Jacks (JR Peters) nutrients

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gfpeezy

Member
what an outstanding trove of information. real nuggets of gold im4satori. thanks for asking great questions Skybound... for a master to appear there must be a student.

i am not using Yara Calnit (15n/19ca) but rather a tetrahydrate form that comes out to about 11% nitrogen and 23% calcium. i'm worried it's both too much calcium and not enough nitrogen.

my question is... could i boost the Nitrogen content by using Magnesium Nitrate? i would use Hydrobuddy to get near the ideal range of Nitrogen and could also lower the Ca ppms this way. then i'd also lower the Magnesium Sulfate amount to fit in line with the increased Mg from the Magnesium Nitrate.

would this work or is there a better way to boost Nitrogen?
 
im4satori

im4satori

Well-Known Member
gfpeezy said:
what an outstanding trove of information. real nuggets of gold im4satori. thanks for asking great questions Skybound... for a master to appear there must be a student.

i am not using Yara Calnit (15n/19ca) but rather a tetrahydrate form that comes out to about 11% nitrogen and 23% calcium. i'm worried it's both too much calcium and not enough nitrogen.

my question is... could i boost the Nitrogen content by using Magnesium Nitrate? i would use Hydrobuddy to get near the ideal range of Nitrogen and could also lower the Ca ppms this way. then i'd also lower the Magnesium Sulfate amount to fit in line with the increased Mg from the Magnesium Nitrate.

would this work or is there a better way to boost Nitrogen?
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yes

you could also look at how potassium nitrate works for your ratios... but based on what you've described magnesium nitrate sounds like the right choice
 
G

gfpeezy

Member
im4satori said:
yes

you could also look at how potassium nitrate works for your ratios... but based on what you've described magnesium nitrate sounds like the right choice
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Groovy, much appreciated sir. I'll try to run the numbers on Potassium Nitrate but I think Mg/N might be cheaper round these here parts.

Before I can get a hold of the MagNit, I'd like to boost my nitrogen using what is on hand... what would you say the upper limit of Calcium would be?

To get into the 110-120 veg range (i think it was you) recommended, my calcium would be around 143ppm. Would it be useful to increase magnesium to maintain the 2:1 Ca:Mg ratio?
 
G

gfpeezy

Member
nxsov180db said:
wow thats a lot. What nutes do you have on hand to use?
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I know it's too much but I have seen some other nutrient formulas that reach around that level so maybe it's okay for a few days until I get the Magnesium Nitrate. It's either the 11N/23Ca Calnit or more of the 5-11-26 feed. I have some kelp too which is about 1-0-0.2-2 but I don't think that will be much help.

I could just cook up a bowl of beans and sleep in my grow tent tonight. I hear farts are loaded with nitrogen.

 
Skybound420

Skybound420

Well-Known Member
I just got done crunching numbers in Hydro Buddy, when referencing off the values im4satori graciously shared, and inputting data for products I didn't even get yet, I think I found a perfect formula. Here's the results, plus the numbers I refernced.
Veg Ranges
N 110 - 120
P 30 - 40
K 120 - 130
Ca 80 - 90
Mg 40 - 50
Fe 1.3 - 2

Bloom Ranges
N 65 - 90
P 40 - 65
K 130 - 150
Ca 65 - 90
Mg 40 - 50
Fe 1.5 - 2

(PPM)
110-35-120 veg
90-45-130 early bloom
75-60-130 bloom
65-65-130 late bloom (lucas formula)

(example)
veg - 110-35-120 = 265
early bloom - 90--45-130 = 265
late bloom - 75--60-130 = 265
Click to expand...
Ideal Mix.JPG
 
im4satori

im4satori

Well-Known Member
Skybound420 said:
Here's a great ON TOPIC thread I found. I'm still slowly reading through the opening post as the content is very plentiful.

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/proper-ratio-of-n-p-k-for-cannabis-etc.20871/
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this info is more useful for soil growers maybe

most or many of those amendments are soil amendments and not what youd want for hydro


stick with
magnesium nitrate
calcium nitrate
potassium nitrate

mono potassium phosphate
potassium sulfate
magnesium sulfate

optional
pek acid
calcium chloride (keeping Chloride under 20ppm)
potassium chloride (under 20 ppm chloride)

theres no ratio you cant get close to using these clean and soluble elements and trying to source other options likely unnecessary

except maybe in the case of calcium only because itll allow for N leeching in late bloom,

but honestly calcium chloride would likely fit the bill and get the job done just for leaching as well.. theyres also a product ive not seen in a while called calcium25 you could look into

http://www.calcium25.com/
 
Skybound420

Skybound420

Well-Known Member
As you know, I'm still building my knowledge on the topic and I need to source information where I can find it. Further reading also confirms that the lot of the content is geared for soils, but stilkl there are many other gems I found, like plants only being able to uptake ionic elements which helps me understand the ppm output vs. what my meter shows me. Also, it's helpful to again read how each element is used in growth.

What are your thoughts of Mono Ammonium Phosphate? I think it's 12-62-0 and aside from my complete lack of knowledge of how different components will interact, MAP works really well when trying to get a formula using your (high/low) values in Hydro Buddy. As best as I can tell, Jack's has too much K, and trying to bring up N and P to desired ratios relative to K, it seems a good source of N and P are needed. Another gem I gleaned from that thread is that N is easy to bring up with nitrates, but P seems to be the hardest to find and individually raise.
 
Skybound420

Skybound420

Well-Known Member
nxsov180db said:
You need hardly any P. Build your nute formula to the other desired numbers and see where the P lands, it'll likely be plenty.
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In my notes, it's been suggested that safe P ranges for Veg is 30-40ppm and bloom 40-65ppm. Would you disagree with these numbers? Also, do you have a preferred source for P other than MAP?
 
im4satori

im4satori

Well-Known Member
Skybound420 said:
In my notes, it's been suggested that safe P ranges for Veg is 30-40ppm and bloom 40-65ppm. Would you disagree with these numbers? Also, do you have a preferred source for P other than MAP?
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you could probably run bloom with your P in the 30-40 range

many formulas keep a very low P %

Phosphorus (and sulfur) is one element that has a very large range in whats acceptable

some people grow with it as high as the N in proportion which is the lucas formula and some grow with the P amount as low as what they feed in veg (jack alone is pretty low in P proportionately for bloom ) (advanced nutes formulas typically have a low P ratio) (GH nutes typically have a high P ratio)

so when your building your formula your more likely to let the sulfur or the phosphorus float and land where they land to a degree (with in reason)
as for ammonia .. you typically avoid it in large amounts

nitrate products will already likely contain ammonium levels and youd like to keep ammonium low... there is some literature speaking about a ratio of NO3 to NH4 but its been to long since Ive read it to speak on the topic and as I recall theres already enough NH4 built into the nitrate reagents to not need or want to need to look for more

these different products are rated for solubility and purity... youll want to stay with the items I listed as they are they bets options and theres not a real need to use anything else


the P numbers or ranges I provided are my standards of what I use and include Ph adjustment...but P is an element you can def expect to see a very wide range in bloom ratios

personally I run middle of the road
not as high as the "high P ratios" but not as low as the "low P ratios"

theres been a long history of debate over P and what they call the "high P myth"

some people believe P will create bud swell, others believe itll make theyre buds harder... some people believe more sulfur will add flavor and terpenes in late bloom

but in most of these cases youll see people trying to push the ratio to its limits or beyond in an attempt to force something out of the plant that's not already provided my mother nature

my personal point of view is to give the plant what it needs and get what the genetics provide

any time your thought process leans toward a point of view that tries to force something from the plant that's not built into its natural condition (at optimal potential) is almost always flawed
 
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Skybound420

Skybound420

Well-Known Member
Because Jack's Pro is so high in K, I was hoping to find a P supplement that doesn't have any K. As it is now, the various compositions I ran through Hbuddy, always returned near toxic levels of K (according to the high/low numbers I have). Being a total newb, I just want to get into a formula that literally puts me right in the middle of everything, or as close thereto as I can. FWIW, I only intended to use MAP from week 3-6, and only to elevate P. According to the MAP description, the N is NH4+ while the P is H2PO4-. IDK what either means, but I will as my studies progress. Also, for those weeks, my dose would only be 0.3 grams per gallon.

I'll try crunching the numbers again w/o using MAP in the equation and hopefully I can find a near ideal balance.
 
im4satori

im4satori

Well-Known Member
Skybound420 said:
Because Jack's Pro is so high in K, I was hoping to find a P supplement that doesn't have any K. As it is now, the various compositions I ran through Hbuddy, always returned near toxic levels of K (according to the high/low numbers I have). Being a total newb, I just want to get into a formula that literally puts me right in the middle of everything, or as close thereto as I can. FWIW, I only intended to use MAP from week 3-6, and only to elevate P. According to the MAP description, the N is NH4+ while the P is H2PO4-. IDK what either means, but I will as my studies progress. Also, for those weeks, my dose would only be 0.3 grams per gallon.

I'll try crunching the numbers again w/o using MAP in the equation and hopefully I can find a near ideal balance.
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im not sure whay your not able to get what your looking for from the reagents I listed

also
id not feel like if your K was slightly higher than what I suggested that somehow itll ruin your garden...


what ratio are you working so hard for? what numbers are you trying to get exactly? using the jacks
 
Skybound420

Skybound420

Well-Known Member
Veg Ranges
N 110 - 120
P 30 - 40
K 120 - 130
Ca 80 - 90
Mg 40 - 50
Fe 1.3 - 2

Bloom Ranges
N 65 - 90
P 40 - 65
K 130 - 150
Ca 65 - 90
Mg 40 - 50
Fe 1.5 - 2
 
Skybound420

Skybound420

Well-Known Member
Though I suspect these numbers to be mere suggestions, I'd still like to stay as near to them as is within my ability to have a really good starting point.

I think I need to retract some shit. I just stripped it down to Jack's A, CalNit, MKP and Epsom and played with the numbers and every result looked good enough, so IDK why I was under the impression that I needed P individually. In my defense, this Kush packs a mean punch and I'm a mild smoker. Still though, I do believe I had a good reason to form that thought, I'm just hard pressed to remember what my reason(s) were.
 
im4satori

im4satori

Well-Known Member
bloom

1.5 grams calnite
2 grams jacks
0.3 grams mkp

N 88
P43
K136

veg

1.6 calnite
2.25 jacks
0.5 magnite

N110
P29
K 128



you may or may not also add some Epsom I didn't factor in the magnesium

just a quick result with your numbers in range
 
chameleonchild

chameleonchild

Well-Known Member
Can someone point me In the right direction to learn which products from Jack's to buy and how to use? Been growing for 7 years now and would love to stop spending so much damn money! I cut out alot of additives. I grow in soil, I have done dwc and coco but I just love growing in soil say what you want but I like it
 
im4satori

im4satori

Well-Known Member
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