Another newb setting up a new indoor grow looking for input

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UnpossibleOne

Member
Hi all,

It looks like my original post got goobered, so I'll take a do-over with upgrades to my original proposal. What I am looking straight down the barrel of now is setting up a small grow room, and an adjacent bloom room. I'll lay out my plans first, and welcome any advice or input from the BTDT crew while I am still scribbling notes & roughing it in... :eyesmoke:

The grow room is 72"L x 42"W x 86"H, and the bloom room is slightly larger at 72"L x 66"W x 96"H. These are sited in an unfinished residential basement, which gets very little use, mostly to store our swimming pool and partio junk over winter.

Both rooms will be lit by air-cooled 1000 watt vapor lamps, each pulling fresh 65°F air from one common 20"x20" filtered grate inlet, through 8" insulated flex-ducts, and exhausting into the house HVAC air return duct. Each lamp will have it's own cooling air ducts, and will run on 240V AC.

Both rooms will have their own independant CO2 enrichment systems, circulation fans, and basic environmental monitoring systems (timers, min/max thermometers, hygrometers, automatic fire extinguishers.) Each room will have it's own 15 amp 120V circuit, but will share one 40 amp 240V circuit for both large lights. All the wiring will be encased in conduit, and securely fixed to the walls.

Outside of and within a shared block wall, is a 6" masonry flue inlet. (Pre-central heat & air, we used to heat with a 48" log & #2 oil furnace, this is it's exhaust) My plan is to have one 6" fan here, tee'd to more flex-duct and a 6" charcoal filter inside each room... so that one fan purges both rooms through filters and "up the chimney."

One 'assumption' that I'm gambling on is that my HVAC return will create enough suction to draw fresh cool air through the 20" x 20" filter, past the lights and into the HVAC air handler. We spec'd the hardware a bit larger than required forecasting an additional 10x20 room, so my guess is yes? Guesstimated duct runs are 12' for the bloom room and a bit less, maybe 10' for the grow room. I can get a pair of additional inline fans, but would like trying to use this 'free' air if it's do-able. This, and my hack labor might be the ONLY thing free about this project.

How is this all sounding so far? And thanks for any creative or thoughtful insight! I'm positive I have overlooked something...

:peace:
 
phillipchristian

phillipchristian

New Member
Everything looks good man. Couple things I noticed. What happens when the HVAC isn't running? Then you are not pulling air trough your hoods. If you run your flower cycle at night then you may have some issues cause your house will be cool and therefore the a/c won't be running. Also, putting inline fans on there may not completely help. Not sure what force feeding the return of your HVAC will do but but you might create a huge positive pressure build up inside of it. Also, make sure you seal your hoods if you do pump air into the HVAC. Don't want that flower bud smell being pumped through the house. Also, not sure what the ambient temperatures are outside of your room but make sure you have some passive air intakes for cooling and also to fill the negative pressure void you are creating by sucking air out through the carbon filter. Cracks under the door usually work fine. Maybe a small axial fan pulling air in. Test run your room for a couple days to make sure you can keep temps in your desired range. Figure that when you have plants in there the temps will be a few degrees higher and your dehumidifier (if you have one) will also be running a lot more and the exhaust from it adds heat to the room.

Good luck man.
 
U

UnpossibleOne

Member
Thanks Phillip,

I had been trying to sort out the lamp heat exhaust and the room air purge, and I considered our HVAC usage: I think for the past couple years we have never shut off the circulation fan... it may not be heating or cooling at any particular moment, but it is pulling house air through three 16 x 20 intakes, downstairs to that common return duct and into the "air handler." So with that, I think this would be okay. Without that HVAC fan pulling, then yes I'd need aux fans, and those would likely pump the heat up & into the rest of the house, 'backwards' through the idle returns. What is attractive is that my grow room doors are right adjacent to the air handler. To most any layman, the new ducts will blend with the not-so-old existing ducts, and look 'normal' My HVAC guy would be pretty WTFed though?

Sealing those lamp hoods is crucial.... a skunk loose in the house would turn mild-mannered Mrs Unpossible into a little red-headed Mount Krakatoa pretty much guaranteed. Fun to watch from a distance - maybe with earplugs in & eye-pro on, but would suck be all lounged out at the beach @ ground zero when the shit starts flying. I have one lamp assembly on hand, it has a tempered glass tube and a basic stippled aluminum reflector. Once I get one of the rooms mostly done, I was going to seal it up with high-temp RTV sealant, then do a test run with some incense & monitoring, to see what the heat & odor does.

"Plan B" for the heat removal is to just pump it back into the outer basement room(s) The whole area is 14 x 28 x 8, less the 55 sq ft grow area and less 12 sq ft HVAC air handler footprint... (whole space less grow & HVAC = 3140 CF, grow area = 440 CF, so we'd have 2600 CF) This underground room stays around 65° F 24/7/365 reliably, but IDK if that would be enough to buffer 2000 watts of warm. Well insulated floor above, so even if we took the cellar up 10° or so, it would be okay I think. The past few days it's been about 75-80% humidity down there, so some heat to dry stuff out will be fine.

Compared to the small (175w x 2 with no heat or odor controls, 6x 5gl buckets, bag seed) grow I had going on 15 years ago, this setup -hopefully- will be like going from a biplane to an F-117 stealth jet... A steep learning curve ahead, but should set me up for many years of fun in the indoor sun.

Today's plans include drilling some more wall anchor holes for the conduit clamps & tie hook bands, shooting more tubes of caulk, and maybe getting one coat of flat white layed down. I'll see about getting some work in progress pix up later.

Thanks!
 
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phishtank

Well-Known Member
As long as you have the fan on the air handler running constantly....then it should distribute the heat from those lights across all of your house...which if it gets chilly at night where you live that could be a good thing.
 
phillipchristian

phillipchristian

New Member
UnpossibleOne said:
Thanks Phillip,

I had been trying to sort out the lamp heat exhaust and the room air purge, and I considered our HVAC usage: I think for the past couple years we have never shut off the circulation fan... it may not be heating or cooling at any particular moment, but it is pulling house air through three 16 x 20 intakes, downstairs to that common return duct and into the "air handler." So with that, I think this would be okay. Without that HVAC fan pulling, then yes I'd need aux fans, and those would likely pump the heat up & into the rest of the house, 'backwards' through the idle returns. What is attractive is that my grow room doors are right adjacent to the air handler. To most any layman, the new ducts will blend with the not-so-old existing ducts, and look 'normal' My HVAC guy would be pretty WTFed though?

Sealing those lamp hoods is crucial.... a skunk loose in the house would turn mild-mannered Mrs Unpossible into a little red-headed Mount Krakatoa pretty much guaranteed. Fun to watch from a distance - maybe with earplugs in & eye-pro on, but would suck be all lounged out at the beach @ ground zero when the shit starts flying. I have one lamp assembly on hand, it has a tempered glass tube and a basic stippled aluminum reflector. Once I get one of the rooms mostly done, I was going to seal it up with high-temp RTV sealant, then do a test run with some incense & monitoring, to see what the heat & odor does.

"Plan B" for the heat removal is to just pump it back into the outer basement room(s) The whole area is 14 x 28 x 8, less the 55 sq ft grow area and less 12 sq ft HVAC air handler footprint... (whole space less grow & HVAC = 3140 CF, grow area = 440 CF, so we'd have 2600 CF) This underground room stays around 65° F 24/7/365 reliably, but IDK if that would be enough to buffer 2000 watts of warm. Well insulated floor above, so even if we took the cellar up 10° or so, it would be okay I think. The past few days it's been about 75-80% humidity down there, so some heat to dry stuff out will be fine.

Compared to the small (175w x 2 with no heat or odor controls, 6x 5gl buckets, bag seed) grow I had going on 15 years ago, this setup -hopefully- will be like going from a biplane to an F-117 stealth jet... A steep learning curve ahead, but should set me up for many years of fun in the indoor sun.

Today's plans include drilling some more wall anchor holes for the conduit clamps & tie hook bands, shooting more tubes of caulk, and maybe getting one coat of flat white layed down. I'll see about getting some work in progress pix up later.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Hey bud, good call with the circulation fan. I actually didn't think of that. Now that you describe it that way I think you'll be fine and it's actually a pretty intuitive idea. I think with that 1 fan pulling from both hood you will be fine. Of course you can't know till you test it out.

The downfall of any good grow op! The WIFE! :mrgreen: I wouldn't seal those hoods with any sealent though. Not sure which kind of hood you have but it might make it hard to open again in the future. I think some HVAC Flash tape will be just fine. You just want to seal the edges and around the ducting connections. Also, I think a couple sheets of carbon filter and HEPA filter between your exhaust fan and the HVAC ducting will eliminate any smell. You can pick these up cheap at Home Depot.

If your basement stays 65 then pumping the air back into that room would be fine in my opinion. I think that is plenty of space to buffer the heat from those hoods.

Keep me posted and if you need any help or just want to bounce some ideas around then let me know.
 
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UnpossibleOne

Member
Hi all, I've been busy little ant down in my hole...

Question? I have some 2x2 stock and planned to run one band around the walls of the bloom room, and screw a bunch of 1" (I think, maybe 3/4") hooks on maybe 8" spacing... How high off the floor would be good? 36" works well as does 44" (or 52" etc, 8" blocks and these # put my anchors center of block, and have +/-2")

I've got the lamp hood intake side 99% done, just needs one last sortie with the buzz-bomb to blacken a few smears of caulk & button it up. I backed off the idea of exhausting lamp heat via my HVAC return circuit... we did over-spec it for an additional room, and the logical place for it's return is where I was going to bugger it. What I will do is have a larger fan pulling through both hoods and exhausting into the general cellar rooms. Warm, dry air will be a benefit down there.

Tomorrow morning I had a dental appt early AM, and they bailed @ last minute this eve, so karma must intend me to to get all my 240v wiring done, and rig up the 8" ducts, and raise/lower the hood a time or three. Then address creating a ceiling, sealing it up and maybe hanging some film.

For lamp hoods I ended up with Easy Cool 8" for the bloom room and 6" for the growing room. I still need to get another ballast, but I need to focus on getting the big room lit up and making hay.

Also I need some ideas on a floor... there is nasty concrete existing, with gobs of dried block mortar. I need to see how much of that I can get chiseled up. Both rooms total 52 sq feet... LOL I may try my hand at tiling these, need to see about any deals on flat white and some cove trim for the edges. Another option I am considering is the DIY garage epoxy stuff. Tile would be badass though, a skill I need to learn, and this is a great "inconspicuous location" that they always advise one should test stuff on. I may be tiling at least one of our bathrooms not-so-far-off, this would be my 101 lab.

Unpossibly Busy...
 
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phishtank

Well-Known Member
I'd say use a concrete sealer and paint and just leave the floor as is once you get most of the mortar up.
 
U

UnpossibleOne

Member
A weekend and a night babysitting our 5yo granddaughter a huge jam in my production, but I have most all my wiring done, and have set the wall anchors for conduit clamps & CO2 jug safety chains. I lack boring holes & setting 8 more to mount Lumatek ballasts, awaiting Brown Santa on that.

Once all the holes are done & located, I can glue up some bugeye film and start wrapping it up. Then sort out lamp heat and room purge ventilation LOL. I have an 8" HV inline to pull through both hoods into the adjacent cellar (will have to stealth up the exhaust outlet yet) and a 6" HV fan for the purge, with two "tall boy" giant charcoal filters, one for each room. These look like fuel filters for a locomotive LOL.

My journey thus far has taught me three things:

One is being a “general contractor” requires a metric fuckton of beer and cash. Upgrading from one 6x5.5 room to adding a 6x3.5 on the fly was my fault, and I own that. It made the lamp air intake system way more professional though. I didn't have any real set budget when I got into this, then genius says x2! :hump:

Two is doing “general contractor” shit on the hush-hush is a pain in the ass. Possibly more so without an Igor to "just hold that shit up there for a second will ya…" Although Igor would have upped the beer bill to two metric fucktons, (to three? might double mine?) I might be done now? No need for help now though were home sailing.

Three is respect for the real tunnel rats... who have had to build something (or to wreck somebody else's something) on the double hush-hush & there were really bad consequences for buggering it up. Great Escape type stuff, Stalag 13 I See Nothing!, ODA work etc.

I am thinking this will be a fun hobby... my little babies are on day 12 under T5, so I need to be mach schnelling with the Bob The Builder shit. I have another weekend babysitting the 5yo so things are jamming back up again, but we'll be able to fire one room up I hope.
 
U

UnpossibleOne

Member
I have a question pertaining to cooling my lamps. With the fan PULLING the hot air out of the sealed hoods, should the hood be oriented with the air going at the bulb first or the socket first? I would think it would be a bunch less restriction with the airflow going first past the (blunt & rounded) bulb tip vs the flat back side of the bulb socket. Once I sort that out, I can seal up that hood more permanently :idea:

The bloom room lacks a few more items I need to finish: Install the exhaust filter, create an inner 'tarp + panda + diamond foil "tent zipper door" and fit up the outer door. I know I want to make a last-minute bomb run through with silicone clear sealant, white caulk & paint on any obvious leaks, loose film & paint chips, then see about firing it up & check temps.

FWIW I ran that band of 2x2 around 3 walls at 36" from the floor, and 8" spacing on the hooks. The walls are 72" X 64" so that worked well.

The grow room is a little back behind, but not far: Panda on the ceiling, diamond foil on the walls, caulk & seal, permanently fix lamp hood, exhaust filter, and get an adapter plug & 240v power cord for one of the ballasts (somehow I ended up with two Lumatek 1Ks with different output plugs FML it's always something!)

We are still on target to have my babies going 12/12 in the bloom room NLT 4-20. They've been on T5 veg mode since 3-24, on about their 4th node? & "tight"! Despite my best efforts to kill them with lime burn, they appear to be doing okay.

Thank you for your help!
 
phillipchristian

phillipchristian

New Member
UnpossibleOne said:
I have a question pertaining to cooling my lamps. With the fan PULLING the hot air out of the sealed hoods, should the hood be oriented with the air going at the bulb first or the socket first? I would think it would be a bunch less restriction with the airflow going first past the (blunt & rounded) bulb tip vs the flat back side of the bulb socket. Once I sort that out, I can seal up that hood more permanently :idea:

The bloom room lacks a few more items I need to finish: Install the exhaust filter, create an inner 'tarp + panda + diamond foil "tent zipper door" and fit up the outer door. I know I want to make a last-minute bomb run through with silicone clear sealant, white caulk & paint on any obvious leaks, loose film & paint chips, then see about firing it up & check temps.

FWIW I ran that band of 2x2 around 3 walls at 36" from the floor, and 8" spacing on the hooks. The walls are 72" X 64" so that worked well.

The grow room is a little back behind, but not far: Panda on the ceiling, diamond foil on the walls, caulk & seal, permanently fix lamp hood, exhaust filter, and get an adapter plug & 240v power cord for one of the ballasts (somehow I ended up with two Lumatek 1Ks with different output plugs FML it's always something!)

We are still on target to have my babies going 12/12 in the bloom room NLT 4-20. They've been on T5 veg mode since 3-24, on about their 4th node? & "tight"! Despite my best efforts to kill them with lime burn, they appear to be doing okay.

Thank you for your help!
Click to expand...
Hey bud, hope all is well.

Good question about the orientation of the hood. I have honestly never heard anyone discuss the topic but I think your logic makes sense. Plus, pulling from the bulb side probably creates a little negative pressure in the hood as there is less air restriction than the socket side. Granted it probably doesn't matter.
 
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UnpossibleOne

Member
Things are well Phillip, thanks!

Since the other ballast lacks parts, all I could do was light off the 1k HPS in the bloom room. I ran the 8" fan for a couple hours and saw temperatures around 69-70°F and 58-65% RH.

With the lamp lit for 2.5 hours and the outer door "mostly" closed (needs shaved some more this morning), and with no additional air movement within the room, the exhaust air went up to 77°F and the RH unchanged. Inside the room, I suspended the remote thermocouple probe about a foot below the hood glass and it reached 80°. The bulb is maybe another 4-6" above the glass, centered in the hood. I could lay the back of my hand on the glass and it was very warm, but not instantly painful. I'm still not set on where in the hood the bulb needs to be, but as it sits, I think we can work with it! :D

RH is a concern, mainly in the bloom room, but I will get a suitable dehumidifier if necessary.

Thanks!
 
phillipchristian

phillipchristian

New Member
UnpossibleOne said:
Things are well Phillip, thanks!

Since the other ballast lacks parts, all I could do was light off the 1k HPS in the bloom room. I ran the 8" fan for a couple hours and saw temperatures around 69-70°F and 58-65% RH.

With the lamp lit for 2.5 hours and the outer door "mostly" closed (needs shaved some more this morning), and with no additional air movement within the room, the exhaust air went up to 77°F and the RH unchanged. Inside the room, I suspended the remote thermocouple probe about a foot below the hood glass and it reached 80°. The bulb is maybe another 4-6" above the glass, centered in the hood. I could lay the back of my hand on the glass and it was very warm, but not instantly painful. I'm still not set on where in the hood the bulb needs to be, but as it sits, I think we can work with it! :D

RH is a concern, mainly in the bloom room, but I will get a suitable dehumidifier if necessary.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Sound like you have it dialed in man. If you are using Co2 you actually want your temps around 84 on your plants but I don't think you are using it. Besides that man you are doing great. just get your humidity down to 45% if you can then down to 35% or as low as your dehumidifier will go for the last 2 weeks. This will help with trichrome production and reduce your drying time. It will also help fisht off mold and mildew which are common late in flower.

Keep up the good work.
 
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UnpossibleOne

Member
Okay this week we got a curve ball when our 34yo 200 amp panel took a shit... We were getting bad juju/dimming & 120v bulbs popping for awhile, not due to anything I'm doing, just aging & corrosion took it out. Thankfully without a fire or serious disruption.

So we have fresh & new from where the incoming service wire hits the house on the 2d story, new meter box, new Siemens panel with some open slots. FML but it's all happy now. There were a couple of circuits the electrician 'couldn't get to, to label the panel'

That odd sound you may have heard at 1600 EST 4-18 was my head exploding :shock: when I realized there would be an electrician in my house for a day or more, admiring my handywork and craftsmanship in all those recently installed & caulked 120v & 240v outlets, lamps, ducts, wall mounted ballasts, CO2 tanks, chrome-ass bugeye foil all over etc...

I told wifey if my rooms were compromised, just play dumbfounded and say "I asked him to build me a greenhouse, he said he'd have one by Mothers Day." :-D <-blue-eyed redhead smile. Tomorrow Her Highness gets a steak dinner at the best restaurant in town for putting up with my crazy ass.

TGF no issues, or need for them to root around in my cellar, they wrapped it up this afternoon and I am GTG to light the fuse on both rooms, once I seal them up and get the purge timing sorted. bongsmilie I can breathe now.

Phillip I will be using CO2 enrichment, eventually (last step) and I know I need a dehumidifier in the bloom room. There is more testing to be done with temps with both rooms lit up, but we're getting it.
 
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UnpossibleOne

Member
Well I just got to wake the little babies up @ 0600. The CO2 and light timers were a couple minutes off, so I got those synched up for now. Temperatures with the MH bulb & smaller hood are similar to what I saw with the HPS and 8" hood.

I have the bloom room done & the growing room is mostly completed... I need to finish the exhaust & filter system, and hang zip-up "tent" inner doors for both rooms yet, but had to get the babies transplanted and moved under a big light ASAP.

Hopefully things will go along smoothly this afternoon, and we can call the construction part of the project done. Move into the fine tuning and adjustments phase.

Thanks for all your help and wisdom. :mrgreen: Y'all helped keep me on the path, for this leg of the journey anyhow, and that is usually unpossible.
 
Phatman

Phatman

Member
I live in England so my my room was hush hush and i know where you are coming from with the "hold that while i drill it" lol
Also getting copius amounts of timber into a flat was a nightmare at 3 in the morning near a busy main road :)

Have fun, Phatman
 
U

UnpossibleOne

Member
SelfDutchOven said:
You might want to start brewing your beer to cut cost hahaha.. i bet that bloom room is kick ass!!
Click to expand...
Bloom Room 6x5.5 1kw HPS.jpg1100 watts of HPS Fuckyeah.jpgLet me introduce you to my little friend.jpgLady of the Garden.jpgGrow Room 6x3.5 1kw MH.jpg

LMAO The only reason I went in the basement with any vigor this spring was to eyeball and begin to fish out the pool shit. About that time, Mrs Unpossible began a rant about me "needing a hobby". And I found that toad in my old abandoned-after-3/4 season grow room. Hahaha! I got her fucking hobby! I have thought about putting in a homebrew setup down there too LOL. When I replace the hot water heater, Imma put in a sink and that will be a start. That would be two hobbies? I think. A Bridge Too Far maybe?
 
U

UnpossibleOne

Member
Okay an update for 5-20-2012. I have had a recent HDD issue, so all my earlier digital construction pix, notes, and grow notes are in purgatory. Backup more often...

Since the last update, all I've done is add a large (70pt) 120v dehumidifier, and grafted on some exhaust duct for it. I shall scab it into the carbon exh. filter when I ever get that finished. LMAO the girls got really hot and steamy for me before the dehumidifer went on-line. LOL 90% RH FML! Then pre-ducting, the de-hum. saw them up to 104°F. Colon to Mojave. Oops :shock:

Things are lots happier now, except for drainage and exhaust. After this test-grow, I will have to address the run-off issue. After a week of toting recovered water out like Jack & Jill, I tied the condensate run-off to one of the existing floor drains (first time used in 30 years - it worked hooray!) I shall empty the room after harvest, and slope the floor down like a shower stall to the drain. Maybe tile it like I mentioned in a post above? Something needs done bad, but I can live another 30-45 days until. Hoovering up a bog 2x week is no joy though.

That 2"x2" rail at 36" with the 8" hook spacing? Yeah it's working fucking great, to hook a careless boy right about the spare-tire region. I can fight like a prize-winning marlin :o Fish On! The little girls learned many new words this day! LST has nothing on HLF (hooked like fish). FML!

Here's some pix from this morning. Pardon the HPS butterscotch tint. These are from seed first wet on 3-20-12, turned lights to 12/12 on 4-26-12, ProMix BX + Fox Farms liquid nutes.

5-20-12 Island Sweet Skunk - BC Seed King.jpg5-20-12 Medicine Man 2 - Mr Nice - Short little babydoll.jpg5-20-12 Mr Nice Medicine Man.jpg5-20-12 Past 24hrs 77F-45rh Min 85F-55rh Max.jpg
 
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