Multiple Deficiency I HAVE tried everything...PLease Expert advice!!! TONS OF PICS!

Setup:

DWC 5 Gallon Bucket
strain: white widow
5 weeks old
300 watt CFL veg
400 Hps for flowering
Hydrotron w/rockwool cubes
r/o water
Air pump w/ 2 airstone
2 Fans Top and bottom
Using Fox farm grow big, big bloom, tiger bloom
Humidity: 45-50%
Temp: 74-79 degrees
plenty of ventilation
I have a TDS AND PH METER
Water temp was 72 degree's recently brought it down to 65 degrees
I use AQUARIUM ph up and down???
RIGHT NOW:

PPM:1200 Following FOX FARM NUTE CHART
i know a lot of people tell me 1200 is to high? BUT with fox farm I am being told to follow it exactly!

pH: 5.8 DRIFTS UP AFTER AN HR OR SO


PROBLEM:

Started 2 weeks ago, what started out to be a PH problem had no Ph meter For the first 3 weeks and found out my PH was LOW LOW 4.5 area.

Now that i have all the proper TOOLS i have been taking the proper steps to helping her recover from what was a ph problem that turned into calcium/mg/ ect problems?


SO FAR:
I Have Flushed 3 times changing the nutes all 3 times.

I went with low ppms the first flush and no change at all. I added 1/2 gallon of CAL-MAG PLUS-no help
Foliar sprayed with CAL-MAG PLUS - no help

Flushed again Cleaned with Hydrogen Peroxide refilled with nutes according to scedule -didnt help
added epsom salt
-foliar sprayed with epsom salt- didnt help

Flushed a third time only using nutes changed res temp to 65 degrees and added hydrogen peroixde -still no sign of recovery

PLant is growing new growth just fine actually very very well.. Its growing literally 2-3 inch every day. Older leaves effected first and they just continue to jump from leaf to leaf. What looks like a calcium deff/.. but it could be mg. or p deficiency...i still cant figure it out maybe root rot?roots are brown but might be from FOX FARM Big bloom.. i have been trying so hard to figure it out.

I have to adjust my Ph all the time From rising to about 6.2-6.3

PPM is constantly going up and down Along with the Ph going up?

So please I have seen tons of post with similar problems and none of those solutions seem to be working i dont want to loose her and her new growth is so nice, i just now in a couple days it will be effected also..

please expert advice please....Could root rot cause all these symptoms? is there something i a missing? i Have tons of pics and would appreciate some help. And please If you have had this problem and had succuss fixing it can i have details??? telling me to throw in some epsom salt and ill be fine doesnt work? Thank you so much!!!

bump..smoke while i wait..bump...




NOTHING??

HeLLa x GoOd said:

bump..smoke while i wait..bump...




NOTHING??

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Yo, dig into the hydroton and see if the roots are brown or have crust/slime on them, those roots do look a little brown. Could be stained from the nutes though.

lampshade said:

Yo, dig into the hydroton and see if the roots are brown or have crust/slime on them, those roots do look a little brown. Could be stained from the nutes though.

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PH rising in hydro means that it needs more nutes. But if the PPM is increasing it means that there are too much nutes. PH rise is common with root rot.

lampshade said:

PH rising in hydro means that it needs more nutes. But if the PPM is increasing it means that there are too much nutes. PH rise is common with root rot.

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Oh shit 1200ppm thats pretty high bro. Id go with less.

hey man thanks for the reply...its wierd i been whatching the ppm and ph checking it every hour and they go up together and then the ppm will drop for hour or so and go right back up along with the ph. Ive seen the cheat sheet about ppm going up/ ph going down but mine both go up... and as far as teh 1200 ppm im using fox farm nutes i belive it organic or the big bloom is and was told to follow the ppm on the scedule exactlly ... you think i should lower back down?? tho

This is a magnesium deficiency...it's what I had.So many plant problems look similar, and I'm no expert, but I'd say it might be that...it's starting from the bottom,looks the same...are any of your leaves cupping?That's another sign.
Magnesium
Chlorophyll has the same structure as Hemoglobin, except that it has a magnesium atom in place of the Iron atom. Chlorophyll is how plants make sugars to feed the process of building ATP through the Krebs cycle.








A magnesium deficient plant is identified by intervenial chlorosis, necrosis, and eventually a lockout of plant nutrients. The problems starts at the bottom of the plants and works it?s way up.









These images depict different stages and signs of a magnesium deficiency. The first picture is a Mg deficient plant in flower, and the second two are of the leaves to show what I mean by Intervenial Chlorosis.

Treating with an Epsom salts mix will clear this right up.




Magnesium (Mg)
Magnesium is a component of the chlorophyll molecule and serves as a cofactor in most enzymes.
Magnesium (Mg) deficiency:
Magnesium deficiency will exhibit a yellowing (which may turn brown) and interveinal chlorosis beginning in the older leaves. The older leaves will be the first to develop interveinal chlorosis. Starting at leaf margin or tip and progressing inward between the veins. Notice how the veins remain somewhat green though as can be seen in figure 15.
Notice how in figure 16 and 17 the leaves curl upwards like they're praying? They're praying for Mg! The tips may also twist.
This can be quickly resolved by watering with 1 tablespoon Epsom salts/gallon of water. Until you can correct nutrient lockout, try foliar feeding. That way the plants get all the nitrogen and Mg they need. The plants can be foliar feed at ½ teaspoon/quart of Epsom salts (first powdered and dissolved in some hot water). When mixing up soil, use 2 teaspoon dolomite lime per gallon of soil.
If the starting water is above 200 ppm, that is pretty hard water, that will lock out mg with all of the calcium in the water. Either add a 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of epsom salts or lime (both will effectively reduce the lockout or invest into a reverse osmosis water filter.
Mg can get locked-up by too much Ca, Cl or ammonium nitrogen. Don't overdo Mg or you'll lock up other nutrients.


Figure 15


Figure 16

Yeah those schedule just force you to use up nutes quicker. There is no schedule for plants. There are so many things to factor in. Every plant and strain has a different nute requirement. Also it depends on the amount of light, co1, o2 and a multitude of other stuff.

Root rot will cause an increase in pH and it does effect ppm. You should dig into hydroton and check your roots. Also do your roots feel slimey or look brown?

Perhaps try flushing with clean water for a couple days and ''start over" with your nutrient routine. Personally thats what i would try

well i just dug into the hyrotron and the roots are white a lot whiter then the ones inside the water which are tanish. The roots in the water do have a little bit of brown slime and im talking about maybe 2 little specs of it , not sure if that from the Big bloom which is muddy brown itself. Im gonna lower the ppm to around 600 and do another flush ...as far as the mag/ deff. I agree with you i think it has Mg. deffincey /calcium deff. and something esle. I have tried epsom salt in the water and as a spray and it actually just continued to get worse. I have tryed cal-mag and it got worse so im just stumped now...also a couple leaves show cupping not too bad tho and it actually started at the bottom leaves but now it effect almost every leaf on the plant except for new growth which will get effects after a few days=( thanks again tho i will continue to fight and try to resolve this problem...


im using 2 6 inch airstones.....and a 300 watt cfl??

should i add more air?
change the light to my 400 watt hps?

i think i will try flushing for a couple days and attempt to start over, i just feel like she gets worse after every flush.

Yeah, I don't do hydro, so listen to the guys who do, and flush.Good luck.

HeLLa x GoOd said:

well i just dug into the hyrotron and the roots are white a lot whiter then the ones inside the water which are tanish. The roots in the water do have a little bit of brown slime and im talking about maybe 2 little specs of it , not sure if that from the Big bloom which is muddy brown itself. Im gonna lower the ppm to around 600 and do another flush ...as far as the mag/ deff. I agree with you i think it has Mg. deffincey /calcium deff. and something esle. I have tried epsom salt in the water and as a spray and it actually just continued to get worse. I have tryed cal-mag and it got worse so im just stumped now...=( thanks again tho i will continue to fight and try to resolve this problem...

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HeLLa x GoOd said:

well i just dug into the hyrotron and the roots are white a lot whiter then the ones inside the water which are tanish. The roots in the water do have a little bit of brown slime and im talking about maybe 2 little specs of it , not sure if that from the Big bloom which is muddy brown itself. Im gonna lower the ppm to around 600 and do another flush ...as far as the mag/ deff. I agree with you i think it has Mg. deffincey /calcium deff. and something esle. I have tried epsom salt in the water and as a spray and it actually just continued to get worse. I have tryed cal-mag and it got worse so im just stumped now...=( thanks again tho i will continue to fight and try to resolve this problem...


im using 2 6 inch airstones.....and a 300 watt cfl??

should i add more air?
change the light to my 400 watt hps?

i think i will try flushing for a couple days and attempt to start over, i just feel like she gets worse after every flush.

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I think lowering the ppm and flushing will help, but we will see. keep us posted. lamp.

thanks man.........

If like you say it ''seems to get worse after every flush" I would perhaps scrutinize the water to make sure it is ''clean". I in no way am trying to insult your growing skills, but rather just brainstorming to try to help a brother out.

scaredspliffless said:

If like you say it ''seems to get worse after every flush" I would perhaps scrutinize the water to make sure it is ''clean". I in no way am trying to insult your growing skills, but rather just brainstorming to try to help a brother out.

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Its because during a flush the water is extremely hypotonic. So water is rushing into the cell but its pulling out salts or nutes at the same time. I think your ppms are going crazy might be b/c its to high of nutes, so it pulls out water from the plant while giving it nutes, then it starts doing the opposite. But the pH rising is still a bit wierd. I still suspect that you could be getting early root rot, so stick with addisn h2o2 to thw rez. Also you might want to get an enzyme product. eg hygrozyme or hydroguard. Anyhow Best of luck to you, Lamp.

All help is appreciated not offense being taken. The first flush i bought r/o water from the store , learned that it lacked calcium so i thought that was my prob...so i went and got store distilled water ...still had the problem and i just recently bought some more R/O water from the store well says R/O or deionized water....is this bad??? i thought i could just add the miconutrients into the R/O water if need like mg/calcium..thanks again to everyone who replying im literally sitting here trying all your suggestions...so thanks again

I would suggest smoke a bowl.

And one for me too as i have recently moved and have been out for almost a month now. I am climbing the walls, so burn one for me and listen to lampshade as i think he is on the right track with his diagnosis.

scaredspliffless said:

And one for me too as i have recently moved and have been out for almost a month now. I am climbing the walls, so burn one for me and listen to lampshade as i think he is on the right track with his diagnosis.

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I dont like R/O water. The minerals in tap water is great for plants, also chlorine is a micronutrient to plants. Just let the tap water sit out overnight in a bucket.
Also flushing with r/o makes plants wilt.

haha its been 5 years since i was sober..i stay high all day haha..puff puff INHALE pass it to the left....((PRAYING FOR RECOVERY))Exhale.......thanks for the help