switching between hps and mh durring bloom.

Trunk5

Well-Known Member
the question was brought up to me tonight by a fellow grower and im not sure of the answer. now i know durring bloom hps light is preferd for the process because it makes bigger buds but useing the blue spectrum of mh makes for better tricome growth. now heres the question while useing the hps for flower if you switch the bulb out say one or two days a week with the mh bulb will it help the tricome production and keep the yield of useing hps?
 

motoracer110

Well-Known Member
just stick with the HPS for flower that spectrum of lighting will get you dank thick buds, you do not want airy weed. tri's are affected mostly by the nutrients that you use. if you were to switch back and forth every week you would stress the plant and could stunt the bud production a lot. the name of the game is to keep thing as constant as you can. doing too much will actually hurt the plants. GL m8 you will benefit way more by just using HPS for flower.
 

bloomfields

Active Member
just stick with the HPS for flower that spectrum of lighting will get you dank thick buds, you do not want airy weed. tri's are affected mostly by the nutrients that you use. if you were to switch back and forth every week you would stress the plant and could stunt the bud production a lot. the name of the game is to keep thing as constant as you can. doing too much will actually hurt the plants. GL m8 you will benefit way more by just using HPS for flower.
im sorry but i dont agree , i have been growing 15years and i use 3x600w hps and 2x 1,400w &1,250w mh in my bloom room, the plants love both parts of the spectrum, and actually most mh bulbs give out more lumens per watt than hps bulbs , so makin them more effecient to run , also my friend uses only mh hid's in his grow and with great success, you will also find that adding a mh hid to your flower room stops strecthing between nodes as plants change from vegg to flower stage , dont wish to slag any1 elses opinion but that is mine, and i am talking from years past , not, what i have read ....peace all =)
 

Trunk5

Well-Known Member
only reason i ask is because we bolth have the same plants cut from the same mother, he has them under a 400mh i have mine under the 400 hps. the diffrence i see is my buds seem to be bigger in size but his has more tricome growth.
 

super2200

Well-Known Member
I am running both now in my flower room due to bulb blowing while back. After reading that the MH can actually make your buds finish a week or two earlier as well I decided to hold off on replacing the hps. I am running a 1000w MH and a 600w HPS. I am getting a new hps bulb after holidays and want to switchs to 1000w hps and 600w MH instead. I dont have enough grows under my belt to see any differences but know using both cant hurt instead of changing all together
 

speedyseedz

Well-Known Member
I am running both now in my flower room due to bulb blowing while back. After reading that the MH can actually make your buds finish a week or two earlier as well I decided to hold off on replacing the hps. I am running a 1000w MH and a 600w HPS. I am getting a new hps bulb after holidays and want to switchs to 1000w hps and 600w MH instead. I dont have enough grows under my belt to see any differences but know using both cant hurt instead of changing all together

I use both in my flowering room to get the best of both worlds,

using both is definitely a positive
 

mame

Well-Known Member
Just get one of those dual hoods and put a 600w mh and 600 hps..

I watched a grow vid where a guy used three of those growing 27 3-4' tall AK clones looked like a pretty sick setup!
 

FuZZyBUDz

Well-Known Member
yea thats completely wrong. they give out less,

1000 w HPS 140,000 lummens
1000 w MH 110,000 lummens
 

bloomfields

Active Member
yea thats completely wrong. they give out less,

1000 w HPS 140,000 lummens
1000 w MH 110,000 lummens
i did use the word effecient , mh bulbs use less wattage, and we are talkin about using 2 together , with th mh being lower wattage , read up my friend:)
 

Huh??

Well-Known Member
i did use the word effecient , mh bulbs use less wattage, and we are talkin about using 2 together , with th mh being lower wattage , read up my friend:)
?
A 1000W light is a 1000W light,no matter what type it is it uses 1000W.
If you are running a 400W MH and a 600W HPS of course the MH doesn't use as many watts but that doesn't make it more efficient.
HPS gets more lumens per watt than MH which makes it more efficient.
Hope this helps,peace
 

speedyseedz

Well-Known Member
?
A 1000W light is a 1000W light,no matter what type it is it uses 1000W.
If you are running a 400W MH and a 600W HPS of course the MH doesn't use as many watts but that doesn't make it more efficient.
HPS gets more lumens per watt than MH which makes it more efficient.
Hope this helps,peace
yes but a hps puts all those watts into a bad colour spectrum with lots of light being wasted that the plant can not use, so although it is putting out more lumens per watt, not all of those lumens are actually usable.

When you look at a cmh bulb having a cri of 92 and a hps gives 20 its clear to see that a 600w hps isn't as near efficient as you first believed.
 

fatman7574

New Member
Just use 7500K halides and get the best of both lights. Halides swing to far to the left and HPS swing to far to the right. Have any of you HPS advocates looked at plant response curve charts to even see what spectri um of lights plants prefer. I thought not.

Halides provided better quality buds, better plant health and vigor as well as more resitance to insects. HPS grow often appear of to provide a higher yield but that is seldom the case. They simply aree longer stemmed with broader spaced internodes so infact they are the airy buds. If HPS growers and poor results with haildes it is simply because they bought cheap halides with the wrong K range. Nearly always HPS buds are lower potency and of lower quality and have many more insect problems as well as being more prone to nutrient deficiency problems, they have weaker stems and in general have low calcium problems.

Even this simple site's charts show that HPS is only good at providing ample lighting output in about 1/3 of the range required by pot plants. A 7500K halide is an almost perfect fit in the chart versus HPS or the cheap halide used in the example. However even the cheap halide provides good light across the full range from 400 nm to 700 nm as required for best health and growth. A halide only provides exceptional lighting in a short range of 550 nm to 650 nm amking it a good "suuplemental' lighting source at most. A halide does not work as well at any stage except an approximate two week range of budding, so it therefore if used through out the grow provides a poor quality vegative plant for budding. Therefore it is worse for use during any stage but budding. Even then it should supplement the healthy lighting not replace it. IMHO

http://www.foothillhydroponics.com/brochure/colorhid.htm
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
yes but a hps puts all those watts into a bad colour spectrum with lots of light being wasted that the plant can not use, so although it is putting out more lumens per watt, not all of those lumens are actually usable.

When you look at a cmh bulb having a cri of 92 and a hps gives 20 its clear to see that a 600w hps isn't as near efficient as you first believed.
CRI is meaningless for growing. Like lumens, it is a measurement of how people see light and so is weighted heavily in the green. LEDs have an even poorer CRI than HPS and they are even more efficient, giving only the spectrum the plant needs and not wasting energy in the 500-600nm range.
Chlorophyll b absorbs most light around 450nm in the HPS range and chlorophyll a absorbs about 650nm where MH is favorable.
 

fatman7574

New Member
CRI is meaningless for growing. Like lumens, it is a measurement of how people see light and so is weighted heavily in the green. LEDs have an even poorer CRI than HPS and they are even more efficient, giving only the spectrum the plant needs and not wasting energy in the 500-600nm range.
Chlorophyll b absorbs most light around 450nm in the HPS range and chlorophyll a absorbs about 650nm where MH is favorable.
I have no idea wht yiu are g bring Lumens into the conversation oftther than my bringing up th a 7500The charts K halide bulb. I was off on that anyway as it is the Iwaki 6500K that provides the better lighting. While yed s it does waste some light by providing more than need proportionally in the 500 to 550 range, overall it provides lighting fitting the response cure better than the other halides or the HPS. The response curve chart reflects the needs rfor amonyts of lightneeded in the different wave lengths by plants. The response curve chart reference a plants positive response in those wavelengths. It references how plants responds to lights in specific ranges required for growth. The halide shown even shows the halide dips in the small area where the response curve dips. Saying light output is a waste in that rae is ludicrous as it is a small dip in that area is ludicrous as it is not a drop to zero. Most LED systems are almost totally lacking in out put in that area. ie deficient. I have no idea what you are even trying to say in your last sentence as HPS puts out very little light in the 450 nm range so saying it absorbs most is a bit off as it should absorb more and be begging for more. HPS is deficient between 400 and 550 nm period. I have no idea why your talking lumens or CRI. The charts clearly show that halide in general covers the needs of plants over the full response curve better than the HPS. HPS provides a bit more light in the 550 to 650 nm range than the ahlide but is deficient in comaparison to the halide from 400 to 550 nm.

While yes if LED's were developed that supplied enough intensity the would be good plant lights that is not yet the case. Unless they are used for short grows like fast SOG grows from clones they really do not have much value. Even then it takes very expensive high output LED's to even provide enough lighting for SOG's, yet alone something like 18" plants. Forget about 24" or more.

I'll stick with mixed halide and HPS or primarily halide with HPS supplementation.
 

speedyseedz

Well-Known Member
CRI is meaningless for growing. Like lumens, it is a measurement of how people see light and so is weighted heavily in the green. LEDs have an even poorer CRI than HPS and they are even more efficient, giving only the spectrum the plant needs and not wasting energy in the 500-600nm range.
Chlorophyll b absorbs most light around 450nm in the HPS range and chlorophyll a absorbs about 650nm where MH is favorable.
wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grow_light

A grow light is an electric lamp designed to promote plant growth by emitting an electromagnetic spectrum appropriate for photosynthesis. The emitted light spectrum is similar to that from the sun, allowing indoor growth with outdoor conditions. Natural daylight has a high color temperature (approx. 6000 K) and appears bluish. Through the use of the color rendering index, it is possible to compare how much the lamp matches the natural color of regular sunlight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_rendering_index

The color rendering index (CRI) (sometimes called color rendition index), is a quantitative measure of the ability of a light source to reproduce the colors of various objects faithfully in comparison with an ideal or natural light source. Light sources with a high CRI are desirable in color-critical applications such as photography and cinematography.
 

Huh??

Well-Known Member
Just use 7500K halides and get the best of both lights. Halides swing to far to the left and HPS swing to far to the right. Have any of you HPS advocates looked at plant response curve charts to even see what spectri um of lights plants prefer. I thought not.

Halides provided better quality buds, better plant health and vigor as well as more resitance to insects. HPS grow often appear of to provide a higher yield but that is seldom the case. They simply aree longer stemmed with broader spaced internodes so infact they are the airy buds. If HPS growers and poor results with haildes it is simply because they bought cheap halides with the wrong K range. Nearly always HPS buds are lower potency and of lower quality and have many more insect problems as well as being more prone to nutrient deficiency problems, they have weaker stems and in general have low calcium problems.

Even this simple site's charts show that HPS is only good at providing ample lighting output in about 1/3 of the range required by pot plants. A 7500K halide is an almost perfect fit in the chart versus HPS or the cheap halide used in the example. However even the cheap halide provides good light across the full range from 400 nm to 700 nm as required for best health and growth. A halide only provides exceptional lighting in a short range of 550 nm to 650 nm amking it a good "suuplemental' lighting source at most. A halide does not work as well at any stage except an approximate two week range of budding, so it therefore if used through out the grow provides a poor quality vegative plant for budding. Therefore it is worse for use during any stage but budding. Even then it should supplement the healthy lighting not replace it. IMHO

http://www.foothillhydroponics.com/brochure/colorhid.htm
I find this interesting as I have NEVER heard of MH being superior to HPS during flowering.
If this were true then I'm sure it would be well known by now.
Even in that link that you posted right above one of the charts it says that HPS promotes heavy flowering.
No disrespect,just never heard of this.
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grow_light

A grow light is an electric lamp designed to promote plant growth by emitting an electromagnetic spectrum appropriate for photosynthesis. The emitted light spectrum is similar to that from the sun, allowing indoor growth with outdoor conditions. Natural daylight has a high color temperature (approx. 6000 K) and appears bluish. Through the use of the color rendering index, it is possible to compare how much the lamp matches the natural color of regular sunlight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_rendering_index

The color rendering index (CRI) (sometimes called color rendition index), is a quantitative measure of the ability of a light source to reproduce the colors of various objects faithfully in comparison with an ideal or natural light source. Light sources with a high CRI are desirable in color-critical applications such as photography and cinematography.
What's your point? As the link says, it is a measurement o the ability to reproduce the color of the sun. Just like lumens, this measurement is meaningless for growing since plants do not care what objects look like to our eyes. Photography and cinematography have very little to do with growing.

Fatman, you can claim deficiency yet so many people grow successfully with HPS. MH will provide the blue necessary for chlorophyll b, which is why the combination works best. MH puts out too much in the 5-600nm, wasting a lot of power that is just going to be reflected by the green plants. And yes, I switched the two peaks, you are correct that the HPS puts out a lot of energy in the 650nm and very little in the 450nm.
You seem to be eyeballing the curve and claiming MH the winner. Sorry, it doesn't work like that. There are meaningful measurements such as PAR and PPFD.

BTW, if you want to question why I brought up CRI, look at the post that I was responding to. I wasn't responding to you now was I?
 
Top