2 prong to gfci conversion

potsticker

potsticker

Active Member
The outlet's in my grow space are the 2 prong kind, without a ground. I have heard that replacing the receptacle with a GFCI will still protect the circuit (and house) from ground faults. I think this is ok to do in the US as long as it's labeled NO GROUND. I assume it would provide little to no equipment protection. Has anybody done this or know otherwise?
 
GFCI is only for mechanical protection. It will not protect your circuit breaker. You can also just have 1 GFI, and wire your other receptacles of of that and they will be pretected as well.

99% of the time i dont give a fuck about the ground, unless its needed for operation.

Grounds are so fucking redudnant, you already have one, its your neutral.
 
So you don't think I'll have much to worry about? I won't be using more than 800W on that circuit anyway.
 
Your golden. A GFI plug only is protecting "You" from getting hit. If there is a short it ground out at the plug but still will short back to the breaker.

Thats why they are mainly used withing 6' of a water source.
 
Ok so I finally got around to installing the GFCI. The plug works fine and the button on the plug trips the GFCI but, when I insert my GFCI tester and press the button, it does NOT trip the GFCI. It also says missing ground which I expected but it doesn't seem to be offering any kind of extra protection.

So my question is am I gaining any extra protection by using a GFCI in a two wire setup or is it really no different than just using one of those little grey 2 prong to 3 prong converters?
 
potsticker said:
Ok so I finally got around to installing the GFCI. The plug works fine and the button on the plug trips the GFCI but, when I insert my GFCI tester and press the button, it does NOT trip the GFCI. It also says missing ground which I expected but it doesn't seem to be offering any kind of extra protection.

So my question is am I gaining any extra protection by using a GFCI in a two wire setup or is it really no different than just using one of those little grey 2 prong to 3 prong converters?
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Fisrt off you should replace your box ( if not already ) with a standerd metal box. While you are at the home depot ask the guy for a 5 pack of ground tails. (elcetrical section) the gount tail will screw into the back of the metal box and then connect directly to your GFCI.

Let me know if you need any more help!

CC:bigjoint::bigjoint:
 
Depending if you can pull this off...
Go to the hardware store and buy a 6ft copper ground rod, a ground rod lug (connects a wire) and enough copper wire (not thin speaker wire but thicker solid copper wire like normal house wiring) to get to your ungrounded outlet. Pound in the rod (outside of course in the earth), connect the copper with the ground lug and connect the other end to the ground of your GFI.

That outlet is now grounded. If you run copper ground from that outlet to others in your room, they to will be grounded.

Ground is your friend. It helps you from getting shocked by leaking electricity and when you put water and electricity together, you will have stray voltages.
 
customcloset said:
Fisrt off you should replace your box ( if not already ) with a standerd metal box. While you are at the home depot ask the guy for a 5 pack of ground tails. (elcetrical section) the gount tail will screw into the back of the metal box and then connect directly to your GFCI.

Let me know if you need any more help!

CC:bigjoint::bigjoint:
Click to expand...

Will "grounding" the plug to the box do anything if the box isn't grounded? :wall:
 
Dirty Harry said:
Depending if you can pull this off...
Go to the hardware store and buy a 6ft copper ground rod, a ground rod lug (connects a wire) and enough copper wire (not thin speaker wire but thicker solid copper wire like normal house wiring) to get to your ungrounded outlet. Pound in the rod (outside of course in the earth), connect the copper with the ground lug and connect the other end to the ground of your GFI.

That outlet is now grounded. If you run copper ground from that outlet to others in your room, they to will be grounded.

Ground is your friend. It helps you from getting shocked by leaking electricity and when you put water and electricity together, you will have stray voltages.
Click to expand...

Thanks dirty harry. I've done that same thing before in the military. I have a background in electronics (way in the background ;-)). We'd bury 5 of those 12 ft copper pipes, dig little motes around them, fill the motes with salt and water every morning. All five grounds would be connected together to provide a ground for the whole unit. Works very, very well.

That being said, it would actually be easier to just run a ground wire down to my breaker box but I'm trying to avoid all that. All I'm really wondering is if the GFCI I have on there now is offering me any protection at all over a regular receptacle. I've been told that it DOES but see no evidence of it based on my GFCI tester.
 
GFCI = Ground fault circuit interrupter. No you do not have more protection then a regular plug because u have no ground. And yes you are completely right....... a metal box will NOT help if it is not grounded.
with that being said , i ussally dont use a ground either (unless its handy and right there) just so u dont have any problems in future go ahead and replace the gfi with a regular plug. (gfi's are junk , they get a year old and just dont work anymore......the lil breaker feature inside wears out and it just dont "trip" like it is supposed to)
code in US does say install within 6' of a water source.....but thats just code , if everybody went by that , then all our houses would be condemned!
 
wyteboi said:
GFCI = Ground fault circuit interrupter. No you do not have more protection then a regular plug because u have no ground.
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Excellent! Thank you, thank you, thank you wyteboi! That makes perfect sense. I wish someone had told me that from the get go. I'll keep the GFCI on there for now since the old plug fell to pieces when I removed it.

Thanks again to everyone, +rep all around!
 
wyteboi makes a good point that gfcis and all of there look a likes are bullshit!! However, but i will say this.

Being grounded is important!!

Everything, besides rubber has the ability to be a conductor of electicity. When you use a ground tail to your mettal box what you are allowing is for a path of excape via whatever the box is connected to (cabinet, stud, drywall, condit, whatever). So if there is a short and 110 volts of electricity are "rejected" from the appliance that then will go throught the ground and dissipate throughout the cabinet, stud, dywall, conduit, or whatever (not frying your appliance and not starting a fire). If this is not an option (meaning there is no ground at all) the 110 volts will be "rejected" from the non grounded receptical then the electrical current will "bounce" back to the appliance and eithor fry the motor or start a fire.

Now this is for a situation where say the house gets struck by lighting or a fluck voltage influx. If there is a perminate problem in your wiring you are calling the insurenance company unless you have the copper nailed into the ground, or you run a single 14 gage wire into the basement or wherever and stip 10 in and wrap it aroung a water pipe.

Hope this helps,

CC:bigjoint::bigjoint:
 
If your are replacing a plastic box with a metal one, and there is no ground connected to the new metal box, make a ground.
Run a wire from a near by METAL water pipe (WATER!! NOT A GAS PIPE) to your metal box or outlet, your grounded. They make little clamps just for this purpose.

With out a functional ground, you are really playing with fire.
 
I hear what you're saying but even if I had a water pipe on the second floor (which I don't) how would I know It's actually grounded? Correct me if I'm wrong but if the pipe isn't grounded wouldn't that be more of a hazard to anyone touching the pipes or using the water? I'm asking because I don't know; not trying to be a smart ass.

-edit-
On closer inspection I do have steam radiator pipes upstairs. Not sure if those would be considered water pipes or if they're even grounded.
 
a working cold water pipe will always have ground potential because the water in the pipe will be grounded unless pvc was run all the way from the source(including the underground pipe.)to meet electric codes, it must be all copper to your water meter and the meter must be bonded so it will provide a ground path if the pipes are drained.
your steam pipes would not meet code but are probably grounded. attach a wire to 1 and connect it to the GFI ground term, it your tester works, it is grounded. maybe not to code but it's safer than not being grounded.
 
I agree with what mrmadcow said.
I am not sure where your at, but in the USA it is code that copper water pipes are installed from the water meter to all taps AND that there is a bonding wire that connects the copper from the house side of the meter to the city side of the meter (A wire connects the in and out side of the meter). There are exceptions for modular and trailer but I am talking normal built house.
The city water pipe that connects to the meter exits the ground, so it is in effect a hallow ground rod. The bonding wire on the meter means all copper water pipes are thus tied to ground.
 
I live in the northeast and the house I rent is over 100 years old. I don't know anything about building codes or any of that. Where would I find the water meter? Is it usually outside or in the basement?
 
Codes are changing quick , i dont even think they use copper on the new homes any more ? and bonding the water lines to the panel wasnt even code until about 10 years ago. oh and until they change code again (which they are doing) the white wire (neutral) IS your ground . A ground is a "backup neutral" and a backup ground would be the water pipe bond. thats the easy way to explain it. I KNOW my neutral is good so there is no need for a ground. Now thats NOT the safest way to do things but either is putting a HID lamp into your home. Chances are if your house is that old then you dont have a real ground anyways. THE ONLY real ground is a ground rod hammered into the ground right by your meter, if you do not have one then your home has no ground at all. See so its not THAT unsafe.
 
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