Help. Want to oxidize THC to CBN

cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
OPfarmer said:
More questions!

Does CBD oxidize at the same rate as THC.?

Thought being one has the typical 1:1 or
1 THC: 2 CBD strain.

Could one oxidize it and convert the THC to CBN while retaining the CBD?

That be a nice med. CBD and CBN
Click to expand...
I don't think CBD has an easy oxidation route.

I've converted THC to CBN using ceric sulfate. But this was 20 years ago when I had a lab at my fingertips. The conversion was clean "spot to spot" by thin-layer chromatography. I don't remember or have notes of how I did it however.

A quick Google search does not pull up a prep, and I don't have access to CAS Online or the other good premium databases.
 
OPfarmer

OPfarmer

Well-Known Member
The start of my THC buds and trimmings conversion to CBN downers.
Been letting the buds sit open in the sun, then I decarbed for a couple days in dry crock pot 175-250f. Buds medium to dark toasty brown.

Next soaking in ethanol all Frozen in freezer for 24 hours

Then extract

Next put extraction on glass plate In sun to oxidize further.

Here is run 1 of some dozens?

IMG_20190122_132157687~2.jpg

I will reconstitute it with some ethonol once oxidized, then maybe make some "cherry cough syrup" for night night, or maybe Cinnamon "Altoids", to suck on before bed.
 
OPfarmer

OPfarmer

Well-Known Member
Update: project CBN
So all that amber tricome, pot I let sit in the sun for a few weeks then decarbed in a dry crock pot for 24 hours at 190f and 6 hours at 250f. (Dark brown). I extracted with ethonol into a tar. Let that tar on a glass plate in the, non existent sun for a week. (Don't think I got much additional UV oxidization) If I would leave it sit longer it would be a shatter that melts back into tar at body temp.

So I dissolved a gram into 15ml ethanol, then made a batch of gummies.

Roughly 30 mg per gummy. (Same kind of dose as CBD gummies)

Not Stony at all, get the almost nauseous, sedated feeling like an hour or two after smoking a strong Indica.

60 mg is potent, 90 scary, like too much moriphine for two long. (Not the jerking awake every few hours but the sensation that you will stop breathing unless you concentrate on it.)

Slight THC buzz, but with that 100 some mg of CBD in my system, I am not a good judge of that.

It seems to be CBN, and meeting the description of what I was after. With 60mg I would fear taking lorazepam on top of it.

However, it's not as refined a sensation as Valium/Diazepam/lorazepam family.

More opate morophine like, but not as strong euphoria sensation.

For me, steps closer to a 1 to 1 direct replacement for benzos and opates.

One day I would like to send a sample to a lab. See what CBN value is actually in it.
IMG_20190205_081734867~2.jpg
 
R Burns

R Burns

Well-Known Member
Should just be able to flower an extra couple wks to achieve this. You would not be looking for 10 to 20% amber, that would be a standard harvest. You want 70 to 80+%. Be sure that you are checking trichs on buds, not leaves. The leaves degrade much quicker.
 
mustbetribbin

mustbetribbin

Well-Known Member
What I would recommend is start with a very high thc strain if your able.

Make homemade qwiso extract with your Cannabis,( I usually wait 48 hrs before I strain mine) get a glass Pyrex baking pan and pour the solution into the glass pan, and allow for the complete evaporation process to occur before you do anything else, this layer of qwiso must be shallow with this method you will be using light to convert the THC into CBN.

Next build a somewhat sealed metal chamber or find something that will have the least fire hazard as you will be using a UV light bulb to convert and must be able to handle long periods of heat inside the chamber, ect..

Lastly find a intense UV transmitting light that can be mounted directly over top of your thin layer of qwiso wax and add them both to the inside of the conversion chamber, this layer of wax must be thin so that the UV light can penetrate through to each thc molecule to the bottom, to reduce waste ect.

A regular reptile light may suffice, I was actually looking at the 23 watt florescent version to make my own setup soon, but other brighter lights may produce results quicker, my guesstimate on how long this process could take is anywhere from a 48 hours to a week to complete the conversion.

I will have my own proof as to whether this works on my own soon, I just wanted to offer help where I could on this subject.

Side note, a heating mat or gentle heat source below the glass tray/pan may hasten the process, but I think we should follow what nature is indicating to be the best means of conversion, and that is through use of UV light.
 
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Warpedpassage

Warpedpassage

Well-Known Member
mustbetribbin said:
What I would recommend is start with a very high thc strain if your able.

Make homemade qwiso extract with your Cannabis,( I usually wait 48 hrs before I strain mine) get a glass Pyrex baking pan and pour the solution into the glass pan, and allow for the complete evaporation process to occur before you do anything else, this layer of qwiso must be shallow with this method you will be using light to convert the THC into CBN.

Next build a somewhat sealed metal chamber or find something that will have the least fire hazard as you will be using a UV light bulb to convert and must be able to handle long periods of heat inside the chamber, ect..

Lastly find a intense UV transmitting light that can be mounted directly over top of your thin layer of qwiso wax and add them both to the inside of the conversion chamber, this layer of wax must be thin so that the UV light can penetrate through to each thc molecule to the bottom, to reduce waste ect.

A regular reptile light may suffice, I was actually looking at the 23 watt florescent version to make my own setup soon, but other brighter lights may produce results quicker, my guesstimate on how long this process could take is anywhere from a 48 hours to a week to complete the conversion.

I will have my own proof as to whether this works on my own soon, I just wanted to offer help where I could on this subject.

Side note, a heating mat or gentle heat source below the glass tray/pan may hasten the process, but I think we should follow what nature is indicating to be the best means of conversion, and that is through use of UV light.
Click to expand...
That sounds great!! I have also been thinking about pulling out the uv lamp for this objective. Please come and let us know how it goes.
 
OPfarmer

OPfarmer

Well-Known Member
mustbetribbin said:
Next build a somewhat sealed metal chamber or find something that will have the least fire hazard as you will be using a UV light bulb to convert and must be able to handle long periods of heat inside the chamber, ect..
Click to expand...
Why a somewhat sealed container?

Doesn't oxidization require O2?

Also
What about decarb? Are you smoking the results not eating them?
 
mustbetribbin

mustbetribbin

Well-Known Member
OPfarmer said:
Why a somewhat sealed container?

Doesn't oxidization require O2?

Also
What about decarb? Are you smoking the results not eating them?
Click to expand...
Sealed just to contain the UV light mainly, You would not want lumens escaping elsewhere and dust collecting over top of your medicine would you?

Once the qwiso is converted to CBN rich wax, take a clean razor blade and collect the resin/wax as usual.

Use the wax in any vaporizer that is compatible with wax, or take dabs with it, I'm sure there's other ways, decarb may not be necessary once the conversion takes place, but if you planning on making edibles maybe decarb-ing will be necessary.

I'm new to this idea also, but I am positive there is a way to make it work, and it can be done inexpensively if a simple reptile UV light wil get the job done, just needs a little experimentation / r&d.
 
OPfarmer

OPfarmer

Well-Known Member
It is my understanding decarb for consumables is indeed the case.
THC-A will oxidize to CBN-A
So decarb is needed to ditch the "A" for consumables.

(Read that long decarb can be used in the oxidization of THC)
 
febisfebi

febisfebi

Well-Known Member
OPfarmer said:
It is my understanding decarb for consumables is indeed the case.
THC-A will oxidize to CBN-A
So decarb is needed to ditch the "A" for consumables.

(Read that long decarb can be used in the oxidization of THC)
Click to expand...
It looks like THC-A Oxidized directly will become CBN-A
Whereas it looks like if the THC-A is first decarbed to THC, the resulting conversion with UV or whatever you use will be CBN ready for consumables.
A little confusing, but it looks like there are a couple routes for conversion.
 

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febisfebi

febisfebi

Well-Known Member
OPfarmer said:
Wonder if one is more effective than the other?

I did decarb first then THC to CBN.
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I would guess it is likely that one might work better than the other at least one might be preferred. Sounds like yours was fairly successful, right? But then again can't really say for sure without trying both, and it is really difficult to say without lab equipment and testing, and actually knowing which conversion rate might have happened in your double decarb method. Or if it were both.

You did mention that you noticed a slight THC buzz right? I have to wonder if the other route was taken (THCA - CBNA) might give you more what you are looking for as the THCA would never have the chance to become THC, and therefore the undesirable trait in your case. The only question then would be what sort of decarb is best for CBNA to become CBN. And then of course the same for converting THCA to CBNA without accidentally making some unwanted THC out of some of the THCA.

You did say that was batch one of many? All I can suggest is to keep detailed notes on each batch of exactly what you did, and the results. Hopefully at some point someone can get one of these conversions tested either with TLC or a $60+ HPLC test. TLC seems to be limited in its the detection and differentiation between the different acids. Then again HPLC analysys sheets rarely show the ratio of acids to active cannabinoids other than THC and CBD. Might need a special request with the lab doing the HPLC in order to get the extra detail on these secondary CBN/CBNA compounds.

@cannabineer Do you remember at all which conversion route you were doing in the lab? Did THCA and/or CBNA come into the picture, or was it a straight THC-CBN conversion?
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
febisfebi said:
I would guess it is likely that one might work better than the other at least one might be preferred. Sounds like yours was fairly successful, right? But then again can't really say for sure without trying both, and it is really difficult to say without lab equipment and testing, and actually knowing which conversion rate might have happened in your double decarb method. Or if it were both.

You did mention that you noticed a slight THC buzz right? I have to wonder if the other route was taken (THCA - CBNA) might give you more what you are looking for as the THCA would never have the chance to become THC, and therefore the undesirable trait in your case. The only question then would be what sort of decarb is best for CBNA to become CBN. And then of course the same for converting THCA to CBNA without accidentally making some unwanted THC out of some of the THCA.

You did say that was batch one of many? All I can suggest is to keep detailed notes on each batch of exactly what you did, and the results. Hopefully at some point someone can get one of these conversions tested either with TLC or a $60+ HPLC test. TLC seems to be limited in its the detection and differentiation between the different acids. Then again HPLC analysys sheets rarely show the ratio of acids to active cannabinoids other than THC and CBD. Might need a special request with the lab doing the HPLC in order to get the extra detail on these secondary CBN/CBNA compounds.

@cannabineer Do you remember at all which conversion route you were doing in the lab? Did THCA and/or CBNA come into the picture, or was it a straight THC-CBN conversion?
Click to expand...
I started with THC. I never attempted THCA.
 
Thundercat

Thundercat

Well-Known Member
I wish I had lab test access. I really think starting with non decarbed material would give you a quality THCa extract. Then doing a uv exposure while the extract is still suspended in the alcohol solution should cause the conversion from THCa-cbna. At which point decarbing just the finished extract after evaping off the alcohol should convert to Cbn I think. I don't think it needs to be a super complicated process, but I don't have the lab experience to make this anything other then an opinion/hypothesis.
 
OPfarmer

OPfarmer

Well-Known Member
Next batch will be a while, but agree extract before decarb, and before UV.

If some money falls from the sky I will send a sample to the lab, for the sake of science.

Till then I will continue to be the lab rat.

Yes a slight THC buzz with roughly 30mg of extract ingested via gummies. Yes,
Some of that hard to describe achey-sick- tired couch lock feeling of a late stage Indica buzz, But not much! The anti anxiety sensation is much more "clean" than post stoned relaxed....
Not as much dumb tired as lorazepam. The effect is strange, a falling sensation, with focused breathing like with opates.

Just need to reduce that THC buzz a little more.

Thanks, and keep the suggestion coming.!

For me so far this CBN experiment might be alot closer to the medicine I need, than CBD is!

I suspect, in a few years isolated CBN may be as big as CBD.??

Either way, what a magical plant. So much diverse medicine.

Peace..

.
 
febisfebi

febisfebi

Well-Known Member
yeah cbd has a very diverse pallate of medicinal uses but I think for a lot of us CBN may be more directly appropriate. luckily we have an a relatively easy conversion route from something already widely available, but for those looking to ditch the THC that becomes difficult. In the near future we should start seeing CBN extracts, and if its biologically possible someone will breed a strain that it CBN rich, with low thc the likes of hemp!
 
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