Good alternative for Pentane?

I've heard a lot of different things used, 151, rubbing alcohol, etc.
A long time ago we used butane. We'd take a 2" pvc pipe, cap off an end with a tiny hole drilled in it, fill the pipe with weed, cap off the other end with a tiny hole. Then we'd take 3-4 cans of those butane refills, turn them upside down and empty them into the pvc pipe. The pipe would then drip the oil and butane into a jar, and we'd let the jar sit to let the butane evaporate out.
It was called honey oil.
It had a 100% loss of the butane, and the impurities were left behind.

A closed loop still makes total sense, but pentane isn't cheap. Just curious to know what other people use.

Big Perm said:

I've heard a lot of different things used, 151, rubbing alcohol, etc.
A long time ago we used butane. We'd take a 2" pvc pipe, cap off an end with a tiny hole drilled in it, fill the pipe with weed, cap off the other end with a tiny hole. Then we'd take 3-4 cans of those butane refills, turn them upside down and empty them into the pvc pipe. The pipe would then drip the oil and butane into a jar, and we'd let the jar sit to let the butane evaporate out.
It was called honey oil.
It had a 100% loss of the butane, and the impurities were left behind.

A closed loop still makes total sense, but pentane isn't cheap. Just curious to know what other people use.

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We've extracted with propane, butane, pentane, hexane, and heptane. All do a good job, though the heavier alkanes are harder to subsequently purge residuals.

We've also used pentane, hexane, and heptane for refining extractions. In that application, pentane doesn't produce 2.5 diones, and is easier to remove than hexane and pentane.

Fadedawg said:

We've also used pentane, hexane, and heptane for refining extractions. In that application, pentane doesn't produce 2.5 diones, and is easier to remove than hexane and pentane.

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Which is easier to remove?

Big Perm said:

Which is easier to remove?

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Propane, Butane, Pentane, Hexane, Heptane, in that order.

Fadedawg said:

Propane, Butane, Pentane, Hexane, Heptane, in that order.

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Can you give a brief breakdown on how you go about acheiving a satisfactory purge on a pentane extraction? More to the point, do you feel a vacuum purge to be necessary or is heat sufficient? I've never done a solvent extraction, so I want to make sure I do this right the first time.

Thanks for any input.

Sorry to go off topic @Big Perm

socaljoe said:

Can you give a brief breakdown on how you go about acheiving a satisfactory purge on a pentane extraction? More to the point, do you feel a vacuum purge to be necessary or is heat sufficient? I've never done a solvent extraction, so I want to make sure I do this right the first time.

Thanks for any input.

Sorry to go off topic @Big Perm

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The more info the better.

I've decided to just go pentane. 95% recovery makes it worth it for me.

socaljoe said:

Can you give a brief breakdown on how you go about acheiving a satisfactory purge on a pentane extraction? More to the point, do you feel a vacuum purge to be necessary or is heat sufficient? I've never done a solvent extraction, so I want to make sure I do this right the first time.

Thanks for any input.

Sorry to go off topic @Big Perm

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I typically purge around 115F @ 10,000 microns/-29.5"Hg. However, Pentane has a high vapor pressure around 400 mm hg, a flash point around 14C/57F, and boils around 36C/97F, so is relatively easy to get rid of.

It is also a FDA Class 3 solvent and may be regarded as less toxic and of lower risk to human health. Class 3 includes no solvent known as a human health hazard at levels normally accepted in pharmaceuticals. However, there are no long-term toxicity or carcinogenicity studies for many of the solvents in Class 3. Available data indicate that they are less toxic in acute or short-term studies and negative in genotoxicity studies. It is considered that amounts of these residual solvents of 50 mg per day or less (corresponding to 5,000 ppm or 0.5 percent under Option 1) would be acceptable without justification. Higher amounts may also be acceptable provided they are realistic in relation to manufacturing capability and good manufacturing practice (GMP). See attached:

You can also smell and taste it far below the 5000 ppm maximum, so before vacuum purging, we used a shallow dish covered with a towel, sitting on a heat mat around 125F, until the bubbles stopped and it stopped smelling and tasting like gasoline.

In non dusty environments, we used a shallow dish outdoors and a blower to rapidly remove the bulk before resorting to the heat mat for a final purge.

N-butane. Cheap. You can get 95% return or more in a closed loop system. Def. vacuum oven necessary. I get my wax purged to 5 ppm residual solvent.

socaljoe said:

Can you give a brief breakdown on how you go about acheiving a satisfactory purge on a pentane extraction? More to the point, do you feel a vacuum purge to be necessary or is heat sufficient? I've never done a solvent extraction, so I want to make sure I do this right the first time.

Thanks for any input.

Sorry to go off topic @Big Perm

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You definately want to purge under vacuum. (If you want a low residual solvent ppm) They just raised the allowed residual solvent ppm% by 5,000% in CO and WA. Fucking outrage! The FDA claims that's safe? A recreational shop I talked to this summer was opening up their solvent based concentrates on the shelves in the back room, because all the shatter was auto-waxing. Many concentrates changing consistency from heat and a bit to much left over solvent. That made me so glad I make my own.

Big Perm said:

The more info the better.

I've decided to just go pentane. 95% recovery makes it worth it for me.

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did you end up DIYing that system?

meangreengrowinmachine said:

did you end up DIYing that system?

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I have not. I need to though. I'm about 11 weeks out from needing it.

Kid Kannabi5 said:

You definately want to purge under vacuum. (If you want a low residual solvent ppm) They just raised the allowed residual solvent ppm% by 5,000% in CO and WA. Fucking outrage! The FDA claims that's safe? A recreational shop I talked to this summer was opening up their solvent based concentrates on the shelves in the back room, because all the shatter was auto-waxing. Many concentrates changing consistency from heat and a bit to much left over solvent. That made me so glad I make my own.

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I had not heard that.
They raised the allowed limit? What is it?
Where I am it's only gotten lower and lower and finally hit zero recently.
It's not really set in stone but that's been the consumer demand for the most part.
Distillates are very popular now.

do they still use that air cond coolant stuff? What they had started out in OR, when I left, that was the new one, although I believe Skunk Pharm Research had a pretty good deal set up with lab grade equip.

Bodyne said:

do they still use that air cond coolant stuff?

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Freon?

gwpharms said:

I had not heard that.
They raised the allowed limit? What is it?
Where I am it's only gotten lower and lower and finally hit zero recently.
It's not really set in stone but that's been the consumer demand for the most part.
Distillates are very popular now.

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Well it is set in stone here. The concentrates have gotten shitty and cheap. You can walk into a rec. shop in WA and buy a budget gram of bho wax for $15. There are a few companies that hold to their MORAL standards and still vac their shit completely, but they can't afford to sell for as cheap as "Sammy Solvent" so the uninformed buy the 15$ poop. The distillates are what they are. Pure. So those are still what they are. I'm more talking about the dabable waxes and shatter sold in the little pucks. That's the type I make. Minus the 5000ppm residual solvent. Lol. Sorry, it's actually not funny it is pretty fucked up. Google it. It's in the news.

Kid Kannabi5 said:

Well it is set in stone here. The concentrates have gotten shitty and cheap. You can walk into a rec. shop in WA and buy a budget gram of bho wax for $15. There are a few companies that hold to their MORAL standards and still vac their shit completely, but they can't afford to sell for as cheap as "Sammy Solvent" so the uninformed buy the 15$ poop. The distillates are what they are. Pure. So those are still what they are. I'm more talking about the dabable waxes and shatter sold in the little pucks. That's the type I make. Minus the 5000ppm residual solvent. Lol. Sorry, it's actually not funny it is pretty fucked up. Google it. It's in the news.

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What's the process you use to get your pure waxes and shatter? If you do it yourself I'd really like to see your process.

Big Perm said:

What's the process you use to get your pure waxes and shatter? If you do it yourself I'd really like to see your process.

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I use 100% n-butane and open blow through a borosilicate column into borosilicate double boiler first with cold water. I also put the n-butane in a freezer b4 hand. Grow my own indoor dwc (have 5 strains right now. Sativas, hybrid 50-50, or indicas). Trim wet. Hang till dry, dry. Do a quick cure. Then a light chop/grind. I use a borosilicate glass column to open blast into double boiler with cold water. I dont use coffee filters. I use 150mm chemistry filters. Usually do a half pound at a time. Which equals between 30-35 grams of bho. Once all the visible liquid "tane" is vapped into the atmosphere (no I can't recover it using this method, but it is much more intimate and precise). Then I do a good scrape. Bho from glass to parchment paper circle. Now is where the process differs on if I want honeycomb or shatter. If I want "comb" i pile the oil up tall and center of parchment paper and put in my vacuum chamber. At room temp (no-heat) I start vacuum and inflate a "muffin" if you have a big enough chamber and let enough butane vap off you can go to full vac (-29.5 in. Hg) without muffin touching the sides. If not vac and hold b4 touches sides. Re inflate over again until reach full vacuum. Once we are at full vac leave pump on and set valve so you stay at full vac. Once "muffin" flattens out, turn off pump, and release vacuum. Remove parchment paper ball oil back into a tight ball in center of paper. Return to vacuum. I put a shallow pan of water on hot plate and place chamber in water. (If you have a vacuum oven, even better! To much $$$ for poor me.)Begin to heat. If flattens out again b4 it starts to wax, re ball/stack oil again. Stabilize heat when surface temp of oil reaches 120 degrees F. Never let go above 125F. The more heat the more terpenes and flavonoids are lost. Will start to wax in an hour or two. Maintain 120F until slab is honeycomb and no longer reacting at all. That's honeycomb. For shatter (is always going to have the most residual solvent) just scrape oil onto center of parchment paper, place in vac. -29.5 in. Hg. Set temp between 91-95 degrees F. Ok to let spread thin. Vacuum until reaction slows to stop. Might have to vac shatter for days to purge fully. If you want oil/sap, do like ur making shatter but crank temp to 155-160 under full vac. Until no more reaction. Won't take near as long, but say good bye to your terpene profile. The only thing to make sap for is cooking... So you can easily mix into a recipe or a tincture (decarboxylated too). Also if you want to fill vape cartridges. Then you have to "winterize" (to remove lipids) and add terpene profile back in. I sometimes "winterize" my shatter also. Not as flavorful but leaves no residue. Customers choice. I take orders. WA residents only. Legal Beagle! Lol

Kid Kannabi5 said:

Well it is set in stone here. The concentrates have gotten shitty and cheap. You can walk into a rec. shop in WA and buy a budget gram of bho wax for $15. There are a few companies that hold to their MORAL standards and still vac their shit completely, but they can't afford to sell for as cheap as "Sammy Solvent" so the uninformed buy the 15$ poop. The distillates are what they are. Pure. So those are still what they are. I'm more talking about the dabable waxes and shatter sold in the little pucks. That's the type I make. Minus the 5000ppm residual solvent. Lol. Sorry, it's actually not funny it is pretty fucked up. Google it. It's in the news.

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That is redicuolous. I heard something about it a couple years ago but I didn't really think it was real.
The wax and brown shatter fell out of favor here about 5 years ago or more and are completely unacceptable now. One would be ostracized for trying to sell it. Also people no longer accept "I vacuum purge for 76 hours so my stuff is all good" if anything that indicates whomever said that has NOOO idea what they are doing. People shopping in a dispensary demand test results.
I dont know how we ended up at 0ppm, 500ppm for most solvents is what the state allows. But the people that gained the knowledge to purge to 0ppm and do it in less than a day did start to demand a higher wholesale price. It dosen't cost them any more to produce. If anything they are several times more efficient and cost effective than those who dont know what they are doing.
Some places if you ask, they have an envelope hidden under the counter with the "unstable shatter" available by request for the turd dabbers. It sells for $15 a gram. Even edible rso is expected to be 0 ppm now but imo a few hundred ppm ethanol in your eddible is a good thing. But the puritans cant have alcohol touch their lips. Have to be halal
Diamonds in terp sauce have been taken off the shelf here because it's a new thing and the state has to make a new list of regulations for that. Nobody here has figured out how to isolate the thca crystals from the mystery goo they swim in (centrifuge) so it was a real head scratcher for the regulators when they saw that on the shelf. They didn't know what it was or how it's made or where it was coming from

Big Perm said:

What's the process you use to get your pure waxes and shatter? If you do it yourself I'd really like to see your process.

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I wish I could figure out how to share vid and pics from my phone. I'm so stupid when it comes to computers.

gwpharms said:

That is redicuolous. I heard something about it a couple years ago but I didn't really think it was real.
The wax and brown shatter fell out of favor here about 5 years ago or more and are completely unacceptable now. One would be ostracized for trying to sell it. Also people no longer accept "I vacuum purge for 76 hours so my stuff is all good" if anything that indicates whomever said that has NOOO idea what they are doing. People shopping in a dispensary demand test results.
I dont know how we ended up at 0ppm, 500ppm for most solvents is what the state allows. But the people that gained the knowledge to purge to 0ppm and do it in less than a day did start to demand a higher wholesale price. It dosen't cost them any more to produce. If anything they are several times more efficient and cost effective than those who dont know what they are doing.
Some places if you ask, they have an envelope hidden under the counter with the "unstable shatter" available by request for the turd dabbers. It sells for $15 a gram. Even edible rso is expected to be 0 ppm now but imo a few hundred ppm ethanol in your eddible is a good thing. But the puritans cant have alcohol touch their lips. Have to be halal
Diamonds in terp sauce have been taken off the shelf here because it's a new thing and the state has to make a new list of regulations for that. Nobody here has figured out how to isolate the thca crystals from the mystery goo they swim in (centrifuge) so it was a real head scratcher for the regulators when they saw that on the shelf. They didn't know what it was or how it's made or where it was coming from

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The low purge heat required to make shatter stable won't allow you to get 0 ppm unless it is a solventless extraction. Wax, crumble, and distillate sure. Shatter will have something. They don't put solvent numbers on test labels in WA. It just won't pass if it's above. Labels only list cannabinoid they are even eliminating the harvest date stamp. Wtf? WA has by far the most inexpensive recreational market also a better variety than other rec. Legal states according to High Times. Which really sucks for mom an pop growers that have to sell so cheap it doesn't cover their grow expenses. When WA legalized cannabis recreationally the craigslist/offer-up type websites where full of free grow equipment everyone gave up. Those who didn't are trafficking out of state or growing for personal.