Where Did The Money Go? The Obama Stimulus
- Thread starter mame
- Start date
Wolf Creek isn't a very good example, it started leaking in 1968, perhaps we can blame all the money spending on the Apollo moon landing as the Cause? In essence Why not point the Finger at Kennedy? The Federal Government hasn't spent jack on infrastructure since Eisenhower. I agree that infrastructure needs to be rebuilt in this country 100%!!!! But it shouldn't come during a recession with borrowed funds that will have interest payments attached. We should do the spending with money we saved up, but this nation is a nation of spenders not savers now that we have Fiat money, an ever inflating currency system perpetrated on Debt and not capital. The big depression was caused by TBTF banks making bad bad bets, all the spending was done to keep them afloat, it wasn't to help you or me or anyone who wasn't part of the banking system, they don't give a shit if your road has car size potholes, they have helicopters to take them back and forth from work. No potholes in the sky.
I agree with you that States do get money from the Feds for discretionary spending, which may include levee and dike reapirs, but it is NOT the feds who are taking the bids and hiring the contractors and it is NOT the US Army Corps of Engineers and the water control manual that is the authority who has control over them. The feds MAY take over certain projects due to FEMA funds and the declaration of Emergency, but that is something completely separate.
Fiscal expansion IS Monetary Expansion. There is no money saved out there, its all debt now, we have been off the gold standard for 2 generations now. If you want money you MUST take a loan out for it. There is NO OTHER WAY (Except counterfeiting) to create money in a fiat system!!!!! Fiscal expansion is impossible without Monetary expansion, where would the money come from?
For those who might be confused about CORE of Engineers, and CORPS of Engineers, don't feel bad, its an easy mistake. At least you aren't dead!! Army Corpse of Engineers!!! Obama kind of Gafs this a couple of times, damned Teleprompters always spelling things right and all.
[video=youtube;ZlKIfzoC8D0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlKIfzoC8D0[/video]
mame
Well-Known Member
Is this even realistic in the current situation though? We are going to have to continue to borrow even more as long as we remain below capacity and if we are going to have to borrow we might as well use that money towards things that will set the U.S. up to pay off it's debts... Full employment, and the revenues that come with it even if it's acheived via borrowing in the short term, is an important step in ensuring long term fiscal stability.
I mean, I agree to an extent that our nation has become reliant on debt and that something needs done; In the decade running up to the 08 crisis private debt in the U.S. went from ~96% to ~128% of household income... But the deleveraging is going to take several years and the loss of human capital in that time will only serve to worsen our fiscal situation as well as further contract demand. Without large fiscal stimulus the U.S. will not be in a position to correct it's past mistakes let alone solve our current problems (JOBS)... There are over 1 million unemployed construction workers ATM and interest rates are as low as they're gonna go, the time to borrow & invest in infrastructure is now.
Qvomos
Member
The overall military budget for all the agencies which include National Defense, Pentagon, all 4 branches of the armed forces, plus inland and foreign bases, plus all the expenditure of with ATF, Homeland Security, secret operations by all branches and all the other Mickey and Mouse operations and wars and God knows what else, amounts to a whopping sum of around.... drum roll... 70 trillion dollars a year all in fiat money. Dispute me on that, I dare you, but do your homework first and bring a calculator/ We are not going broke people. A Ponzi scheme which that's what this is, only goes bad IF one of the parties pulls out of the deal and starts bitching no more. So far, We the People - just like the Madoff victims and "willing participants" through our beautiful Congress and FED.
I understand the point you are trying to make, that if we invest now when interest rates are so low it will save us alot of money over the long term vs having to borrow later at higher rates. It makes no difference when you borrow in a fiat money system, at some point the system fails and nothing can save it, why do you think the Founders said only Gold and Silver are to be used? Why do you think the Definition of a "US Dollar" is a specific weight of Silver? They had seen this very same fiat mess happen many times throughout history, when given the power to create something that most people will value, and your only constraint is the amount of self control you have, well things tend to get corrupted almost from the start. If I had a goose that laid the golden egg (The Fed and oil priced only in US Dollars) I would fight tooth and nail not to have to cook it for dinner.
Your Paycheck is completely dependent on someone else going into debt. When people no longer will go into debt the system comes to a standstill. All the debt out there is far greater than all the money out there due to interest, that is why they must always inflate the system, to make up for the lag between principal being paid off and interest being paid off. They don't create the interest so it is a self feeding endless loop of debt which must always be serviced by ever larger sums of principal in order to service the interest payments, in reality loans must get bigger and bigger over time to make up for the interest payments that are due. Akin to a self fulfilling prophesy. In essence the system is designed so that the total debt can NEVER be paid and so the people become slaves to this debt, forever dependent on its issuance and ever dependent on its inflation. Too bad real life never works out the way they plan.
the 1 million construction workers won't lay idle forever, they will eventually learn a new trade or find employment doing something else...eventually when they are forced to do it or end up starving to death and living under a bridge. Its funny how starvation and living amongst the elements can be a real kick in the pants to get a fella motivated to find a solution to his problems. Perhaps if those construction workers had been aware that all things under the sun come to an end and had put away some of their money when it was feast for times when it was famine things would not be so terrible for them?
Responsibility for ones self is the base upon which any meaningful life is built upon.
londonfog
Well-Known Member
Ummmm the conversation was not about when it started crumbling..you made the statement that "you have never heard of ANY dams crumbling or falling apart..let me go get your qoute..
Now when I show for a fact that our dams do need repairs ( to this day they still have problems with wolf creek) you say its a bad example because of when it started to crumble..hmmm what happen to "I haven't heard of any DAMS crumbling."
..Guy its alright to be wrong... sometimes its the only way to learn..
Luger187
Well-Known Member
so this dam started leaking like 44 years ago? dont u think its time to fix it? i dont see a problem with investing in things like that so people can work.
isnt it cheaper to replace/rebuild/fix a levy beforehand than it is to replace/rebuild/fix a city it destroys when it breaks?
isnt it cheaper to replace/rebuild/fix a levy beforehand than it is to replace/rebuild/fix a city it destroys when it breaks?
JoeBlow300
Active Member
At least fix the potholes.
Until you said something about wolf creek I had not heard of any. Which makes what you quoted an UNDENIABLE FACT!!!!!Ummmm the conversation was not about when it started crumbling..you made the statement that "you have never heard of ANY dams crumbling or falling apart..let me go get your qoute..
Now when I show for a fact that our dams do need repairs ( to this day they still have problems with wolf creek) you say its a bad example because of when it started to crumble..hmmm what happen to "I haven't heard of any DAMS crumbling."
Guy its alright to be wrong... sometimes its the only way to learn..
BTW the reason I said Dams, is because the vast majority of them are under federal control and not a SINGLE LARGE DAM has yet to fail and release the torrents of water behind it due to maintenance reasons. In fact I could only find a SINGLE instance of any Dam under federal control that failed due to poor maintenance and it was a fairly small dam. Lawn Lake.
Most dam failures are caused by large amounts of rain fall exceeding the dams capacity, not caused by failure to tax the citizens at all.
Charlie Ventura
Active Member
Keynesianism works great! Lets see now, what's that national debt amount to?
Qvomos
Member
Charlie, with all due respect let rephrase your sentence a bit; Keynesianism WORKED great! In other words the subtle nibbling on their butts until they could complete push it all they way up their arses and they wouldn't hardly noticed that they were being fucked...
Because that is where we are now. No wonder their level of acceptance for the new order is so difficult to contest. The Fabian philosophy.
Because that is where we are now. No wonder their level of acceptance for the new order is so difficult to contest. The Fabian philosophy.
Charlie Ventura
Active Member
Right you are my constitutional republican friend. And wasn't that nibbling until the entire ass is eaten the goal of the Fabian socialists all along? A little bit here and a little bit there until the entire world is reshaped into their ideal of what the universe is to look like? Damn! Those squiggly new light bulbs will go great in my bathroom with its three-gallon flush toilet.
londonfog
Well-Known Member
Heres a tip to help with that 3 gallon toilet ...you really want that toilet at 1.6 gallons a flush...Right you are my constitutional republican friend. And wasn't that nibbling until the entire ass is eaten the goal of the Fabian socialists all along? A little bit here and a little bit there until the entire world is reshaped into their ideal of what the universe is to look like? Damn! Those squiggly new light bulbs will go great in my bathroom with its three-gallon flush toilet.
Step 1: FILL A 1/2 GALLON CONTAINER
fill up a half-gallon container and seal it shut.
Step 2: PLACE IT IN THE TANK
Put the container in your toilet's water tank.
You'll use less water in your tank and save water with every flush!
Step 3: DONE
Done. In one minute, you just saved 16% on your water bill and 7,500 gallons per year. Lets all do our part to save and make sure our kids kids have a place to live
Some folks shits are much bigger than others. Personally I need a 5 gallon one, otherwise I have to flush twice. BTW you aren't "Saving" water, water is not destroyed when you piss and shit in it, it can easily be turned back into 100% pure water by natures processes alone. And it will just one day fall out of the sky. I don't intend to give you the impression that we should all just let nature take care of our water, by all means treatment is necessary to try and keep the water somewhat sequestered so it will not comingle with the potable side. Of course thats why you pay for water in the first place, but some of us only pay for well maintenance and self treatment. We are our own water treatment plant. Then there are some of us who just collect it when it falls out of the sky.
BTW whats the math you used to come up with the 16% savings on the water bill?
beardo
Well-Known Member
I don't understand how we let all our waste water and river water go into the ocean instead of using it to saturate the ground to raise the water table or creating huge lakes or storage facilities.
londonfog
Well-Known Member
WTF...so you telling me that you use 5 gallons of water each and every time you flush ?????Hell most homes don't need more then 2 gallons... Wow are you guys waiting until the end of the day to make a first and final flush
Do you guys shit elephant dung..Damn guy whats been up your ass for so much shit to come out??? Do you realize how you look trying to show me wrong...You see advice on how to save on your water bill instead of using it or passing it on ...you come out your neck with "I need 5 gallons to flush" 
WTF Drama..ok continue doing what you do, but it would make sense to try it and if you need to flush twice ( which I doubt) you can...Do you need 5 gallons when you pee....????then why waste it...again most homes don't even need 2 gallons to flush...You're a real character guy...Don't worry about the math I see you only want to TRY to argue shit even if it helps you...Tell you what.. just to show how wrong I am go flush your toilet 100 times in a row that will show me...some just want to remain "Stuck on Stupid" and you are full of shit..literallyseeing how you need 5 gallons to flush
londonfog
Well-Known Member
You have to flush 100 times everyday for a month then you will see
...but anyway...I'm using my winter bill for my math... for the summer is different due to pool being drained and filled and from lawn care (watering)..but on the norm my water bill used to be about 142-145 before putting 2 liter bottles in ALL my toilet tanks...Now it comes in at 120-123...by my math that averages around 16% give or take 1-2%..