Do LED Lights Really Improve Yield?

There are pros and cons of both light systems, and when used to their potential and in the right system, they both perform very well. I’ve had tighter buds, less stretch, and higher yields with LED’s in my system, but I struggle with LEDs when seasonal temps make my space colder, and veg plants can be especially finicky about strong light with colder temps.

HID is less efficient but does generate more heat which can add a nice boost of warmth when needed. LEDs can also give more even canopy coverage and PAR ratings with the bar style lights, vs a traditional hot-spot of a single point source of HID. To counter that with HID, you’d need higher ceilings to raise your HID lights for better spread and more even coverage.

My HID stuff grew great weed, and it’s still sitting on my shelf, but now that I’m using tents, I find that LEDs work better for my needs and setup.
 
Im a 1000w Halide 5500k-6000k kind of guy myself. No doubt, HPS will produce more, but there is mounting evidence heavy Blue during flowering, produces more varied chemical profiles, and more varied plant morphology.
Hotrilux has advertised this for year with their 5500k Hortilux Blue. It has also been used for medical research, because of this.

I also kind of digress that LED, are more efficient.

One Question is, how can a light be more efficient, for producing the fullest spectrum possible, that is like the sun, and basically omit the Invisible Spectrum, when 55%, of the Suns Energy, comes from Invisible spectrum? I agree LED has a better overall foot print. But a Hortilux Blue/5500k, and the MMS 1000w Have a spectrum of 280nm-2000+nm, and the same K rating as the sun, at midday.
Also agree both work, and if one lives in a hot climate, and struggle with heat? LED ARE MORE LOGICAL.

What one can do to supply heavier Blue with LED, would be to use ether a Solacure 10,000k UVA/B lamp(s), and a couple of Reptile Infrared Lamps. One need not run the Solacure more than 4 hours per day, or less depending on height from canopy. May not need to run the infrared more than 8-10 hours.
 
I currently putting togeather a self made grow light full spectrum from leds, i just want the ability to be able to control at will everything and not pay hundreds of dollars. Yes I know it's messy no I don't mind, once done prototyping I will cnc aluminum housing
 

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Moflow said:
You have to be careful with the far red, infrared, not too much. It'll cause the plants to stretch too much.
Click to expand...
I may possibly want my plants to stretch? The SUN, is loaded with IR. I specifically use Red, just for the stretching aspect.

Though an 1150w DE Gavita HPS has such powerful IR, it will roast plants at anything less than 3 feet, and 40 inches or a bit more, may be better.

And if one uses a 5500k-6000k Halide, it also has so much Blue, it will greatly counteract the stretch, even though Halide, in reality has as much, or more far red than an HPS, but is also geared more towards the Blue Spectrum, but less total photons, thuse why HPS will produce more.
What I like to do is for maximum production, and taking advantage of different spectrums.

I start seedlings under 1000w Hortilux Blue-5500k, or 1000w MMS-6000k. 20 inches from canopy. I let the seedlings grow into the light intensity. I also have very good fresh air exchange. More than they will ever use. Fan on slight breeze 24/7. Veg Light Duration 24/0. Every 4 days lights out 4 hours to let equipment/mainly bulbs cool off.
Seedlings are also in 36oz Solo Cups. I like big root balls.

Depending on if I can determine M/F, if I cannot, and they need larger containers, I will up pot to at least 1 gallon Medium, as I do not want anywhere near rootbound.
If I know F/M, I will up pot to 5 gallons.
I also Measure how far the light is, from th tops of the plants, and considering they will be in taller/larger containers, I will raise the light back up to match to original distance before transplant, so they will be right back at home with the same light saturation.
I will veg them for however long, and 7-10 days before flip, I switch out to a 1000w Hortilux HPS, and say I am growing a 10 weeks flowering strain, I will use the HPS for 21 days after flip, when on 22nd day, I switch back to the 1000w Halide.
If one is growing a super compact slow growing Indica type, one might start with 1000w HPS, from the start, and then 3 weeks after flip, use a Halide.
Halide is also way cooler than an HPS. HPS has to be 20% higher up.
 
hostagecs said:
I currently putting togeather a self made grow light full spectrum from leds, i just want the ability to be able to control at will everything and not pay hundreds of dollars. Yes I know it's messy no I don't mind, once done prototyping I will cnc aluminum housing
Click to expand...
Are those solar powered lights with nine x 3 watt LEDS?
 
jimihendrix1 said:
I may possibly want my plants to stretch? The SUN, is loaded with IR. I specifically use Red, just for the stretching aspect.

Though an 1150w DE Gavita HPS has such powerful IR, it will roast plants at anything less than 3 feet, and 40 inches or a bit more, may be better.

And if one uses a 5500k-6000k Halide, it also has so much Blue, it will greatly counteract the stretch, even though Halide, in reality has as much, or more far red than an HPS, but is also geared more towards the Blue Spectrum, but less total photons, thuse why HPS will produce more.
What I like to do is for maximum production, and taking advantage of different spectrums.

I start seedlings under 1000w Hortilux Blue-5500k, or 1000w MMS-6000k. 20 inches from canopy. I let the seedlings grow into the light intensity. I also have very good fresh air exchange. More than they will ever use. Fan on slight breeze 24/7. Veg Light Duration 24/0. Every 4 days lights out 4 hours to let equipment/mainly bulbs cool off.
Seedlings are also in 36oz Solo Cups. I like big root balls.

Depending on if I can determine M/F, if I cannot, and they need larger containers, I will up pot to at least 1 gallon Medium, as I do not want anywhere near rootbound.
If I know F/M, I will up pot to 5 gallons.
I also Measure how far the light is, from th tops of the plants, and considering they will be in taller/larger containers, I will raise the light back up to match to original distance before transplant, so they will be right back at home with the same light saturation.
I will veg them for however long, and 7-10 days before flip, I switch out to a 1000w Hortilux HPS, and say I am growing a 10 weeks flowering strain, I will use the HPS for 21 days after flip, when on 22nd day, I switch back to the 1000w Halide.
If one is growing a super compact slow growing Indica type, one might start with 1000w HPS, from the start, and then 3 weeks after flip, use a Halide.
Halide is also way cooler than an HPS. HPS has to be 20% higher up.
Click to expand...
I forgot to state, after vegging for 30-60 days, in 5 gallon containers, depending on strain ect, I will up pot into 20 gallons of medium, at 12/12. Slow growing Indicas that dont stretch, usually dont get more than 10 gallons medium. Most often 5-7.
 
Research shows that spectrum has little to do with yield. As the percentage of blue photons increases, yield decreases (see attached).

In terms of LED's increasing yield, I think the attached paper documents that HPS results in higher yield but the cost of running an HPS over N years is so much higher than an LED light that using HPS can't be justified on a cost basis.

The main issue with spectrum its impact on plant morphology—blue makes plants short and compact, red "encourages growth" (red diodes are very electrically efficient), and far red tends to increase stem elongation so it can help offset the impact of blue photons in a "white" LED.

Many LED are sold as "HPS replacements" and they have a PPFD map with a lot of light in the center but a rapid fall off once you move off center. That allows a company to create a "750 watt" LED at a low price. Growers coming from HPS don't know about PPFD maps so they don't know the difference.

Companies light Spider, Mars, and Migro (and Growcraft, before they went belly up), put the engineering into creating lights that have a more even PPFD map. The engineering and the additional diodes are cost drivers but they, unquestionably, can produce a higher yield.

Most growers don't get the extra yield because they don't give their plants enough light to maximize yield (bud quality and yield quality increase as PPFD increases, though they max out at lower levels). That's a huge issue—if you want to just grow some weed, a lower priced light, with. "hot spot" PPFD map will save you a few hundred dollars. If you want to go for a light with an even PPFD map and will turn up the dimmer, assuming that your grow environment is sound, your chances are very high of at least meeting the seed seller's estimates, which tend to be in the 450-650gm/sqare meter range.

There is no magic to that. We know how cannabis reacts to light, in terms of yield. There's scads of research on that and the results are consistent. It takes 9 photons to make 1 molecule of carbon so if you only provide a modest number of photons, a cannabis plant cannot grow as well as a plant that gets a lot of photons (as long as light is the limiting factor and all other things being equal).

The Frontiers paper is a few years old and is unusual because the research was done in ambient CO2.

To your question—I think in the "Decreasing Blue Photons…" paper HPS will produced more weed but the electricity required is much higher. (I've never even entertained the idea of using HPS.)

I grow for crop yield, crop quality, and bud quality. My buds plants are big, the yields are high but the buds are not the small, cute bud of the month buds. If I was growing in a 4' x 4' tent, in ambient or enhanced CO2, I'd go with a a pair of Spider Farmer G4500's, which are for 2' x 4' tents, and would add a set of Spider Glow R80's to the G4500.

The two light setup gives you some redundancy, they're light and easy to maneuver, and they allow you to improve the light cast because you can set the lights at different heights. The R80's add 80 watts of 660nm light which helps boost the percentage of red light. I've run a few sets of lights through chatGPT and the spectral balance of those lights is really quite something.

I added the R80's to my Growcraft X3 flower light last year and got just the light I was looking for. If I were to continue to grow, I'd DX my Growcraft and go with the G4500. I simply can't find a better combination of spectrum (to shape the plants), PPFD output, and PPFD map unless I go to something like the behemoths at grandmaster.com which are far more expensive (though I'd go with them if I was going with CO2 and wanted to put that kind of money into a grow setup).

Long answer but we're all well served by a significant discussion.
 

Attachments

Delps8 said:
Research shows that spectrum has little to do with yield. As the percentage of blue photons increases, yield decreases (see attached).

In terms of LED's increasing yield, I think the attached paper documents that HPS results in higher yield but the cost of running an HPS over N years is so much higher than an LED light that using HPS can't be justified on a cost basis.

The main issue with spectrum its impact on plant morphology—blue makes plants short and compact, red "encourages growth" (red diodes are very electrically efficient), and far red tends to increase stem elongation so it can help offset the impact of blue photons in a "white" LED.

Many LED are sold as "HPS replacements" and they have a PPFD map with a lot of light in the center but a rapid fall off once you move off center. That allows a company to create a "750 watt" LED at a low price. Growers coming from HPS don't know about PPFD maps so they don't know the difference.

Companies light Spider, Mars, and Migro (and Growcraft, before they went belly up), put the engineering into creating lights that have a more even PPFD map. The engineering and the additional diodes are cost drivers but they, unquestionably, can produce a higher yield.

Most growers don't get the extra yield because they don't give their plants enough light to maximize yield (bud quality and yield quality increase as PPFD increases, though they max out at lower levels). That's a huge issue—if you want to just grow some weed, a lower priced light, with. "hot spot" PPFD map will save you a few hundred dollars. If you want to go for a light with an even PPFD map and will turn up the dimmer, assuming that your grow environment is sound, your chances are very high of at least meeting the seed seller's estimates, which tend to be in the 450-650gm/sqare meter range.

There is no magic to that. We know how cannabis reacts to light, in terms of yield. There's scads of research on that and the results are consistent. It takes 9 photons to make 1 molecule of carbon so if you only provide a modest number of photons, a cannabis plant cannot grow as well as a plant that gets a lot of photons (as long as light is the limiting factor and all other things being equal).

The Frontiers paper is a few years old and is unusual because the research was done in ambient CO2.

To your question—I think in the "Decreasing Blue Photons…" paper HPS will produced more weed but the electricity required is much higher. (I've never even entertained the idea of using HPS.)

I grow for crop yield, crop quality, and bud quality. My buds plants are big, the yields are high but the buds are not the small, cute bud of the month buds. If I was growing in a 4' x 4' tent, in ambient or enhanced CO2, I'd go with a a pair of Spider Farmer G4500's, which are for 2' x 4' tents, and would add a set of Spider Glow R80's to the G4500.

The two light setup gives you some redundancy, they're light and easy to maneuver, and they allow you to improve the light cast because you can set the lights at different heights. The R80's add 80 watts of 660nm light which helps boost the percentage of red light. I've run a few sets of lights through chatGPT and the spectral balance of those lights is really quite something.

I added the R80's to my Growcraft X3 flower light last year and got just the light I was looking for. If I were to continue to grow, I'd DX my Growcraft and go with the G4500. I simply can't find a better combination of spectrum (to shape the plants), PPFD output, and PPFD map unless I go to something like the behemoths at grandmaster.com which are far more expensive (though I'd go with them if I was going with CO2 and wanted to put that kind of money into a grow setup).

Long answer but we're all well served by a significant discussion.
Click to expand...
im reading over these documents, these trials looked solid was wondering if they used clones, seeds, ect. seems like they used tissue cultures for the testings which is good. edit seems like different wordage a few times, some times they say rooted cuttings
 
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