Get a Harvest Every 2 Weeks

[Al B. Fuct]

I don't know how he tolerates it.

How? Usually by rolling my eyes at about 60rpm.

I pretty obviously don't mind people asking questions. Every query I answer increases my own understanding, particularly when I have to do a bit of research to flesh out a complete and cogent answer.

However- I DO mind when someone fairly obviously hasn't read post #1 (i.e. misses a basic concept like flowering clones right after setting root, suggests vegging clones for a cpl wks before flowering, etc) or when my (usually) well considered answers are rejected on utterly specious reasoning like "X just feels right to me." Those are good for 10% faster eye-rolling.

I have put YEARS into working this system out. I don't FEEL anything about my op- I research, try stuff, use it if it works, change it if it doesn't. If there's no science in an idea, I won't bother with it. I am a sceptic to the core (on nearly everything). I have to prove things to myself all the time, notably if I am starting with information like salesmans' claims.

Critical thinking is a life tool that will serve anyone well. You have to be able to discern between persuasion and information. If someone is trying to persuade you, they have a reason for doing so. If their reasoning is neither logical nor based in known science and independent replicatability, they're probably selling you something. However, I know that critical analysis can make me seem unnecessarily negative sometimes. I try to see the upsides and downsides when considering my commentary.

i admit after my first ? i was apprehensive as to the person al was but after reading THE WHOLE FUCKIN thread i realized he had answered most ?s a thousand times and he was showing a CERTAIN op not the one you are interested in, and that HE IN FACT DOESNT OWE any of us anyfuckingthing. so i came back correct and am about 2 weeks from pulling clones and 12 weeks from perpetual growth, not to mention i told you how to plant yourself a couple the way YOU INSIST upon. and still maintain a perpetual growth...its your fault you cant find the information provided in this cornocopia of info to use to your advantage!!! not als or anyone elses. even if he didnt give the answer you wanted you could get valuble info to apply to your way of growth here!

I absolutely admit a large amount of sympathy for anyone looking for specific information- this thread isn't just 1000 posts long- it's more than 1700 posts long, 170-odd pages. Even I can't find some things that I've written in the past (though I'll obviously have a better chance of finding something than anyone else will). It is a big ask to get someone to read it all. I repeat things out of courtesy.

However, the vast majority of the thread is pretty good value for the effort expended, even if you have to plod through it over a week or so. Moreover, once you've read the lot, you are on the same page as everyone else. But come on, page 1 isn't hard to tough your way through. Post #1 really is required reading, even if you then skip to page 170. It's always obvious to me when someone hasn't covered the basics. I try to be kind when referring someone back to the basics. I rarely go ad hominem on people, attacking the person instead of the issue. However, my patience is not without limits. I have no problem with mocking willful stupidity, where gentler means have failed. I have no patience at all for people who rely on wives' tales and regard them with the same reverence as peer-reviewed (independently replicated) methods.

A discussion forum is pretty obviously a good way to discuss information, but not a very good way to archive it for easily searchable future reference. I've thought about doing a FAQ entry where all the pertinent data is compiled. I've also thought about having admin close this thread and let me start it over again. There's got to be a better way- I just haven't found it yet. I'm leaning toward the FAQ entry, provided I can get in and edit it myself as needed without bothering admin about it.

This thread isn't really intended for grass-green newbs but I try to make space for them as well. I do so more patiently at some times than others, but we're all human. I work with the presumption that the reader has a certain amount of basic knowledge, such as the life cycle of cannabis.

Now... back to our regularly scheduled programming....

i remember you Al sayin 1 litre + is good

Yep, for the small size of the plants that we grow in SoG, a litre's worth of rootmass space is generally sufficient. Bear in mind that allowing such a small rootmass space means they won't have a lot of moisture in reserve in case of a pump failure, particularly if one is using a non-absorbent medium like clay pellets.

been reading your 1000 post thread. too bad some of the comments.

just wanted to put my 2 cents in... and say thanks, Al.

i have gotten great info from this thread and come back often to reread it.

i like your idea of being able to do this operation with any number of plants.

i do plan on copying you as much as i can to have a nice rotation.

since i am a noob, and having just worked out a bunch of "kinks" to this hydro growing, i am definitely ready for some good quality fems to get into this well explained SOG rotation.

but again just wanted to say thanks for the info and dont let the buggers get to ya. always a few bad apples on the tree.

Thanks for that, mb. It's comments like yours that keep me doing this. My primary motivation is to help folks grow dope without having to navigate all the learning curves I've skidded through. My payday comes when someone gets an op cranking out buds regularly.

I started growing dope about 20 years ago and started using cannabis forums around 1995. Interactive internet forums are a GREAT help to dope growers, much more useful than writing a letter to 'Ask Ed,' where he had 12 columns a year in HT and a limited amount of space to reply and no capacity to clarify questions with the person inquiring. I wasn't exactly a total noob when I started using forums, but there's no question that I owe them an awful lot. My op at present is absolutely based in information obtained from pot forums- but to use a popular phrase, if I have seen further than others, it is because I have stood upon the shoulders of giants. This thread is me paying back what I owe to the online dope growing community.

I know he isn't bothered by all of the haters.. he has reassurance every two weeks!

Fortunately, there's not too many haters. Every once in a while, I get a malcontent. I don't spend much time on them. I use the ignore function. But yeah, nothing ever happens that a couple of cones won't cure.

Hey AL, I had a couple questions... I have been reading a ton and I was wondering if these are some good ideas.

I was planning on using some sliding glass patio doors for the doors to my room, and do you think that PVC would be a good alternative to the dryer vent tubing that everyone uses for venting? I figured the PVC would insulate the scent better, as would some sliding glass patio doors.

One other question. you want the exhaust to suck harder than the intake right (example exhaust=200 cfm, and intake 175 cfm?) , so there isn't any smell being force out through the cracks?

I'm getting about 1000$ next week, and plan to gather supplies Thanks president douche bag, that stimulous check is going to good use.

heh, President Douchebag.

Patio doors seem like a lot more than would generally be needed, but because everyone's grow op installation will necessarily be different, it might be the best thing for you.

A grow room can be as simple as a panda film tent in the middle of a garage, spare bedroom, basement, etc. The less climate control available in the space, the more you will have to provide it when building the room. In only one example, it's probably not practical for someone in International Falls, Minnesota (or any other place where temps are subfreezing for a big chunk of the year) to use a garage as they would have to build a fully heated and insulated area within it. Attics are very hard to use because of heat, accessibility issues for watering and daily maintenance and also the potential for water damage from spills to the ceiling below.

PVC pipe is terrific for use as vent duct as it would present low airflow resistance for long straight runs, particularly compared to flexible duct. However, PVC pipe is BLOODY expensive in the large diameters needed for vent duct. We're talking a minimum 150mm dia and as much as 300mm. I can't even get anything bigger than 150mm at my local hdwe (yep, I've looked)- I'd be seeking a plumbing and drainage supply house.

Yep, the volumetric capacity of the exhaust should be somewhat greater than that of the intake. Intakes should have a combined CFM capacity of around 80-90% of the exhaust. As you have correctly cited (thank you for reading the thread ), this keeps the room at a slightly negative pressure, sucking air in through gaps in construction and putting all scents down the exhaust line.

You can also put a motor speed controller (MSC) set for about 20-30% of max speed in parallel with your exhaust blower's thermostat. When the tstat shuts off, the fan is still supplied with voltage from the MSC. Instead of shutting off, the fan just falls back to the speed that the MSC is set for.

The fan/s do run all the time, but this is actually easier on fan motors than starting and stopping them. It also keeps a constant flow of air going down the exhaust line, through your carbon filter if you use one. This stops scents wafting out of your op when fans are off. A fan running at low speed will be very quiet, almost inaudible when there's a filter at the end of the line.

 

[Al B. Fuct]

noob dont mean shit k

That's absolutely true. Someone with no experience whatsoever can easily and successfully grow weed if they find a good example of a productive, working op and simply mimic it. Treat it like a recipe.

Experience is what helps you sort out problems as they happen- and they will, so you need to know the common pitfalls of whatever style of grow you do wind up using.

 

[Wesley1Pipes]

Hey Al, aka Dick - I've read most of your posts and you are now my idol. (Along with Chuck Norris) But I must ask- how would SoG work without trimming the bottom 1/3 of the plant??? JUST JOKING and you should completely ignore people who read your advice and accept it, but then question every aspect of it...

 

[Al B. Fuct]

heh, thanks for that W1P.

Unfortunately, I would absolutely shit the Chuckster to tears. I'm from the other end of the political spectrum. Chick calls people like me 'liberals' as though it's an insult, whilst we self-admitted liberals (who now call ourselves 'progressives') stifle belly laffs.

I've given some thought to changing my username to 'Al B. A. Dick.'

 

[GoodFriend]

I've given some thought to changing my username to 'Al B. A. Dick.'

... have you ever used any other names, or have you always been FUCT?

 

[hornedfrog2000]

I think I'm almost to the point of trial and error. Thank you for all the info. Although I have only read about half of this thread, I have probably searched/researched it for 20 hours. Thanks again.

Edit:

I have learned how to make cool tubes.

How to make a sog system.

Went on to find out exactly how to make a Flood table system.

Negative pressures importance.

What type of fans to use.

Decided what strain I will try first (White/Rhino)

How to make a fast bud dryer.

The importance of knowing how your home is wired, and why you might not want to burn it down .

O3 generators/carbon filters, and how to utilize them.

How to clone.

Why im going to buy a R/O system.

PPM.

Heh, if you need someone to make the chapter names for your book hit me up lol.



There is much more stuff I have learned from this thread, But I can't remember it right now . Keep it going, and I'll keep stemming my knowledge from this base.

 

[stickyicky77]

Hey AL, my clones are just about rooted in the 3" rock wool cubes and will probably be ready to put in my table this weekend. I know that you said to put them 1/2" above the flood level which will cause the roots to grow down into the flood level. My question is shouldn't the rock wool cubes be completely flooded to get oxygenated nutes into the cubes and to flush them out to prevent salt build up and nute lock out ?

 

[Al B. Fuct]

... have you ever used any other names, or have you always been FUCT?

I've been Fuct for a couple of years now. I was known by another username when I was a Mentor on Overgrow.com. I've retired that username for security purposes. I've registered Al B. Fuct on several of the larger cannabis boards. If you see an Al B Fuct elsewhere, chances are it's me.

I think I'm almost to the point of trial and error. Thank you for all the info.

No worries, thanks for the list! We do cover a range of things around here.

Why im going to buy a R/O system.

You are? Why?

If your only source of water is from a nearby creek or rainwater tanks, I could see it. If you're on municipal water, it's not necessary.

My question is shouldn't the rock wool cubes be completely flooded

No- and if you read the part about why the cubes should be 1/2" above the flood level, you ought to know why, too!

Pellets will want flooding about 3x a day. If you saturate your RW cube 3x/day with a small plant in it, you'll drown the roots inside the cube. You'll see overwatering symptoms (droopy leaves, yellowing/dropping lower leaves, slow growth) in about 7-10 days.

Once the cube goes into the pellets, it's all but extraneous. Its job was to provide a damp, humid area to generate first roots. Once that's done and the roots are popping out of the bottom of the cube, we want the roots to seek down into the pellets, where there's lots of airspaces, so we can flood them often with oxygenated nutes.

Can't flood often in RW because it is so very absorbent. It will allow water to wick up and drive all air out of the material. Once the roots are in the pellets, you can flood really quite frequently.

Short answer is no- the cube absolutely should not be flooded, especially not 3x/day. You can handwater the pellets around the cube (NOT the cube) for the first week after planting in pellets. After then, it should be OK on its own. You'll know for sure all is well when you see roots out of the drain holes of your pots of pellets.

3" cubes are too big. Try the 40mm cubes next time. The large cubes hold too much water. Ideally, you're looking for a properly damp (never wet or saturated) cube on a heat mat to lose about half its water weight in 24h. That's about the amount of time dissolved oxygen will remain in solution. If you can only water every few days, as I would expect would be the case for a cutting in a 3" cube, the dissolved O2 will be long gone by the time you can safely water again. This will contribute to slow rooting times and stem rot. You will get first roots out of the bottom of a 40mm cube in about 5-7 days if all goes well. If it takes longer, something wasn't sterile or the RW was kept too wet. A dry 40mm cube weighs 5g. When just damp and not wet, it will weigh 20-25g. Heavier is too wet.

 

[stickyicky77]

I've been Fuct for a couple of years now. I was known by another username when I was a Mentor on Overgrow.com. I've retired that username for security purposes. I've registered Al B. Fuct on several of the larger cannabis boards. If you see an Al B Fuct elsewhere, chances are it's me.



No worries, thanks for the list! We do cover a range of things around here.

You are? Why?

If your only source of water is from a nearby creek or rainwater tanks, I could see it. If you're on municipal water, it's not necessary.



No- and if you read the part about why the cubes should be 1/2" above the flood level, you ought to know why, too!

Pellets will want flooding about 3x a day. If you saturate your RW cube 3x/day with a small plant in it, you'll drown the roots inside the cube. You'll see overwatering symptoms (droopy leaves, yellowing/dropping lower leaves, slow growth) in about 7-10 days.

Once the cube goes into the pellets, it's all but extraneous. Its job was to provide a damp, humid area to generate first roots. Once that's done and the roots are popping out of the bottom of the cube, we want the roots to seek down into the pellets, where there's lots of airspaces, so we can flood them often with oxygenated nutes.

Can't flood often in RW because it is so very absorbent. It will allow water to wick up and drive all air out of the material. Once the roots are in the pellets, you can flood really quite frequently.

Short answer is no- the cube absolutely should not be flooded, especially not 3x/day. You can handwater the pellets around the cube (NOT the cube) for the first week after planting in pellets. After then, it should be OK on its own. You'll know for sure all is well when you see roots out of the drain holes of your pots of pellets.

3" cubes are too big. Try the 40mm cubes next time. The large cubes hold too much water. Ideally, you're looking for a properly damp (never wet or saturated) cube on a heat mat to lose about half its water weight in 24h. That's about the amount of time dissolved oxygen will remain in solution. If you can only water every few days, as I would expect would be the case for a cutting in a 3" cube, the dissolved O2 will be long gone by the time you can safely water again. This will contribute to slow rooting times and stem rot. You will get first roots out of the bottom of a 40mm cube in about 5-7 days if all goes well. If it takes longer, something wasn't sterile or the RW was kept too wet. A dry 40mm cube weighs 5g. When just damp and not wet, it will weigh 20-25g. Heavier is too wet.

I stared them in small 1.5" cubes and then transplanted them into the 3" cubes. The reason i put them in the 3" cubes is because if something ever goes wrong with my pump or a power outage, they will hold enough nutes to hopefully keep them alive until the problem is discovered. The 3" cubes also give them a bit more stability and the 1.5" cubes do not hold that much moisture. Will salts build up with the cubes being right above the flood level and will in need to flush by handwatering ?

 

[Al B. Fuct]

I stared them in small 1.5" cubes and then transplanted them into the 3" cubes. The reason i put them in the 3" cubes is because if something ever goes wrong with my pump or a power outage, they will hold enough nutes to hopefully keep them alive until the problem is discovered. The 3" cubes also give them a bit more stability and the 1.5" cubes do not hold that much moisture.

OK, I see what you're up to. However, if your rockwool ends up below the flood level, you'll have to flood it like a pot of RW floc ie 1x/day. You won't be able to flood as often as when you are flooding only roots in pellets.

If you put your RW above the floodline, once the roots are in the pellets, they can be flooded 3x day or more.

Will salts build up with the cubes being right above the flood level and will in need to flush by handwatering ?

You should have about 25mm of always dry pellets above the floodline. This will reduce the direct water evaporation from the damp pellets below them. Evaporation reduction, keeping the pellets damp, will reduce the accumulation of crystallised nute salts at that line.

However, the accumulation of nute salts at that level isn't really worrying- your roots will be seeking the bottom of the pot. They won't really care what's going on a couple inches above them.

 

[Wesley1Pipes]

Hey Al I've read your pros and cons on rockwool+hydroton vs fytocell+rockwool but was wondering which you would use in a small sog op??? I want to use fytocell but will have to order it online. I've been growing oh about 3 weeks and learned about fytocell from you but when I inquired about it at my local hydro shop they hadn't even heard of it. Basically, is it worth it to order it online?

 

[Mrgrow626]

Hey Al B i decided instead of hydrotonrocks im going to use those mini RW cubes as my medium, And put the clones straight into the cubes from my aero cloner.
How often do you think i should flood with them? And since i dont have a big RW cube can i flood to the top of the tray? Thanks

 

[stamb]

subscribe...

 

[rdgx34]

Hi Al

I went to the store and they told me the batwing reflector cant be cooled is that true?

 

[cmak40]

THE WING BY ITSELF CANNOT BE COOLED!!! you buy that (if the price is rite!) then buy a cooltube and attach that to the cooltube...

 

[DrGreenFinger]

excellent work!

 

[Al B. Fuct]

Hey Al I've read your pros and cons on rockwool+hydroton vs fytocell+rockwool but was wondering which you would use in a small sog op??? I want to use fytocell but will have to order it online. I've been growing oh about 3 weeks and learned about fytocell from you but when I inquired about it at my local hydro shop they hadn't even heard of it. Basically, is it worth it to order it online?

I think I'd quickly get tired of having to mail order media. Ask your local hydro shop if they will order you a couple bags of Fytocell. It's not that exxy when you buy it off the shelf, about $30-35 per 100L bag, takes about 2.5-3L per pot. If in the US, ask your local shop contact Fytogreen's USA representative:

New Age Gardening have been appointed the US Distributor for Fytocell. Their contact details are as follows:
[email protected], Ph (562) 789 0345, Fax (562) 789 8479

The purpose of the 50mm of rockwool floc I pack in the bottom of each pot is to prevent the Fytocell crumbs from falling out and also to keep the pots from floating.

There's no reason to use floc in the pot bottoms with pellets. Pellets won't float and can't fall out of common-sized pot drain holes.

If I were you, I might buy a bag of RW floc and some Perlite. Perlite won't (usually) float but it will fall out of the pot drain holes. Packing about 25mm of floc in each pot will keep the Perlite in the pots.

Hey Al B i decided instead of hydrotonrocks im going to use those mini RW cubes as my medium, And put the clones straight into the cubes from my aero cloner.
How often do you think i should flood with them? And since i dont have a big RW cube can i flood to the top of the tray? Thanks

The mini cubes could be a good alternative. I have not used those, but I suspect the watering schedule will be similar to pots packed only with RW floc, 1x/day for 175mm pots, perhaps 2x/day from wks 4-8.

Your flood level won't be quite to the top of the tray- the level will stop at the overflow tube height, which is about 50-70mm above the tray floor.

RW is so absorbent that you won't really have to flood to the overflow level to adequately water the stuff. If you set your timer to shut off once the flood level is at about 50mm, that ought to do.

Use a digital timer on your pump so you can program runtimes in 1 minute increments. Mechanical timers usually don't let you have shorter than 15 minute runtimes.

Hi Al

I went to the store and they told me the batwing reflector cant be cooled is that true?

Well, not unless you hang a cooltube from it!

Print off a copy of these imgs and see if they still think it's impossible!

I'd think they'd be falling all over themselves to sell you a batwing shade and a reflectorless cooltube to fit to it.

Be nice to your local hydro shop counter people, but consider this- if they really had a lot on the ball, do you think they'd be tending the counter in a hydro shop? I'd think they'd be running a productive grow op instead. You find similar numbers of competent BSEEs working the counter at your local Tandy/Shadio Rack...

excellent work!

Thanks for that.

 

[brontobrandon1]

hey al i was wondering i saw the hose you used for your cool tube i got that one on accident instead of the insulated softer one, i was wondering does that one you have not get to hot? im gonna hook it up now i see you have it haha well lemme now bro


peace

 

[cmak40]

i have the same along with as much HARD STRAIGHT pipe as possble for my tubes and the air coming out when 2 600s and 1 1000 are on is 31.7'C. the duct and cooltube themselves do not get that hot. i can touch my cooltube with the 1000 heated up and its just maybe above warm to the touch(almost hotter 6"away) and the duct doesnt even get warm. i think al has a pik of himself touching his hot cooltubed 1000 chek it

 

[Al B. Fuct]

hey al i was wondering i saw the hose you used for your cool tube i got that one on accident instead of the insulated softer one, i was wondering does that one you have not get to hot? im gonna hook it up now i see you have it haha well lemme now bro

The air going through my cooltubes never really gets all that hot. My pair of cooltubes with 1000HPS are mounted in series. The exhaust from each cooltube is about 6C higher than the intake, so if the intake air is at 18C, the exhaust from cooltube #1 will be about 24C, which is then fed into cooltube #2. When it comes out of cooltube #2, it will be about 30C.

The warmest I have ever seen the exhaust air is 36C (96.8F), when the intake air was at 24C. That's getting kinda warm but should not bother most plastics used in flexible duct, which should be OK up to about 50-60C (122-140F).

I bought the aluminium range hood type duct because it was easily available- but it sure wasn't cheap. $40 for a '3m' (expanded length) section. Unexpanded, it's about 1.8m.

It does not tolerate frequent flexing well if it has been stretched out/expanded. It can be moved/flexed quite a lot with no cracking or breakage if not stretched out. I used unexpanded, full lengths of the stuff for the input run to CT#1 and from the outlet of CT#2 but an expanded length between them as I expected to move both lights up and down pretty much together. This was a mistake- I should have used an unexpanded length between the tubes to permit motion of each lamp independently without stressing that piece. I could have done the inlet and exhaust runs with one full piece if I had stretched it out, but I think it would have torn or cracked at the hoseclamp points with frequent vertical height adjustments if I had.

In the long run, the aluminium range hood duct, if not stretched out, will outlast the plastic flexiduct, which I suspect isn't made of UV stabilised plastics- why would it be? It's not intended for outdoor use.