Inflation

PJ Diaz said:

It's true that it's always a game of catch up for wages when it comes to inflation, but the problem is that cost of living increased and general wage increases following spurts of inflation never quite equalize, which inflation ever rising over time, relative to wages.

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Word, think we're saying similar things. That time is where the money is made. If they do ever equalize, it's for a split second.

mooray said:

Word, think we're saying similar things. That time is where the money is made. If they do ever equalize, it's for a split second.

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I got a 9% raise back in July 2021, and I felt like I was ahead for maybe a month or two, but I'm behind already now. Will be interesting to see how inflation factors in for annual raises this year, since they are largely based on cost of living indexes.

PJ Diaz said:

I got a 9% raise back in July 2021, and I felt like I was ahead for maybe a month or two, but I'm behind already now.

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Pretty much the exact same here, though a few months later, feeling the same too.

PJ Diaz said:

Will be interesting to see how inflation factors in for annual raises this year, since they are largely based on cost of living indexes.

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We're still able to keep gas the same as pre-Biden prices by going to Costco, and groceries seem about the same. We pretty much only shop at Trader Joe's and Costco buying mostly the same things over and over, but as soon as we step outside of the gas/grocery routine is where we really see it.

I'd like you to comment on this perception in particular: It seems like it starts with little stuff and permeates. Smaller consumer goods manufacturing, larger consumer goods manufacturing, energy and healthcare industries, then it's starts fucking up stock markets and retirement(like right now), before it finally fucks up real estate(which is a little harder for us Californians to evaluate). Then you have to wait to find the true floor, but it always seems to snap back before you realize you were at the bottom, then everyone tries to hop on the profit train which accelerates the recovery.

mooray said:

I'd like you to comment on this perception in particular: It seems like it starts with little stuff and permeates. Smaller consumer goods manufacturing, larger consumer goods manufacturing, energy and healthcare industries, then it's starts fucking up stock markets and retirement(like right now), before it finally fucks up real estate(which is a little harder for us Californians to evaluate). Then you have to wait to find the true floor, but it always seems to snap back before you realize you were at the bottom, then everyone tries to hop on the profit train which accelerates the recovery.

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Seems about right. It's a constant game of push-me-pull-you. Ebb and flow. Everything is cyclical anyhow, from tides to politics, nothing remains constant. When you are on a high, prepare for a low in the future, and vice vs. Just like the line from Grateful Dead's "Uncle John's Band", "when life looks like easy street, there's danger at your door".

Who takes anything PJ says seriously?

Months of vaccine disinformation and flat out ridiculous statements, such as "I think I got Covid before we knew about it and so I'm immune" was the straw that broke the back of credibility. Not to mention his self centered whining and complaints.

Now, he's complaining he hasn't gotten a raise. He wasn't an essential worker who risked their health doing their job. PJ's industry puts on concerts and shows. It was hit hard by the pandemic. Yeah, prices are going up, which was completely expected. That doesn't mean PJ should get a raise when his industry is still pinned to the mat. Not only that but stage hands aren't exactly hard to replace. Essential workers actually are doing better than the current rate of inflation. Good for them. Let the benefits flow to the people who earned it.

PJ Diaz said:

I got a 9% raise back in July 2021, and I felt like I was ahead for maybe a month or two, but I'm behind already now. Will be interesting to see how inflation factors in for annual raises this year, since they are largely based on cost of living indexes.

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I was going to go into showing that the price increase in gas prices vs your salary bump of 9% (at 50k that would mean you are making about $4500 more (and gas at three dollars at the low in 2020 vs what you posted in your pick would mean that you are still ahead by about $3,400 because you would be paying about $1150 more in gas in a year if you use about the national average of gas), and then I was going to go into grocery prices to show how you are still ahead. But I don't know anything about gas prices out in Califonia, so I wanted to double check since I was going to go through all that work to show how the 'feels' of peoples' understanding of inflation is not usually reality.



But then I saw the same picture that you posted that makes it look like it is under Biden that those gas prices are, when the article with that picture is dated back in October 2019.



And unless you are buying premium gas you are still under $5. Am I missing something or are you just fully full of shit?

There is always some form of inflation in an economy based on capitalism but it is usually transitory & offset by growth/wage increases.
Now though the entire World's economy is being choked by the side effects of COVID, such as the closure of whole cities/factories in China further fucking with the Worlds economy.
The really fucked up thing is that it will take years, not months to recover from this shit.
No way out
We're fucked
(Oh, & Jesus fucking Christ ain't gonna save us/forget Biden))

Jimdamick said:

There is always some form of inflation in an economy based on capitalism but it is usually transitory & offset by growth/wage increases.

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PJ Diaz said:

View attachment 5074345 View attachment 5074346

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So, the purchasing power of the US dollar dropped from 1900 to 2020.
Has the quality of life and standard of living of the average citizen improved?
Are people living better, easier, more comfortable lives today than in 1900?
No Medicare back then or social security either and people left things like combs, razors, guns and kitchen chairs in their wills.

DIY-HP-LED said:

So, the purchasing power of the US dollar dropped from 1900 to 2020.
Has the quality of life and standard of living of the average citizen improved?
Are people living better, easier, more comfortable lives today than in 1900?
No Medicare back then or social security either and people left things like combs, razors, guns and kitchen chairs in their wills.

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It's debatable depending on what metrics you use to define "quality of life". Even if you look at only the past 50 years, the purchasing power of the dollar has dropped significantly.

PJ Diaz said:

It's debatable depending on what metrics you use to define "quality of life". Even if you look at only the past 50 years, the purchasing power of the dollar has dropped significantly.

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You live better than the King of England did in the 1937, you drive a better car and live in a better, though less fancy house, have a better diet, access to information and healthcare than he did. He was one of the richest men in the world at the time, yet you live better in many ways. The average working person can afford much more these days and kids seldom want their parents stuff, except for sentimental items, their houses are full already. Each spring people throw out a mountain of perfectly good things, my father's generation would have been appalled at the waste. Imagine our material abundance, if the 1% weren't screwing us so bad by using idiot republicans with non issues and tribalism to keep them in the sweet spot.

DIY-HP-LED said:

You live better than the King of England did in the 1937, you drive a better car and live in a better, though less fancy house, have a better diet, access to information and healthcare than he did. He was one of the richest men in the world at the time, yet you live better in many ways. The average working person can afford much more these days and kids seldom want their parents stuff, except for sentimental items, their houses are full already. Each spring people throw out a mountain of perfectly good things, my father's generation would have been appalled at the waste. Imagine our material abundance, if the 1% weren't screwing us so bad by using idiot republicans with non issues and tribalism to keep them in the sweet spot.

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Again, it depends on the metrics you use, and the optics you view through as well. Last I checked the king of england didn't use US dollars, so not sure where that has to do with anything. However back then you could buy 10 acres of land for around $300, and have a good clean life. No mass air pollution in the sky, or horrible processed foods infecting people's health.

It's a weird morning when you find yourself nodding along with pj, fully agree its what metrics you use and how you look at the issue. We live a better life due to technology, but that isn't really inflation related. I do view capitalism as being a great driver of innovation and the things mentioned, but again, inflation isn't really the same thing, although it is kind of related.

We keep getting better at making stuff, it gets cheaper or it advances in a tech sense. The ability of people to buy what they produce has declined.

You also have the idea of wealth vs money. Wealth is your home, land, tangible stuff that isn't disposable. Money and wages are just a way to measure what wealth your labor can buy and that has steadily decreased.

HGCC said:

It's a weird morning when you find yourself nodding along with pj, fully agree its what metrics you use and how you look at the issue. We live a better life due to technology, but that isn't really inflation related. I do view capitalism as being a great driver of innovation and the things mentioned, but again, inflation isn't really the same thing, although it is kind of related.

We keep getting better at making stuff, it gets cheaper or it advances in a tech sense. The ability of people to buy what they produce has declined.

You also have the idea of wealth vs money. Wealth is your home, land, tangible stuff that isn't disposable. Money and wages are just a way to measure what wealth your labor can buy and that has steadily decreased.

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It's not inflation that is the real issue, it is wealth inequality. We can buy much more today than we could in the past and it is a combination of technology, trade and cheap foreign labor, a TV made 100% in America would not be affordable. The point is, while there may be inflation and wealth inequality, the quality of life and standard of living of the average working person is constantly improving. We live comfortable lives and as such are mostly content with the status quo, it is when things become intolerable that revolutions happen.

So what there is inflation? Are we suffering, or do wages eventually adjust? I mean in normal circumstances, where a big part of the population doesn't screw themselves because the brown folks might get some. Where unions haven't been destroyed by bigotry, because again, brown folks might get some. Where half the population has gone so tribal they screw themselves and everybody else and support tax cuts for the super wealthy who are rolling in cash. The fact remains that 1% of the population in America control well over 80% of the national wealth and thus income, cause stocks pay dividends that a typical billionaire reinvests. Even so, the average person lives in material abundance and throws out tons of food and perfectly good items every year.

Hmm, one metric for 'quality of life' might be actually living no?



Interesting going off of Peej's bullshit 'value of dollar' (which is some nominal bullshit metric) coincides with the increase of the American lifespan by decades.




I mean unless you are in a death cult and don't see longer lifespans as a good thing with respect to 'quality of life' I guess.

HGCC said:

It's a weird morning when you find yourself nodding along with pj, fully agree its what metrics you use and how you look at the issue. We live a better life due to technology, but that isn't really inflation related. I do view capitalism as being a great driver of innovation and the things mentioned, but again, inflation isn't really the same thing, although it is kind of related.

We keep getting better at making stuff, it gets cheaper or it advances in a tech sense. The ability of people to buy what they produce has declined.

You also have the idea of wealth vs money. Wealth is your home, land, tangible stuff that isn't disposable. Money and wages are just a way to measure what wealth your labor can buy and that has steadily decreased.

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lol sorry started laughing when you said 'nodding along with Pj'.

If you are interested, one thing I remember doing was doing things like compare how much of a average income would spend on stuff like a apple, and compare that with the percent of a average income to buy one today. It ended up being about the same (I did this back in 2010, so may be slightly different now, but I really doubt it).

Inflation is a boogy man that is used by rich people who don't want to pay taxes or increase the wages of the peasant class who make them rich to keep the masses in line when they start to close down the economy that they were benefitting from.

hanimmal said:

Hmm, one metric for 'quality of life' might be actually living no?

View attachment 5074506

Interesting going off of Peej's bullshit 'value of dollar' (which is some nominal bullshit metric) coincides with the increase of the American lifespan by decades.


View attachment 5074507

I mean unless you are in a death cult and don't see longer lifespans as a good thing with respect to 'quality of life' I guess.

lol sorry started laughing when you said 'nodding along with Pj'.

If you are interested, one thing I remember doing was doing things like compare how much of a average income would spend on stuff like a apple, and compare that with the percent of a average income to buy one today. It ended up being about the same (I did this back in 2010, so may be slightly different now, but I really doubt it).

Inflation is a boogy man that is used by rich people who don't want to pay taxes or increase the wages of the peasant class who make them rich to keep the masses in line when they start to close down the economy that they were benefitting from.

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Very much agree with the last paragraph and also the inequality aspect. It's a complex topic and it does depend on what your measurement and perspective is.

I think its hard to define inflation and separate it from inequality, they both get intermingled depending on how you look at it. I don't care about the wealthy people that can buy fewer car elevators because their pile of money isn't growing as fast as costs rise. That does impact people on a fixed income in the exact same way, and I think of that as a form of inequality, or at least a driver.

If you are working for a wage, I think you should have a different view. Your wage has the ability to grow in response to inflation. 3% cost of living raises seem common. It shouldn't matter in theory, and I think those rich folks with a pile of money have a vested interst in pushing anti-inflation stuff on workers. Wages haven't kept up though, so inflation has led to increased inequality.

What if you used housing or land instead of apples? Apple prices are a classic metric that show up in textbooks but never made much sense to me. Also...depends if it's a fancy apple from whole foods or the 5lb bag from the regular grocery.

Ps. It's fine to laugh, I encourage it.

HGCC said:

Very much agree with the last paragraph and also the inequality aspect. It's a complex topic and it does depend on what your measurement and perspective is.

I think its hard to define inflation and separate it from inequality, they both get intermingled depending on how you look at it. I don't care about the wealthy people that can buy fewer car elevators because their pile of money isn't growing as fast as costs rise. That does impact people on a fixed income in the exact same way, and I think of that as a form of inequality, or at least a driver.

If you are working for a wage, I think you should have a different view. Your wage has the ability to grow in response to inflation. 3% cost of living raises seem common. It shouldn't matter in theory, and I think those rich folks with a pile of money have a vested interst in pushing anti-inflation stuff on workers. Wages haven't kept up though, so inflation has led to increased inequality.

What if you used housing or land instead of apples? Apple prices are a classic metric that show up in textbooks but never made much sense to me. Also...depends if it's a fancy apple from whole foods or the 5lb bag from the regular grocery.

Ps. It's fine to laugh, I encourage it.

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I disagree about just saying 'wages haven't kept up'. Even on a fixed income there was a 5.9% increase in SS (if I am remembering right). Just because inflation is higher doesn't mean that the entirety of what they are spending their money on has increased. This is the example of what I did in response to Peej's post that I am not sure if you looked at.

I didn't read about the apple comparison in a textbook, so not sure if you meant that as a dig or not, I was comparing many different things from historical prices and comparing them with income levels back around 2010. Comparing land prices would be interesting because of things like just taking land and kicking the other people off of it.

Also everyone who wants to sell the 'bad' about inflation go to the people who are on a fixed income, which is something that people need to deal with, but also should equally spend the time considering the people who are paying off homes, school loans, cars, increasing their savings, etc. That is the people that the rich people's trolls want to stop from benefitting from inflation because they are not getting the same return on all that family money that they live off of.

Also was thinking about the land comparison, it would be interesting too because of things like access to roads post ww2 being far more than previously. Then also things like electricity, availability of modern plumbing on that land etc. There is so many differences to consider with that. But it would be fun thing to look at.

hanimmal said:

I didn't read about the apple comparison in a textbook, so not sure if you meant that as a dig or not, I was comparing many different things from historical prices and comparing them with income levels back around 2010. Comparing land prices would be interesting because of things like just taking land and kicking the other people off of it.

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No man, I wouldn't take a dig at ya, appreciate disagreeing/discussing a topic with someone that's smart and has an idea of what they are talking about. Normally it's with people that think you should drink pee or whatever.

Friggin apple, the company, thwarted finding what I was talking about, but it is one that always seemed to get used. The discussion was around the CPI, that was just the component that was often cited.

This looked interesting, came across it looking for apples.

hanimmal said:

Also was thinking about the land comparison, it would be interesting too because of things like access to roads post ww2 being far more than previously. Then also things like electricity, availability of modern plumbing on that land etc. There is so many differences to consider with that. But it would be fun thing to look at.

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Same with food costs and factory/industrial farming, its way cheaper to produce things now.

Maybe the long time lines aren't that helpful when looking at it. 100 years is a long time. It's like when fucker Carlson talked about how well off the poor are because they have refrigerators...what the hell are they comparing that against.