Something that should be taught in schools.

The Flower of Life

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7GJ-8SY068

I think the second most liked comment on this video is brilliant in describing die-hard atheists mindset when approaching things like this, I could not of said it better myself... I know some people will be quick to disagree with this video, especially with the bible and crop circle references, the name "Spirit Science" is enough to raise a skeptical eyebrow for most... The creator of the video is not just trying to manipulate your mind with pretty pictures then falsely comparing them to platforms of science, every bit of science and geometry he uses seems to match up with The Flower of Life perfectly... Support it or not, I'd like to hear your take on it.

I wouldn't want this taught in schools, it seems pretty silly. Here's a few things the producer brought up that I find hard to take seriously: He states there are many bibles around the world, not just the christian bible? All bibles are christian by definition. Everything in the universe is geometric, what does that even mean, geometric as opposed to what? The numbers 3 and 5 go on forever? How so? He starts to name the places where the Flower of Life is located shows this flower of about 5 different cultures, then names others places without showing their flower, then ends with 'and I think 14 other places'. Can you imagine real science glossing over details like this? Maybe he should have done some fact checking before making this video. A disembodied spirit 'expanding' it's consciousness around itself, and this is the first sphere in the circle of life? Says who, and what does it mean? He just posits one thing after another backing none of it up, finding what he wants to find to fit his agenda, seemingly pulling it right out of his ass. It's reminiscent of numerology. He peppers this video with statements like 'I'm not making this up', 'don't close your mind', 'give this a chance', 'try to see this in a new way'. No credible sources I'm aware of preface their material this way. Authors who are confident that their serious work is on par with reality don't assume it will be unbelievable to you or ask you to suspend your disbelief. It seems like 'Spirit Science' is not conducted at all like proper science. You may want to study more proper science as it's explanations are much more thorough and satisfying, and much more likely to point us in the direction of reality...

Chief Walkin Eagle said:

I think the second most liked comment on this video is brilliant in describing die-hard atheists mindset when approaching things like this, I could not of said it better myself..

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Let's examine this.
"Because real American science doesn't do actual pattern recognition and it doesn't explain everything. What you call science is only going to explain a narrow atheistic perception of reality. Everything that explains more than atheism can, is automatically pseudo science. You might as well call it heretical, because it goes against your belief that God doesn't exist. Science doesn't know everything, neither do you. Your just trying to protect your self from the bad kharma of whatever you do."

So science is American and science is atheistic? Science is not American, it is universal.
Pseudoscience is a claim being dressed up in the language of science but ignoring actual scientific methodology. It has nothing to do with the claim of a deity. Science requires rigorous controls and skepticism. Pseudoscience tends to prefer anecdote over evidence and typically find fault with controls so they don't use them. Properly applying science to a claim would be to examine all of the ways you can think of to disprove the claim and looking for other possible explanations. Pseudoscience ignores explanations that don't fit the conclusion and only look for supporting evidence. Pseudoscience works backwards from the conclusion, typically begging the question while actual science let's the evidence lead where ever it will. Just a few months ago we came up a possibility that Einstein was wrong about c being a speed limit. If we acted like pseudo-scientists, we would be aggressively defending Einstein and automatically dismissing the possible evidence as wrong. Instead you saw varying levels of excitement, things could get shaken up and new ideas would be needed.

Science is as atheistic as mathematics. There is no agenda but science does require evidence. You give us scientists a reason to believe these things you claim and you will see support by science. However, none of these claims amount to anything more than an initial hypothesis. You have presented a model about reality that you think includes something called spirit. Now explain what that is and what evidence you have that it is more than an idea. Don't come here and claim your evidence isn't being accepted unreasonably because you have none. You have conjecture, nothing more.

I would like to see the op defend the term "spirit science". At first glance, it seems a contradiction. That would be OK if it were an honest mistake. However i suspect an agenda, using the word "science" to legitimize the concept of "spirit" and imply that there is an objective and consequent discipline that involves using the methods and tools of natural philosophy and inquiry to define and describe phenomena rooted in the action of spirit upon matter.

The proper term (to the best of my knowledge) for the action of spirit upon matter is "magic", and that is by definition excluded from a legitimate application of science. Jmo. cn

tyler.durden said:

I wouldn't want this taught in schools, it seems pretty silly. Here's a few things the producer brought up that I find hard to take seriously: He states there are many bibles around the world, not just the christian bible? All bibles are christian by definition. Everything in the universe is geometric, what does that even mean, geometric as opposed to what? The numbers 3 and 5 go on forever? How so? He starts to name the places where the Flower of Life is located shows this flower of about 5 different cultures, then names others places without showing their flower, then ends with 'and I think 14 other places'. Can you imagine real science glossing over details like this? Maybe he should have done some fact checking before making this video. A disembodied spirit 'expanding' it's consciousness around itself, and this is the first sphere in the circle of life? Says who, and what does it mean? He just posits one thing after another backing none of it up, finding what he wants to find to fit his agenda, seemingly pulling it right out of his ass. It's reminiscent of numerology. He peppers this video with statements like 'I'm not making this up', 'don't close your mind', 'give this a chance', 'try to see this in a new way'. No credible sources I'm aware of preface their material this way. Authors who are confident that their serious work is on par with reality don't assume it will be unbelievable to you or ask you to suspend your disbelief. It seems like 'Spirit Science' is not conducted at all like proper science. You may want to study more proper science as it's explanations are much more thorough and satisfying, and much more likely to point us in the direction of reality...

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You're the perfect example of what the dude who posted the second comment is talking about, I suggest you read that comment... And I find your ignorance to the facts that he so simply put to be funny. The fact that he said many bibles around the world is irrelevant, same with the not mentioning the 14 other places, he simply just doesnt want to waste time, its obvious you approach these things with a biased mind so eager to disprove what you believe to be nonsense, for your world would come crashing down for something like this to make sense, so your mind is already made up before you even watch the video. I'd very much like you to elaborate on how the facts just dont add up when hes talking about the Metetrons Cube and the Platonic Solids and the periodic table of elements and how they just cant possibly have anything to do with the flower of life... You're like those who ridiculed professor Robert Moon when he claimed that the 5 platonic solids gave birth to the table of elements thus they make up the universe, do you not believe Robert to be true? And when you combine all platonic solids you get Metetrons Cube which fits in like a puzzle piece to the flower of life. This is only nonsensical to those that strongly oppose spirituality, because they want it to be nonsensical... And I suggest you use google for the numbers 1, 3, and 5, I dont have time to give a math lesson... And the fact that he encourages you to look at this in a new light is also irrelevant, so what if he says that the video is very hard to believe? All that means is that its a big claim that most will find hard to accept, in now way does it suggest that hes not confident in what hes saying and that hes pulling it out of his ass, yet another desperate attempt to make something thats not relevant to have some valid point.

mindphuk said:

Let's examine this.
"Because real American science doesn't do actual pattern recognition and it doesn't explain everything. What you call science is only going to explain a narrow atheistic perception of reality. Everything that explains more than atheism can, is automatically pseudo science. You might as well call it heretical, because it goes against your belief that God doesn't exist. Science doesn't know everything, neither do you. Your just trying to protect your self from the bad kharma of whatever you do."

So science is American and science is atheistic? Science is not American, it is universal.
Pseudoscience is a claim being dressed up in the language of science but ignoring actual scientific methodology. It has nothing to do with the claim of a deity. Science requires rigorous controls and skepticism. Pseudoscience tends to prefer anecdote over evidence and typically find fault with controls so they don't use them. Properly applying science to a claim would be to examine all of the ways you can think of to disprove the claim and looking for other possible explanations. Pseudoscience ignores explanations that don't fit the conclusion and only look for supporting evidence. Pseudoscience works backwards from the conclusion, typically begging the question while actual science let's the evidence lead where ever it will. Just a few months ago we came up a possibility that Einstein was wrong about c being a speed limit. If we acted like pseudo-scientists, we would be aggressively defending Einstein and automatically dismissing the possible evidence as wrong. Instead you saw varying levels of excitement, things could get shaken up and new ideas would be needed.

Science is as atheistic as mathematics. There is no agenda but science does require evidence. You give us scientists a reason to believe these things you claim and you will see support by science. However, none of these claims amount to anything more than an initial hypothesis. You have presented a model about reality that you think includes something called spirit. Now explain what that is and what evidence you have that it is more than an idea. Don't come here and claim your evidence isn't being accepted unreasonably because you have none. You have conjecture, nothing more.

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Thanks for the rant that really doesnt point anything out. Read what I said to tyler and try to disprove the mathematical and geometrical evidence that is shown int he video. Your focusing on the spiritual aspect of the video and not the math and geometry thus resulting in your skepticism. Yes, I know he said that spirit made the first circle, try to not even pay attention to that and focus on what hes trying to pass as fact... I'd very much like to hear how you think that the evidence just doesnt add up and that the universe cant possibly be compatible with a pattern of circles... I look forward to your biased answer.

Chief Walkin Eagle said:

Thanks for the rant that really doesnt point anything out.

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It points out the ridiculousness of the comment that you find so brilliant.

Read what I said to tyler and try to disprove the mathematical and geometrical evidence that is shown int he video. Your focusing on the spiritual aspect of the video and not the thus resulting in your skepticism. Yes, I know he said that spirit made the first circle, try to not even pay attention to that and focus on what hes trying to pass as fact... I'd very much like to hear how you think that the evidence just doesnt add up and that the universe cant possibly be compatible with a pattern of circles... I look forward to your biased answer.

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I did not make a single reference to the video. Do you even read and try to understand what other posters say? You sure didn't seem to do so here. I specifically said that I was examining the comment that you said you couldn't have said better. Switching topics to the video is a nice red herring but doesn't address what you think about what I said regarding why things are called pseudoscience.

mindphuk said:

It points out the ridiculousness of the comment that you find so brilliant.



I did not make a single reference to the video. Do you even read and try to understand what other posters say? You sure didn't seem to do so here. I specifically said that I was examining the comment that you said you couldn't have said better. Switching topics to the video is a nice red herring but doesn't address what you think about what I said regarding why things are called pseudoscience.

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The comment I was referring to simply means that atheists compare everything to modern figures of science and if its not compatible with modern science then it must be false, even though we know NOTHING of the world compared to what really is happening. And that atheists cant accept that spirituality and science go hand in hand. You think scientific laws and rules get thrown out the window when us crazy spiritualists cross over into another life? NO, we simply just discover a lot more science that we never knew existed.

mindphuk said:

It points out the ridiculousness of the comment that you find so brilliant.



I did not make a single reference to the video. Do you even read and try to understand what other posters say? You sure didn't seem to do so here. I specifically said that I was examining the comment that you said you couldn't have said better. Switching topics to the video is a nice red herring but doesn't address what you think about what I said regarding why things are called pseudoscience.

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And I never asked you to give me your take on the comment made, I asked for your take on the video, but you couldnt feel superior trying to disprove that so you went with the comment I pointed out.

Chief Walkin Eagle said:

The comment I was referring to simply means that atheists compare everything to modern figures of science and if its not compatible with modern science then it must be false, even though we know NOTHING of the world compared to what really is happening. And that atheists cant accept that spirituality and science go hand in hand. You think scientific laws and rules get thrown out the window when us crazy spiritualists cross over into another life? NO, we simply just discover a lot more science that we never knew existed.

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I understand what the comment was attempting to say, my post was a counter argument to that. You are conflating two separate things, science and atheism. Now you use phrases like 'modern figures of science' and not explain what that means. Spirituality and science do not go hand-in-hand unless you change the definition of either of them. Science is about discovery about the natural world. If there is something that you think is part of this world and you call it spirit, it is incumbent on you to explain and define these terms, otherwise there is no way to make a value judgement about your claim one way or another. No one is dismissing spiritualism, we are merely asking what do you mean by this term and what is your evidence. So far you haven't answered either question.

Chief Walkin Eagle said:

And I never asked you to give me your take on the comment made, I asked for your take on the video, but you couldnt feel superior trying to disprove that so you went with the comment I pointed out.

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I don't care what you asked for. You posted in a public forum and I am free to take issue with any part of the post I feel like. You made aggrandizing comments about what someone else said and since I considered it complete bullshit, I felt I wanted to address that. If you have a problem with that, then maybe you would feel more at home on a website devoted to people that believe the same as you. It appears you have trouble dealing with criticism of your poor logic and thought processes.

mindphuk said:

I understand what the comment was attempting to say, my post was a counter argument to that. You are conflating two separate things, science and atheism. Now you use phrases like 'modern figures of science' and not explain what that means. Spirituality and science do not go hand-in-hand unless you change the definition of either of them. Science is about discovery about the natural world. If there is something that you think is part of this world and you call it spirit, it is incumbent on you to explain and define these terms, otherwise there is no way to make a value judgement about your claim one way or another. No one is dismissing spiritualism, we are merely asking what do you mean by this term and what is your evidence. So far you haven't answered either question.

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Modern figures of science, everything that has to do with science is what im talking about... If science makes up this world, why is it so crazy that a more advanced science (that would probably appear magical and defy MODERN logic) makes up the next world? Im saying we dont know shit about the world, even with all the advancements in science we have today, we know NOTHING to what is really going on because we are a "species with amnesia" that quote goes into a different subject though. Theres no way to explain the science of spirit with the science we know, how could we explain it with our very limited knowledge or reality? This video is the closest thing we can get to explaining spiritual science. If there is a spiritual world than that would mean that what ever created this universe also created science

mindphuk said:

I don't care what you asked for. You posted in a public forum and I am free to take issue with any part of the post I feel like. You made aggrandizing comments about what someone else said and since I considered it complete bullshit, I felt I wanted to address that. If you have a problem with that, then maybe you would feel more at home on a website devoted to people that believe the same as you. It appears you have trouble dealing with criticism of your poor logic and thought processes.

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Just because you ignorant calculating robots of rationality cant wrap your heads around it doesnt mean its poor logic lol

Man, if there was a few other faces in there than the fan club would be complete lol

You would think the thought would have crossed dudes (Eagle) mind that... "hmmmm, no one on this website is posting anything even resembling an agreement with anything i am saying, maybe i should take a closer look at what everyone is trying to say, instead of skimming over the letters without ever attempting to understand what is being said.

"I think it might be a good idea, to reflect upon yourself, to observe your own behavior in everything you do, to become more conscious of how, what and why you think the way you do... pick it to pieces, examine every spec of your mind and the processes of which your mind goes though in every moment. To observe, critique and question yourself is the most powerful tool any human can ever use... as painful as this may be at first, this is the only path that leads to complete and utter honesty with ones self."
-Zaehet Strife

Zaehet Strife said:

You would think the thought would have crossed dudes (Eagle) mind that... "hmmmm, no one on this website is posting anything even resembling an agreement with anything i am saying, maybe i should take a closer look at what everyone is trying to say, instead of skimming over the letters without ever attempting to understand what is being said."

"I think it might be a good idea, to reflect upon yourself, to observe your own behavior in everything you do, to become more conscious of how, what and why you think the way you do... pick it to pieces, examine every spec of your mind and the processes of which your mind goes though in every moment. To observe, critique and question yourself is the most powerful tool any human can ever use... as painful as this may be at first, this us the only path that leads to complete and utter honesty with ones self."
-Zaehet Strife

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Another fan! I should make me some T-shirts xD

spirit science is ridiculousness

Zaehet Strife said:

You would think the thought would have crossed dudes (Eagle) mind that... "hmmmm, no one on this website is posting anything even resembling an agreement with anything i am saying, maybe i should take a closer look at what everyone is trying to say, instead of skimming over the letters without ever attempting to understand what is being said.

"I think it might be a good idea, to reflect upon yourself, to observe your own behavior in everything you do, to become more conscious of how, what and why you think the way you do... pick it to pieces, examine every spec of your mind and the processes of which your mind goes though in every moment. To observe, critique and question yourself is the most powerful tool any human can ever use... as painful as this may be at first, this is the only path that leads to complete and utter honesty with ones self."
-Zaehet Strife

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And why would any of you agree with what I say? "..Shit... the people who believe that they do nothing but rot in the ground when they die dont agree with anything Im saying... I guess that makes me wrong... Im going to go sit under a tree and dissect what makes up me and re-adjust my morals and way of thinking... Then later on I can be under that that tree rotting in the ground and nothing more"... Wow Zaehat... you sure have shown me the way, boy was I an asshole... xD!

Chief Walkin Eagle said:

Just because you ignorant calculating robots of rationality cant wrap your heads around it doesnt mean its poor logic lol

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Poor logic is demonstrable. Logic has rules, you break the rules, it is poor logic. Trying to defend something as beyond logic or beyond modern scientific knowledge without actually making the effort to show the steps as to how, is the height of arrogance. You accused me of acting superior when it is you that is claiming special knowledge. You keep making assertions without any support. Back up your claims man. That's all I have been asking for. You keep assuming I'm being hypercritical when I keep repeating the same thing, "show us."
So far, all I hear from you is philosophical meanderings. That's nice but with most philosophy, we have no idea on the truth value of a claim. Science is different, it is a philosophy that has a methodology to allow us to evaluate claims. Pretending that you are talking about something that is beyond modern science is meaningless. Science will not change, only the knowledge obtained. You will still have to use logic and reason, the same tools we use today, to defend your premise. So far all you have done is made assertions about something called 'spirit' that you think is a part of our world yet you have not answered the important questions of why do you believe this and why should anyone else?

Quit making claims about the truth value of something about our reality if you are not prepared to defend them. It's fine to have a belief about something but you are doing more when you attack others, especially scientists, for disregarding your wild assumptions when you can't produce good reasons to accept them.

mindphuk said:

Poor logic is demonstrable. Logic has rules, you break the rules, it is poor logic. Trying to defend something as beyond logic or beyond modern scientific knowledge without actually making the effort to show the steps as to how, is the height of arrogance. You accused me of acting superior when it is you that is claiming special knowledge. You keep making assertions without any support. Back up your claims man. That's all I have been asking for. You keep assuming I'm being hypercritical when I keep repeating the same thing, "show us."
So far, all I hear from you is philosophical meanderings. That's nice but with most philosophy, we have no idea on the truth value of a claim. Science is different, it is a philosophy that has a methodology to allow us to evaluate claims. Pretending that you are talking about something that is beyond modern science is meaningless. Science will not change, only the knowledge obtained. You will still have to use logic and reason, the same tools we use today, to defend your premise. So far all you have done is made assertions about something called 'spirit' that you think is a part of our world yet you have not answered the important questions of why do you believe this and why should anyone else?

Quit making claims about the truth value of something about our reality if you are not prepared to defend them. It's fine to have a belief about something but you are doing more when you attack others, especially scientists, for disregarding your wild assumptions when you can't produce good reasons to accept them.

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I like soup.