that came off the 600 watter exhaust be even close enough to ignite lets say a newspaper if it was within close proximity? I am thinking over all my options on what to do , but I guess I'm gonna have to get perspective on how hot the exhausted air will be. I was even considering maybe venting to an adjacent room during winter months for extra heat ( just a thought ) but surly not if its hazardous hot. I am not sure why but I have this imagine in my head of the exhaust heat being so intense as to melt things close to the exhaust ..I hope and would think I am wrong .. I know its gonna be pretty warm but nothing near that extent I would hope, lol
 

Mass Medicinals

Well-Known Member
Thank you , it would have been very nice had I not experienced so many issues with that grow, but I was happy with the yield for sure ....Would the air that came off the 600 watter exhaust be even close enough to ignite lets say a newspaper if it was within close proximity? I am thinking over all my options on what to do , but I guess I'm gonna have to get perspective on how hot the exhausted air will be. I was even considering maybe venting to an adjacent room during winter months for extra heat ( just a thought ) but surly not if its hazardous hot. I am not sure why but I have this imagine in my head of the exhaust heat being so intense as to melt things close to the exhaust ..I hope and would think I am wrong .. I know its gonna be pretty warm but nothing near that extent I would hope, lol
I think everyone goes through a, "will this result in a fire" fear when putting their first grow room together. Our 600 watt hood used 6" ducting, that ran about 5-7 feet from light to fan to window vent. The air leaving the tent was never close to the temp needed to set something on fire. And the fan also reduced the light hood temperature so I could touch the top of the hood and keep my hand very close to the glass. I would just double or triple check that all devices are properly attached and fixed securely.

The venting air is not hazardous. And it's actually not a bad way to heat a room in your place. I did that during winter growing sessions. If you're really trying to maximize that, and have a room to fully dedicate to the grow. Have your flowering lights be on through the night. Electricity is cheaper during this period and it will be the time when you most want extra heat in your place. And will reduce the temp differences.
 

WildWoodFlower

Active Member
I think everyone goes through a, "will this result in a fire" fear when putting their first grow room together. Our 600 watt hood used 6" ducting, that ran about 5-7 feet from light to fan to window vent. The air leaving the tent was never close to the temp needed to set something on fire. And the fan also reduced the light hood temperature so I could touch the top of the hood and keep my hand very close to the glass. I would just double or triple check that all devices are properly attached and fixed securely.

The venting air is not hazardous. And it's actually not a bad way to heat a room in your place. I did that during winter growing sessions. If you're really trying to maximize that, and have a room to fully dedicate to the grow. Have your flowering lights be on through the night. Electricity is cheaper during this period and it will be the time when you most want extra heat in your place. And will reduce the temp differences.
Thank You for the help and insight ... Decided to go through and get a 600w :bigjoint: . I figure even if its a bit much for this room , I can bring it down a setting or two to 400w or 250w .. Plus will be able to use it should I move to a bigger room in the future as well ..So guess it's a win win , Was really glad to hear my expectations of exhausted heat were over exaggerated, that was a big worry !!!
 

ANC

Well-Known Member
I refuse to run HPS on anything but concrete flooring. If it explodes, it tends to send incendiary pieces everywhere.
 
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