Florida is set to arm teachers

Bad Karma said:

When I was a kid, the teachers couldn't even stop students from stealing the answer keys to the tests. So what's going to stop a student from stealing teachers gun and causing a school shooting? Putting guns in schools will only escalate the problem.

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Fogdog said:

You lost me when you started talking about video games. That's far from settled, in fact there are plenty of studies that demonstrate people aren't influenced one bit by video games. A person with psychosis would be a person with psychosis regardless of video games.

If your point is that people with psychosis will do the dirty deeds even if guns with massive fire power are unavailable to them, then facts again prove you are wrong. Countries with gun control laws have unstable people too and you don't see anywhere near the same number of mass killings by a different means that the US experiences with guns.

Also, the US dominates in other country's film entertainment markets and we don't see the same levels of violence we have here. There is something off in the US that makes more people commit violent acts. I'd like to see more work done to study this but our Republican Congress has made it virtually impossible for health agencies to study this phenomenon if the study includes gun violence, which makes up about 60% of the staggering rate of homicides in the US. Again the anti-science, pro gun Republican party is stifling intelligent positive action to reduce violence.

Gun control laws work. They don't prevent everything but they work as seen by reductions in harm overall. Arming teachers is dumb but not for the reason you give. Arming teachers just means more injuries and death by guns. It does mean more guns on the street, so NRA and gun industry wins.

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Amazon Blaze said:

Sorry I lost you, I will try and explain it easier for you, people who play video games and watch violent films become desensitized to violence, they don't become homicidal maniacs just bye using these things for entertainment. What happens when you immerse yourself in a computer game, your unconscious mind accepts it for a reality the more you do it. It lowers your emotional and psychological reaction to it in real life, in general. Otherwise training people for the military services, police, fire brigade would not work, they would go into shock, some do even with the training. We desensitize our selves all the time its a natural adaption, a coping mechanism. I am surprised no one has commented on my avatar, you probably didn't even notice it.

"Studies show people who play video games are not influenced one bit bye video games"

Some studies might some studies might not. If you believe the studies on cannabis by the pharmaceutical industry and the FDA you would believe there was no medical value to Cannabis. Are these studies of average people who play video games or borderline psychotics, full blown psychotics, manic depressives, sociopaths, paranoid schizophrenics who play video games?

Being psychotic does not mean you may be violent, it means you have a different version of personal reality to the majority of people on this planet. My mother had dementia which is a form of Psychosis, she never wanted to kill anyone, she did how ever want to get a gun for protection, after watching an animal program on the TV about lions in Africa, and after watching another program about France thanked me profusely for taking her there, for a trip that day. One can easily be turned from a non violent psychotic to a violent one. You can even get rational people to commit murder voluntarily in a very short space of time, with the right direct and indirect suggestions. Its how hypnosis works, its just suggestion, either from and external or internal source.

If you have netflix see if you can find Derren Browns "The Push". He did a social experiment, where he gets 4 random people to commit murder within 12 hours.

You obviously missed my first post, on page one. which I think explains my point of view, but I will share it with you again.

People should have to attend safety courses and prove they are competent to have a gun, have back ground checks that allow medical records to be evaluated, and wait a month minimum to get a license, before they can even buy a gun. You need to have lessons and pass a test, to prove you can drive a car, why not a gun which is just as dangerous.

A person wishing to wreak havoc regardless of their psychological/emotional state, and plans his/her attack, rather than being spontaneous, will try and find the most destructive thing to hand to accomplish that task, which is why these types of weapons need removing, and stronger laws put in place.

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Amazon Blaze said:

Sorry I lost you, I will try and explain it easier for you, people who play video games and watch violent films become desensitized to violence, they don't become homicidal maniacs just bye using these things for entertainment. What happens when you immerse yourself in a computer game, your unconscious mind accepts it for a reality the more you do it. It lowers your emotional and psychological reaction to it in real life, in general. Otherwise training people for the military services, police, fire brigade would not work, they would go into shock, some do even with the training. We desensitize our selves all the time its a natural adaption, a coping mechanism. I am surprised no one has commented on my avatar, you probably didn't even notice it.

"Studies show people who play video games are not influenced one bit bye video games"

Some studies might some studies might not. If you believe the studies on cannabis by the pharmaceutical industry and the FDA you would believe there was no medical value to Cannabis. Are these studies of average people who play video games or borderline psychotics, full blown psychotics, manic depressives, sociopaths, paranoid schizophrenics who play video games?

Being psychotic does not mean you may be violent, it means you have a different version of personal reality to the majority of people on this planet. My mother had dementia which is a form of Psychosis, she never wanted to kill anyone, she did how ever want to get a gun for protection, after watching an animal program on the TV about lions in Africa, and after watching another program about France thanked me profusely for taking her there, for a trip that day. One can easily be turned from a non violent psychotic to a violent one. You can even get rational people to commit murder voluntarily in a very short space of time, with the right direct and indirect suggestions. Its how hypnosis works, its just suggestion, either from and external or internal source.

If you have netflix see if you can find Derren Browns "The Push". He did a social experiment, where he gets 4 random people to commit murder within 12 hours.

You obviously missed my first post, on page one. which I think explains my point of view, but I will share it with you again.

People should have to attend safety courses and prove they are competent to have a gun, have back ground checks that allow medical records to be evaluated, and wait a month minimum to get a license, before they can even buy a gun. You need to have lessons and pass a test, to prove you can drive a car, why not a gun which is just as dangerous.

A person wishing to wreak havoc regardless of their psychological/emotional state, and plans his/her attack, rather than being spontaneous, will try and find the most destructive thing to hand to accomplish that task, which is why these types of weapons need removing, and stronger laws put in place.

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Roger A. Shrubber said:

i haven't done a study, but it sure seems like movies and games are causal, and not symptomatic.
when i was a kid, the good guys won. and it was easy to tell who they were. they were the guys NOT killing people, NOT stealing things, NOT ignoring the law.
we didn't have games at all till i was 12 or 13, then the level of violence was shooting a poorly rendered tank from another tank, not watching brains explode out of the back of a head when i got a headshot in.
i'm not going to lay all fault at the feet of video games and movies, but i'm sure as fuck not saying they are blameless, either

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• No relationship between gun murder and video game playing.
• US is strongly different in homicide rate compared other countries with similar video game playing habits.

• murder by gun strongly related to (50% explained by) the number of guns per person in a country.

• having many guns available is a large factor in gun murder.
• People claiming video games is even part of the problem should fish elsewhere.

Roger A. Shrubber said:

i'm not saying there's a direct correlation, but that doesn't convince me in any way that letting children play ultra violent games is a good idea...

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Fogdog said:

Its a well known theory. Sorry but the analogy for military isn't very good. People who sign up or were drafted knew they were going to face deadly fire and train for real. What you say is not known to be wrong, just not known to be true. Video game playing doesn't have a good correlation to gun violence or else you'd be seeing something like a zombie horde come out on the street with each release of Call of Duty.

The problem with commonly accepted theories like this and the gateway drug theory for cannabis is that the relationship between the purported causal factor and the purported result has very poor correlation and small sample size. Teeeeensy number of mass shootings to millions of video game players and you claim there is a relationship. Uhhhh yeah, video game playing is a terrible predictor yet people harp on that instead of better predictors. Do you know what is a much better predictor for gun homicides and mass shooting also with better sample size? The number of guns owned per person.

One might also look to increased stress in our daily lives in the form of economic insecurity before waving one's hand over something with as bad a predictive value as video games.

I'm not saying video game playing might desensitize people to fantasy violence they may also see in the cinema. I'm just saying practically all of people who play video games or the millions more exposed to violence on TV and in movies are able discriminate between what is fantasy and what is real real. We have 10's of mass shooters in the US every year and you point to millions of video players. I guess some psychiatrists are just bad at statistics.

Myself, I'm not a video game player nor am I a fan of shoot'em ups, slasher movies or other blood and guts movies. For example, I actively avoided seeing even the trailer of Silence of the Lambs, not because I think it's a bad movie but I'm unwilling to allow those images in my head. You completely miss my reasoning and assumed bias. No more true was your belief that there is a reasonably good relationship between video games and mass shootings.

You didn't lose me because I didn't understand. What you just wrote was just plain bad science.

Guns are the problem, not video games.

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Amazon Blaze said:

As an ex psychotherapist, I would like to say that people with psychological problems dont way up problems like, which school has the best security, before they go on a killing spree, they dont operate like that. They want revenge or to unleash their anger over whatever they have become focused on as their reason, for justifying their intent. The film and computer gaming industry de sensitize the emotional aspects of killing and the hero is always justified in his actions, and never suffers consequences or sees the emotional impact of them at the end of the film. Depending of what psychosis a person is suffering from they may not even have that ability to to connect emotionally with another being. Trumps lack of empathy for anything other than his own personal experiences is typical of a narcissistic sociopath, he may not have a gun, but he has a button, and if he could, he would have pushed it already to take out North Korea's president with total disregard for anyone else who would die as collateral damage and feel justified for doing it just because he wants to. People who have mental illness dont think like the majority of people because they operate in a different reality, and the majority of people cant understand that, because they don't operate in that individuals reality. If you arm the teachers the psychotics will still do the same thing but maybe up the stakes and use a bigger weapon of destruction that they can get hold of.Why dont they blow the schools up with Semtex or a grenade launcher...because its expensive and illegal and you cant get them without a lot of paper work and hassle. They use the best that they can get for the money they have and the least amount of hassle it takes.

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Amazon Blaze said:

"I didn't lose you because you didn't understand." Are you sure that wasn't a Freudian slip? Because I don't think you do understand what I am saying, because you keep changing it about in your mind, to make an argument that is not there.

So I will say it again and emphasize the points you need to understand. People who play video games and watch violent films become DESENSITIZED to violence and guns. (to make indifferent, unaware, or the like, in feeling)
They DO NOT BECOME PSYCOPATHS.

"Sorry but the analogy for military isn't very good"

Its not an analogy, its fact.
http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2015/01/better-simulation-could-save-military-millions/104172/

"Video game playing doesn't have a good correlation to gun violence or else you'd be seeing something like a zombie horde come out on the street with each release of Call of Duty."

I did not say this, I said , IT DESENSITIZES PEOPLE, it makes it more acceptable to people.

"The problem with commonly accepted theories like this and the gateway drug theory for cannabis is that the relationship between the purported causal factor and the purported result has very poor correlation and small sample size. Teeeeensy number of mass shootings to millions of video game players and you claim there is a relationship."

No I said, IT DESENSITIZES PEOPLE, its another straw on the camels back, that makes it generally more acceptable/normal for people to see.

"I'm not saying video game playing might desensitize people to fantasy violence they may also see in the cinema. I'm just saying practically all of people who play video games or the millions more exposed to violence on TV and in movies are able discriminate between what is fantasy and what is real real. We have 10's of mass shooters in the US every year and you point to millions of video players. I guess some psychiatrists are just bad at statistics."

You are making assumptions here, that everyone thinks like you and has the same personal reality as you. They don't, so you cant say what, they do or do not experience when watching films and playing video games.Practically all is not everyone, the ones who are not included in practically all, could POSSIBLY experience it as something more real than most and become more DESENSITIZED than most other people playing them.

"I guess some psychiatrists are just bad at statistics."

I take that you are referring to me, not accepting your "study" argument. I would agree, psychiatrists are bad a lot of things, not just statistics.

I was a psychoanalyst, not a psychiatrist, they are different.

"Myself, I'm not a video game player nor am I a fan of shoot'em ups, slasher movies or other blood and guts movies. For example, I actively avoided seeing even the trailer of Silence of the Lambs, not because I think it's a bad movie but I'm unwilling to allow those images in my head. You completely miss my reasoning and assumed bias. No more true was your belief that there is a reasonably good relationship between video games and mass shootings."

Good for you, you are actively trying to stay sensitive to violence, one less DESENSITIZED person to worry about.
You should try playing computer games, especially first person shooters, you might get a different perspective on my argument.

I used to play Battlefield 3, sometimes competitively for clans, before my injury stopped play. I think I have about 3,000 hours logged just on BF3. I was really good, usually placed in the top 5 players on any server I played on. I enjoyed the psychological aspects to it as well as looking into an opponents eyes before sticking a knife in his chest lol. The first time I played it, I lasted 20 minutes before I had to stop, because I was shaking so much from the adrenaline and anger at dying very quickly. Sitting in front of a 42 inch high def tv, 3 ft in front of me, with a high performance gaming rig and surround sound headphones on. It took me about 3 hours to calm down. I tried playing it again 2 weeks later, after the ptsd subsided, still got the same adrenaline rush and frustration with the weapons, I wasn't used to using. Every time I played I DESENSITIZED myself further to the sounds and emotions I was experiencing, so I could focus on my targets more easily. Yes I understand the difference between virtual and real reality, no it would not consciously make me a killer. At an unconscious level it was part of my personal reality and did DESENSITIZE me to violence at a conscious everyday level. My buddy who had never had a driving accident, hit 2 parked cars and put his car in a ditch 40 yds down the rd after leaving my house after playing Driver for 3 hours. He said he just got in the car and started to drive like he had just been doing on the computer game.

"Guns are the problem, not video games."

No, video games, like a lot of other things, are a part of the problem, why people in the USA, accept and make it easy to access guns. Guns are the biggest part of the problem.

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Amazon Blaze said:

"I didn't lose you because you didn't understand." Are you sure that wasn't a Freudian slip? Because I don't think you do understand what I am saying, because you keep changing it about in your mind, to make an argument that is not there.

So I will say it again and emphasize the points you need to understand. People who play video games and watch violent films become DESENSITIZED to violence and guns. (to make indifferent, unaware, or the like, in feeling)
They DO NOT BECOME PSYCOPATHS.

"Sorry but the analogy for military isn't very good"

Its not an analogy, its fact.
http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2015/01/better-simulation-could-save-military-millions/104172/

"Video game playing doesn't have a good correlation to gun violence or else you'd be seeing something like a zombie horde come out on the street with each release of Call of Duty."

I did not say this, I said , IT DESENSITIZES PEOPLE, it makes it more acceptable to people.

"The problem with commonly accepted theories like this and the gateway drug theory for cannabis is that the relationship between the purported causal factor and the purported result has very poor correlation and small sample size. Teeeeensy number of mass shootings to millions of video game players and you claim there is a relationship."

No I said, IT DESENSITIZES PEOPLE, its another straw on the camels back, that makes it generally more acceptable/normal for people to see.

"I'm not saying video game playing might desensitize people to fantasy violence they may also see in the cinema. I'm just saying practically all of people who play video games or the millions more exposed to violence on TV and in movies are able discriminate between what is fantasy and what is real real. We have 10's of mass shooters in the US every year and you point to millions of video players. I guess some psychiatrists are just bad at statistics."

You are making assumptions here, that everyone thinks like you and has the same personal reality as you. They don't, so you cant say what, they do or do not experience when watching films and playing video games.Practically all is not everyone, the ones who are not included in practically all, could POSSIBLY experience it as something more real than most and become more DESENSITIZED than most other people playing them.

"I guess some psychiatrists are just bad at statistics."

I take that you are referring to me, not accepting your "study" argument. I would agree, psychiatrists are bad a lot of things, not just statistics.

I was a psychoanalyst, not a psychiatrist, they are different.

"Myself, I'm not a video game player nor am I a fan of shoot'em ups, slasher movies or other blood and guts movies. For example, I actively avoided seeing even the trailer of Silence of the Lambs, not because I think it's a bad movie but I'm unwilling to allow those images in my head. You completely miss my reasoning and assumed bias. No more true was your belief that there is a reasonably good relationship between video games and mass shootings."

Good for you, you are actively trying to stay sensitive to violence, one less DESENSITIZED person to worry about.
You should try playing computer games, especially first person shooters, you might get a different perspective on my argument.

I used to play Battlefield 3, sometimes competitively for clans, before my injury stopped play. I think I have about 3,000 hours logged just on BF3. I was really good, usually placed in the top 5 players on any server I played on. I enjoyed the psychological aspects to it as well as looking into an opponents eyes before sticking a knife in his chest lol. The first time I played it, I lasted 20 minutes before I had to stop, because I was shaking so much from the adrenaline and anger at dying very quickly. Sitting in front of a 42 inch high def tv, 3 ft in front of me, with a high performance gaming rig and surround sound headphones on. It took me about 3 hours to calm down. I tried playing it again 2 weeks later, after the ptsd subsided, still got the same adrenaline rush and frustration with the weapons, I wasn't used to using. Every time I played I DESENSITIZED myself further to the sounds and emotions I was experiencing, so I could focus on my targets more easily. Yes I understand the difference between virtual and real reality, no it would not consciously make me a killer. At an unconscious level it was part of my personal reality and did DESENSITIZE me to violence at a conscious everyday level. My buddy who had never had a driving accident, hit 2 parked cars and put his car in a ditch 40 yds down the rd after leaving my house after playing Driver for 3 hours. He said he just got in the car and started to drive like he had just been doing on the computer game.

"Guns are the problem, not video games."

No, video games, like a lot of other things, are a part of the problem, why people in the USA, accept and make it easy to access guns. Guns are the biggest part of the problem.

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UncleBuck said:

holy mother of meltdowns

you just outdid michiganklanboi

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Fogdog said:

He certainly triggered easily, didn't he? Must be from playing those video games. I hear those violent games make people more aggressive.

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