Dam white bugs are back again. +rep for help

Some of you may have read a question I posted a week or two ago on a small white & fast bug that's about the size of a pin head. I had gotten rid of them but they're back.

When I posted the last question I indentified the pests as Spider Mites, Fungus Gnats, & White Flies. I'm not 100% sure that's what they were, but the description seems to fit them.

I sprayed heavily with Mite X and the next day I released 3,000 lady bugs. I also removed all the leaves with white dots on them.

They dissapeared and I haven't seen any more damage to the leaves, but one of them came back. The ones that look like tiny white dots that move fast for their size.

So far I've only seen them on the rims of the planters which are black. I bought a cheap $10 pocket microscope (60x to 100x) from Radio Shack and I tried to take a look at them on the planter rims, no luck. When I use the microscope on the rims all I see is black.

So I took a piece of paper tape and tried to get one to stick to it and again no luck. I think I got one of their legs, but not sure. Too small to be a lady bug leg though. So I'm having trouble identifying it.

Does anyone know of a pest that looks white to the human eye and moves quickly? They kinda look like bug shit, but smaller.

Also, does anyone know of a spray I can use on pests that wont hurt the lady bugs?

I'm not sure if the lady bugs can see them. I put one right in front of one of these little white things and it just walked over it.

And I don't know where they're breeding. I don't think they're breeding on the plant since I don't see any damage to the leaves.

+rep for anyone that helps me identify them or figure out a treatment I can use without killing the lady bugs.

I don't know your setup but I've solved all my pest problems with pyrethrum foggers. Works if you're in an enclosed area. Some are cheap (pictured is $7 from GREEN EARTH on Divisadero in SF, others are up to $30 at other. stores), others not. Work good. Two applications 1 week apart.

try using sum neem oil that shit werks wunders. mix like 3-4 drops of neem seed oil and 1-2 drops of ivory dish soap to a spray bottle and use it on ur soil and if u spray the leaves do it wen lites are off so ur plants dont absorb it thru photosynthesis

herbose said:

I don't know your setup but I've solved all my pest problems with pyrethrum foggers. Works if you're in an enclosed area. Some are cheap (pictured is $7 from GREEN EARTH on Divisadero in SF, others are up to $30 at other. stores), others not. Work good. Two applications 1 week apart.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the help. +rep

Is that stuff safe for lady bugs. I'd hate to have to go in there and clean up 3,000 dead lady bugs. lol

GeeTee said:

try using sum neem oil that shit werks wunders. mix like 3-4 drops of neem seed oil and 1-2 drops of ivory dish soap to a spray bottle and use it on ur soil and if u spray the leaves do it wen lites are off so ur plants dont absorb it thru photosynthesis

Click to expand...

Thanks for the help. +rep

I have them on a 24/0 light scedule and in 6 days I'll be switching them to a 12/12 to flower. I've been told not to change the light scedules that quickly so I'm kinda stuck with a 24/0 scedule right now.

I know Mite X would work and it's safe for plants, but I don't know if it's safe for lady bugs.

Do you know of any organic sprays that are safe for lady bugs?

Also, I think the lady bugs are keeping them off the plants. There's gotta be some reason they're staing off the plants. Another reason I don't wanna kill the lady bugs.

thx for rep. also neem oil is made from the neem tree so its all natural and u can git it at a health food store for like 7-10 dollars a bottle

GeeTee said:

thx for rep. also neem oil is made from the neem tree so its all natural and u can git it at a health food store for like 7-10 dollars a bottle

Click to expand...

Cool, if it's natural I should be able to use it with the light on, right.

I know I have to turn one of the two 400w HIDs off and raise the other to about 28" above the plant tops to minimize burns, but it's ok to let the plant photosynthesize while the Neem Oil is on the plant?

And thanks for the $ saving tip. All the nurseries are closed right now and that's usually where I go to save $.

Also, do you know it the neem oil is safe for lady bugs?

DannyGreenEyes said:

Also, do you know it the neem oil is safe for lady bugs?

Click to expand...

yes it is very much safe for ur lady bugs

GeeTee said:

yes it is very much safe for ur lady bugs

Click to expand...

Very cool, thanks again M8. You just saved me from a lot of trouble, 3,000 dead lady bugs would take all day to find and toss out. lol

I'll use the Neem Oil, but for future reference, does anyone know what type of bugs these may be or if any kind of pest can reproduce if they're not on the plants themselves?

it mite b white flies i had sum my last grow little fuckers only came up wen i watered and ther really fuckin fast

but the white flies i had dint seem to hurt my plants. coupla times i open the door to my grow room i had saw a coupla fly around and thats was the only way i cood tell wat the little ones wer

GeeTee said:

it mite b white flies i had sum my last grow little fuckers only came up wen i watered and ther really fuckin fast

Click to expand...

That's what I thought they might be when I saw them on the plant (before lady bugs). But they don't fly, at least not at this stage in their development (when they're the size of a pin head) so it's hard to say if it's them. They are fast for their size though, and they seem to know I'm there when I'm around and try to hide from me.

yea i noe wat u meen they are fast as hell. yea u still have small ones i had sum that fully develop and wer flyin round in the room and like i sayed that was the only way i knew wat they wer. but u shood b ok jus use the neem oil thats wat i used 2 treatments a week apart and ther prtty much gone

And I'm about to transplant from 5gallon to 10 gallon containers too, dam bad timing.

If I toss the old 5 gallon containers that I'll be cutting to shit during the transplant anyway, and spray down the new containers before the transplant I imagine I'll be ok. Does the neem oil last for a while on plastic surfaces?

I'll spray the soil & leaves after the transplant, I'm sure that will help too. And I'll treat again in 7 days, I'll just hold up on the flowering for a couple of days.

Do you know if they can reproduce off the plant, like in carpet or on wood so I can treat there too?

the neem oil prolly wont work, as the white fly larvae feed off of crap that is beneath the surface of the soil...
no, to get rid of white flies or fungal gnats, you need to choke the little bastards out, and interrupt the life cycle.
go to home depot/lowes, and get a bag of playground sand, and cover the top layer of your soil1-2 inches deep, evenly as you can get it, with no gaps or areas of shallow coverage.
this prevents new adult flies from digging out of the soil, and flying off to mate, then returning to burrow down into the soil to lay eggs. they just cant dig through the sand, for some reason, like ants will not cross ash... wierd, but it works. also stops 'gouging' the top layer of soil when you water, so 2 for the price of one.

ps- the sand will not harm your plants in anyway, and actually improves the drainage and aeration of the soil if you mix it into the soil after the flies are gone. i leave it on for a good 2-3 weeks for sure. some people never take it off.

i woodnt spray neem on ur carpet bro that shit smells like really old garlic. the neem really fucks the inset up they wont b able to reproduce once it enters ther system
but i dont noe bout them reproducin in carpet or off the plant.

IAm5toned said:

the neem oil prolly wont work, as the white fly larvae feed off of crap that is beneath the surface of the soil...
no, to get rid of white flies or fungal gnats, you need to choke the little bastards out, and interrupt the life cycle.
go to home depot/lowes, and get a bag of playground sand, and cover the top layer of your soil1-2 inches deep, evenly as you can get it, with no gaps or areas of shallow coverage.
this prevents new adult flies from digging out of the soil, and flying off to mate, then returning to burrow down into the soil to lay eggs. they just cant dig through the sand, for some reason, like ants will not cross ash... wierd, but it works. also stops 'gouging' the top layer of soil when you water, so 2 for the price of one.

ps- the sand will not harm your plants in anyway, and actually improves the drainage and aeration of the soil if you mix it into the soil after the flies are gone. i leave it on for a good 2-3 weeks for sure. some people never take it off.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the help. +rep

I'll have to wait till I tranplant before I try the sand. But it's not gonna work if they're not white flies. Is there any way I can check it and make sure that's what they are?

Are there any other pests that appear to be white when there at the "size of a pin head" stage?

GeeTee said:

i woodnt spray neem on ur carpet bro that shit smells like really old garlic. the neem really fucks the inset up they wont b able to reproduce once it enters ther system
but i dont noe bout them reproducin in carpet or off the plant.

Click to expand...

Well if these are white flies it would make sense because if the eggs are in the soil then they can get to the planter and not the plant. Maybe they're avoiding the plants because of the lady bugs, I don't know.

And if they can't feed on the plants, then I don't know what they're eating, maybe each other. I guess I need to make sure it's white flies somehow.

Thanks for the help. It wont let me +rep you again, I'll have to owe you one.

np bro. glad i cood b of sum help

DannyGreenEyes said:

Thanks for the help. +rep

I'll have to wait till I tranplant before I try the sand. But it's not gonna work if they're not white flies. Is there any way I can check it and make sure that's what they are?

Are there any other pests that appear to be white when there at the "size of a pin head" stage?

Click to expand...

on the left, common green aphid; on the right, adult whitefly. lower pic is enlarged adult whitefly, female on the right. females are always larger, should be your number one target...


enlarged juvenile whitefly/larvae stage:


adult fungal gnat- sex undetermined, as with whiteflies, the females will be larger.


fungal gnat juvenile/larvae: