2 week babies turn yellow and then become dry PLEASE HELP (pics inc)

gforgrow · Jan 20, 2010

Hi

I am at 4th try to grow, and i must say that the previous 3 were a big failure.

So i decide to ask for help hopping that i will find what is going wrong.

If anyone can help me PLEASE do.

My growroom is 1,2m x 1.2m (4 x 4 ft)

For light i use a 600w MH in cultube plus 8 energy saver lumps (35w --> 150w eatch ).
The lumps and cultube are about 20 inc from the plants

I have a RV fan (375m2/h) with carbon filter to draw the heat out
and 2 small fans for air circulate.

I use the MH for 12 hours and the 8 lamps for the other 12 ( yes i try to save some money )
so i have a fan heater in case the temp goes down.

The temp in the room is between 18-19 C ( 64,4 - 66,2 F ) low and 24-25 C ( 75,2 - 77 F ) high

I use ALL-MIX by BIOBIZZ for soil and the soil PH is at 7

When i watering i fix the PH at 5,8-6 trying to lower the soil PH below 7 with no success till now.

I havent give them any nutrients yet

Where is the problem ?

About a week after germination the leaves start turning yellow.

In 2 or 3 weeks they become dry ( from outside to inside ) and finaly my babies die.

This happen in my previous attempts and it's starting to happen and in my last one.

The last 2 pics are from my 3rd try so you can see how it ends.

These pics are 4 days old, so the things are more bad than you see here.

I don't know if i have the time to save it but if you can help me PLEASE DO.

Thanks

TheNatural · Jan 20, 2010

Too much water, is what it looks like too me.

Let them get completely dry, before you water them " especially the young ones. "

Once they have established a good root ball, then they can tolerate a little more Ooops situations, but in their little seedling stage, they are really sensitive to over watering for sure.

Been there and done that and learned,lol.

Blessings,

Rev. TheNatural

gforgrow · Jan 20, 2010

Thanks for the tip TheNatural

Any idea what's that green thing in the soil ( 2 last pictures ) ?

TheNatural · Jan 20, 2010

Not the best picture, but it looks too be a mold.

That would also be the first indication of over watering also, so that will be my personnel bet on your situation.

Blessings,

Rev. TheNatural

Jerry Garcia · Jan 20, 2010

That "green thing" is moss or algae or something that has formed because you kept your soil too moist. I've actually had the green stuff happen to me using BioBizz Light mix soil. When you transplant or even before you transplant you can knock off the top layer of soil and replace it with some fresh stuff.

And I agree, it looks overwatered. When you plant a seed, you should plant it, water it, and then let it go until the soil gets dry. Little 2 day old plants don't need much water at all, and it looks like you're trying to feed/water them as soon as they break the surface. What you are doing is suffocating the roots...while they need water to uptake nutrients, they also need oxygen, which is why you let the soil dry out a little before watering again.

Why are you trying to lower the pH below 7? It's set to 7 for a reason...because that's where soil plants like it. And how are you measuring the pH of your soil? It sounds to me like you are trying to do WAY to much.

Do you have drainage holes cut into those styrofoam cups?

Also, that all-mix probably has enough built in nutrients to last you at least the first couple weeks. You don't need to feed anything immediately, and when you do decide to begin feeding it should be in VERY dilute amounts...1/4 or less than the recommended dosage.

melius09 · Jan 20, 2010

If you are not feeding them totally organic I would try to add some hydrogen peroxide to your watering solution. This will kill any unwanted molds or moss. The beneficial microbes will have no problem making a comeback. And yes I agree I think perhaps you may be watering them too much. What is your watering schedule? Also make sure your not over feeding them. I generally dont start to add nutes untill like there 2nd pr 3rd week. There is also some good information here http://www.onlinepot.org/grow/nutrients2.htm

gforgrow · Jan 20, 2010

Jerry Garcia said:
That "green thing" is moss or algae or something that has formed because you kept your soil too moist. I've actually had the green stuff happen to me using BioBizz Light mix soil. When you transplant or even before you transplant you can knock off the top layer of soil and replace it with some fresh stuff.

And I agree, it looks overwatered. When you plant a seed, you should plant it, water it, and then let it go until the soil gets dry. Little 2 day old plants don't need much water at all, and it looks like you're trying to feed/water them as soon as they break the surface. What you are doing is suffocating the roots...while they need water to uptake nutrients, they also need oxygen, which is why you let the soil dry out a little before watering again.

Why are you trying to lower the pH below 7? It's set to 7 for a reason...because that's where soil plants like it. And how are you measuring the pH of your soil? It sounds to me like you are trying to do WAY to much.

Do you have drainage holes cut into those styrofoam cups?

Also, that all-mix probably has enough built in nutrients to last you at least the first couple weeks. You don't need to feed anything immediately, and when you do decide to begin feeding it should be in VERY dilute amounts...1/4 or less than the recommended dosage.

Yes there is a big hole in the center of the cup.

I read somewhere that the best PH is from 5.8 to 7 so i figure about 6.5 is a good PH.

I have a soil pH tester and aquarium PH tester just to be sure,
and you know that's what makes me crazy the most.

I read many posts, i found videos with directions, and i pay allot of money to buy everything that is needed to grow good stuff, and for 3 months now i can't get a plant taller than a cigarette.

I guess nothing's like experience

Thanks for reply m8.

krazy12766 · Jan 20, 2010

I like your set up bro , just get some more seeds and try again Im sure this time you will have success , just dont over water ;]

Jerry Garcia · Jan 20, 2010

gforgrow said:
Yes there is a big hole in the center of the cup.

I read somewhere that the best PH is from 5.8 to 7 so i figure about 6.5 is a good PH.

I have a soil pH tester and aquarium PH tester just to be sure,
and you know that's what makes me crazy the most.

I read many posts, i found videos with directions, and i pay allot of money to buy everything that is needed to grow good stuff, and for 3 months now i can't get a plant taller than a cigarette.

I guess nothing's like experience

Thanks for reply m8.

I feel you. There's so much info out there it is easy to get overwhelmed and feel the need to do everything perfect. But you just have to remember you are growing a plant, and it just needs a few things to grow...light, water, food, and a good medium. Let's focus on getting these initial factors right, and then go from there.

1) Light: 600w MH and 8 35w cfl's. That's a lot for seedlings. You said you run the MH for 12 hours and cfls for 12 hours, so I'm assuming your light schedule is 24/0. Change this to 18/6 or 20/4 and focus on just using the 600w mh. You can add the cfl's once the plants get bigger, but a 600w mh provides all the coverage you need for seedlings. And if you'd rather save $$ and run the cfl's, you want them as close to the bulbs as you can get without touching...within a couple inches if possible.

You already have a cooltube, which is great, as you can move the 600w mh closer to the plants as they get bigger and can take more light. But as seedlings 20" is probably a good distance...

2) Water: this is the only part where I think pH is important. Keep it as to close to 7 as possible. Do you use tap water? How do you adjust the pH? I wouldn't even try adjusting the pH until you get a digital pH meter and find out EXACTLY(ish) what your pH is. Those fish-test kits give general ideas and leave too much risk for error and misreading, as well as being useless for measuring the pH of a water+fertilizer mixture. A digital pH pen/stick/meter on ebay is around $20, plus some calibration liquid, and will give you a reliable enough reading. Make sure the water (and/or nutrient solution mixed with the water) you feed your plants is between 6.5-7 and you won't need to try and measure the pH of soil. As long as you aren't putting water with a pH of 8.5 or 5.0 you should be fine, but knowing is half the battle (GI Joe!).

3) Food. You're going to have to administer nutrients after the first couple weeks in your soil. I recommend organic nutrients, but you can use whatever is most readily available. For veg nutrients you can get cheap fish emulsion ferts from a hardware store. All foods have an N-P-K value. You want higher N for veg, higher P and K for flower. For example...9-3-2 for veg and 3-9-8 for flower or something there about.

4) Medium. All-mix sounds pretty good. I use BioBizz light mix and add some FF Light Warrior, as well as worm castings, guano and perlite. Even though there are nutrients in the soil you can give a light fertilizer feeding after the first week or so.

I hope this helps a little. Just try to scale things back a bit and don't over-complicate it! :leaf:

gforgrow · Jan 20, 2010

Jerry Garcia said:
I feel you. There's so much info out there it is easy to get overwhelmed and feel the need to do everything perfect. But you just have to remember you are growing a plant, and it just needs a few things to grow...light, water, food, and a good medium. Let's focus on getting these initial factors right, and then go from there.

1) Light: 600w MH and 8 35w cfl's. That's a lot for seedlings. You said you run the MH for 12 hours and cfls for 12 hours, so I'm assuming your light schedule is 24/0. Change this to 18/6 or 20/4 and focus on just using the 600w mh. You can add the cfl's once the plants get bigger, but a 600w mh provides all the coverage you need for seedlings. And if you'd rather save $$ and run the cfl's, you want them as close to the bulbs as you can get without touching...within a couple inches if possible.

You already have a cooltube, which is great, as you can move the 600w mh closer to the plants as they get bigger and can take more light. But as seedlings 20" is probably a good distance...

2) Water: this is the only part where I think pH is important. Keep it as to close to 7 as possible. Do you use tap water? How do you adjust the pH? I wouldn't even try adjusting the pH until you get a digital pH meter and find out EXACTLY(ish) what your pH is. Those fish-test kits give general ideas and leave too much risk for error and misreading, as well as being useless for measuring the pH of a water+fertilizer mixture. A digital pH pen/stick/meter on ebay is around $20, plus some calibration liquid, and will give you a reliable enough reading. Make sure the water (and/or nutrient solution mixed with the water) you feed your plants is between 6.5-7 and you won't need to try and measure the pH of soil. As long as you aren't putting water with a pH of 8.5 or 5.0 you should be fine, but knowing is half the battle (GI Joe!).

3) Food. You're going to have to administer nutrients after the first couple weeks in your soil. I recommend organic nutrients, but you can use whatever is most readily available. For veg nutrients you can get cheap fish emulsion ferts from a hardware store. All foods have an N-P-K value. You want higher N for veg, higher P and K for flower. For example...9-3-2 for veg and 3-9-8 for flower or something there about.

4) Medium. All-mix sounds pretty good. I use BioBizz light mix and add some FF Light Warrior, as well as worm castings, guano and perlite. Even though there are nutrients in the soil you can give a light fertilizer feeding after the first week or so.

I hope this helps a little. Just try to scale things back a bit and don't over-complicate it!

Again thanks for the help

1.I don't run cfl's and MH together so i think it's OK to use both. If i have to choose I'll take the cfl's so i can save some money.

Now for the 18/6 or 20/4 , is the 24/0 too bad ?
Because my setup is in a place with no heat and 24/0 helps me keep the temp from going down.

2. The PH tester ( aquarium was a wrong word - my English are not so good ) is digital with 2 decimal digits so i can find out exactly the PH in the water.
The water is from my house with PH around 8 so i use PH DOWN to bring it down.

3. My nutrients are all organic from BioBizz (Bio-Grow for Veg, Bio-Bloom for Flower, and i also have TopMax[bloom stimulator], ,BioHeaven[Plant Energy booster] and RootJuice[vegetable based root stimulator]).
I haven't start feeding yet since the soil has his own nutrients.
I want to give them RootJuice to help the roots but I'm a little afraid.
What do you think ?

4. As i said before the soil is All-Mix (20% sphagnum peat moss, 35% garden peat, 10% high quality organic Worm-Humus , 30% perlite and 5% Pre-Mix)

So my friend as you can see i have everything and in theory I'm ready to grow but ....

:wall:

Jerry Garcia · Jan 21, 2010

You're right...you do have everything you need already, it's just putting it all together.

Use the CFL's if that's what you prefer. I veg with 26w CFL's and it works great for me. Just keep the plants as close as possible to the lights...which may mean doing a slight re-arrange of your setup. Maybe not though, you can probably make it work.

24/0 is not bad, but it won't give you optimal growth or plant health. Plants need a dark cycle just as they do a light cycle. What are your day/night temps and humidity? It's good for the temperature to drop 10-15 degrees (fahrenheit) when the lights go out, but you don't want to go any lower than 55f (~13C).

You have a pH tester...perfect! Sorry I misunderstood you before. Use that pH down and get your water between 6.5 and 7. Soil makes a great pH buffer, and it's best to just keep it around neutral (7). If the pH is out of range your plant won't be able uptake certain macro/micro nutrients and can really be a pain. Don't worry about the soil pH...it is pre-adjusted to be around 7, so if your water/nutrient solution stays around 7 when you feed it to your plants it should be perfect.

The BioBizz nutrient line sounds great. If it weren't so damn expensive I'd probably try it myself. But the point is it's organic, which is good. I would go ahead and give a light root juice application. You could also maybe use the BioHeaven, as it is a plant "energy stimulator" (and $100 USD per bottle!), but check the label first.

Maybe it's the styrofoam cups? What strain are you growing?

It could just be you have been overwatering them. Any new pics?

gforgrow · Jan 21, 2010

Jerry Garcia said:
You're right...you do have everything you need already, it's just putting it all together.

Use the CFL's if that's what you prefer. I veg with 26w CFL's and it works great for me. Just keep the plants as close as possible to the lights...which may mean doing a slight re-arrange of your setup. Maybe not though, you can probably make it work.

24/0 is not bad, but it won't give you optimal growth or plant health. Plants need a dark cycle just as they do a light cycle. What are your day/night temps and humidity? It's good for the temperature to drop 10-15 degrees (fahrenheit) when the lights go out, but you don't want to go any lower than 55f (~13C).

You have a pH tester...perfect! Sorry I misunderstood you before. Use that pH down and get your water between 6.5 and 7. Soil makes a great pH buffer, and it's best to just keep it around neutral (7). If the pH is out of range your plant won't be able uptake certain macro/micro nutrients and can really be a pain. Don't worry about the soil pH...it is pre-adjusted to be around 7, so if your water/nutrient solution stays around 7 when you feed it to your plants it should be perfect.

The BioBizz nutrient line sounds great. If it weren't so damn expensive I'd probably try it myself. But the point is it's organic, which is good. I would go ahead and give a light root juice application. You could also maybe use the BioHeaven, as it is a plant "energy stimulator" (and $100 USD per bottle!), but check the label first.

Maybe it's the styrofoam cups? What strain are you growing?

It could just be you have been overwatering them. Any new pics?

Well i turn in 18/6 and i try the cfl's.
The temps are 57.7 min 71.9 max and the hum is 43-55.
So now i try the MH and I'll see the temps tomorrow.

For BioHeaven 100 USD ? For how much ?
I buy 1 LT for 45 EUROS.

The strain is from the road. Seeds from stuff i smoke.
I know it's not the best but in my country it's forbidden to have seeds and i don't want to give my card over the NET for seeds.
That's why i take all my equip from a store 100 km from where i leave and i pay at least 20% up from the NET.

The pics now.
For some it's too late but maybe some they can made it.
Anyway I'll wait for a week to see whats happen and if they don't get over I'll start from the beginning

Take a look at the last pic. Three of a kind ? Have you seen this before ? Is it often ?

Jerry Garcia · Jan 22, 2010

Yeah, I think the BioHeaven was $100 for 1L. 45 Euro is a good deal I think...or my store was really trying to rip someone off.

Sucks about your restricted access to equipment and seeds, but I'm glad you're making the most of what you've got. Growing bagseed isn't bad, it just isn't as good as the stuff you pay for. Though I'm sure you can find a keeper somewhere in that lot of yours.

I would just run those cfls for a few days and not worry about the mh. Keep the cfls within a few inches of the seedlings and once they get bigger you can switch to the mh.

2 week babies turn yellow and then become dry PLEASE HELP (pics inc)

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