No fillibuster for Repukes.Talks move forward

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TheBlazehero

Active Member
Illegal Smile said:
Iraq may not have been handled well but it was the right thing to do and it has been a tremendous success. If you don't believe that you should read "The Pentagon's New Map," and other books by Thomas PM Barnett who, by the way, is a democrat and was an Obama supporter.
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I just looked that book up. The United States should be nation-building and moral police? How about we move away from interventionist policies like our country's founding fathers warned us against. Stop interfering with other sovereign nations!!! Imagine if China came and tried to install their government over here. It's a two sided coin.

Thomas Barnett is a dangerous throwback to the Cold War era. His ideas are reminiscent of foreign policy from Orwell's 1984, not that of the United States of America. Read some Thomas Jefferson instead.
 
R

redivider

Well-Known Member
CrackerJax said:
I'll just blanket answer all of the spin u've learned from the media and hypocritical politicians.
The war in Iraq was predicated by the first one, desert storm. In that peace agreement, many conditions were created to keep Saddam in check and from retaliation upon the Kurds in the north. No fly zones for the Iraqi air force were set up. This was not a U.N. war. We are bound by no resolution prohibiting us from defending ourselves. I'm not talking about 9/11. There was many instances of Saddam breaking the peace and firing at our pilots. That right there set up a legal incursion. that was years ago. There is no expiration on the violations.

Regardless, Saddam was a victim of his own hubris and bad bad timing. Saddam Hussein allowed the world to believe he had weapons of mass destruction to deter rival Iran and did not think the United States would stage a major invasion, according to an FBI interrogator who questioned the Iraqi leader after his capture.

This was a terrible mistake and he admitted as much before he was hung by the neck until dead.

So it wasn't one sided at all. Clinton had the right to take care of Saddam, but he chose not to.
As for Congress not being able to give the President the nod to go to war ... nonsense. The US constitution clearly spells out that our country will have no outside force dictating our foreign policy (think U.N.).

In the end, the U.N. can go pound sand.

What did we gain? That's an easy one. We freed 55 million ppl. which is no small thing. We gathered Al Queda into one central location and soundly defeated them, actually humiliation is a word which comes to mind. That war ENDED Al Quedas influence over the Middle East. Top leaders were either killed or captured.

Even Osama Bin laden called Iraq the Central Front. We won, he lost. Instead of Osama riding through the streets of the Middle east causing trouble, he is holed up in some caves. Either way, his power has been greatly diminished.

We also took the fight to Al Queda, and by keeping them busy abroad, our shores have been safe form attack (so far).

Some might say we had a hair trigger with Iraq. That may be so. I can live with that. With crazy GB in office, which country was going to stand up and attack us again at home? Answer: NO ONE. Crazy George will attack us right back with a big footprint. That's not a bad thing. You don't see anyone attacking Moscow do you? Bejing? Because that would be a sure suicide for the attacking forces.

Projecting weakness (Clinton) emboldened the terrorists. We are projecting that weakness all over again. It is noticed, it will be acted upon down the road.

The Iraq war was legal. The Iraq war was moral. The Iraq war was a victory.
Crazy George did us all a huge favor and history will be very very kind to him. At least when it comes to foreign policy. After the dust settles, he will gradually ascend to near the top of the historically great presidents. When duty called, he answered. When the US was attacked, he responded. Al Queda was concentrated, humiliated and defeated. When the going got tough, and the insipid politicians in Washington DOVE for cover and made every excuse possible for denying their initial commitment, which is quite GUTLESS, did GB quit? He ignored the polls (as he should have), and doubled down after careful consult with the top military brass. That's true leadership. GB had some bad faults and domestically, he dropped the ball, no doubt (along with Congress of course).

Saddam knew in the end he did it to himself. He miscalculated in Kuwait, and he miscalculated in boasting he had WMD's. He ran out of luck. So be it.
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actually the Iraq war was based on LIES. the precedent for starting the Iraq war was that Sadam had weapons of mass destruction, and that he planned to sell them to terrorists, or attack it's neighbors. the entire premise was wrong from the get-go. that alone made the war ILLEGAL. History will be very kind to Bush?? maybe in Texas, not in the rest of the world.....

and just so you know, the REAL version of events states:

that Al-Qaeda and the most coveted man in the U.S. effectively avoided complete destruction of it's operations. the war has created 40,000 new martyrs for these wacko's to worship and take inspiration from. instead of hurting Al-Qaeda, the war in iraq has created more SEETHING hatred for the west in the middle east. Al-Qaeda is rebuilding in the Tribal region in Pakistan, they are alive and kicking, and they have already began rebuilding and recruiting efforts. war on Al-Qaeda = FAIL.

not a breath has been said about SAUDI ARABIA, the most conservative and intolerant muslim society on earth, the real front for terrorism lies here, not afganistan, not iraq, not palestine.

The Iraqui people do NOT want the United States in their land, and will drive them out, one suicide bomb at a time.

the U.S. is learning the HARD way that AFGANISTAN is property of AFGANS. no one else is going in there to take over, even though i don't know who'd want to...


that's the reality CJ.... it's a hard pill to swallow... i know....
 
I

Illegal Smile

Guest
TheBlazehero said:
I just looked that book up. The United States should be nation-building and moral police? How about we move away from interventionist policies like our country's founding fathers warned us against. Stop interfering with other sovereign nations!!! Imagine if China came and tried to install their government over here. It's a two sided coin.

Thomas Barnett is a dangerous throwback to the Cold War era. His ideas are reminiscent of foreign policy from Orwell's 1984, not that of the United States of America. Read some Thomas Jefferson instead.
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You "looked the book up." Maybe you should have looked for the Cliff Notes. You haven't read anything of Barnett's but you are ready to draw conclusions. :rolleyes:
 
I

Illegal Smile

Guest
redivider said:
actually the Iraq war was based on LIES. the precedent for starting the Iraq war was that Sadam had weapons of mass destruction, and that he planned to sell them to terrorists, or attack it's neighbors. the entire premise was wrong from the get-go. that alone made the war ILLEGAL. History will be very kind to Bush?? maybe in Texas, not in the rest of the world.....

and just so you know, the REAL version of events states:

that Al-Qaeda and the most coveted man in the U.S. effectively avoided complete destruction of it's operations. the war has created 40,000 new martyrs for these wacko's to worship and take inspiration from. instead of hurting Al-Qaeda, the war in iraq has created more SEETHING hatred for the west in the middle east. Al-Qaeda is rebuilding in the Tribal region in Pakistan, they are alive and kicking, and they have already began rebuilding and recruiting efforts. war on Al-Qaeda = FAIL.

not a breath has been said about SAUDI ARABIA, the most conservative and intolerant muslim society on earth, the real front for terrorism lies here, not afganistan, not iraq, not palestine.

The Iraqui people do NOT want the United States in their land, and will drive them out, one suicide bomb at a time.

the U.S. is learning the HARD way that AFGANISTAN is property of AFGANS. no one else is going in there to take over, even though i don't know who'd want to...


that's the reality CJ.... it's a hard pill to swallow... i know....
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So how soon do you think your Obama will be pulling out of Iraq or Afghanistan? You really don't get it do you? :)
 
A

AkPapaGanja

Member
redivider said:
actually the Iraq war was based on LIES. the precedent for starting the Iraq war was that Sadam had weapons of mass destruction, and that he planned to sell them to terrorists, or attack it's neighbors. the entire premise was wrong from the get-go. that alone made the war ILLEGAL. History will be very kind to Bush?? maybe in Texas, not in the rest of the world.....

and just so you know, the REAL version of events states:

that Al-Qaeda and the most coveted man in the U.S. effectively avoided complete destruction of it's operations. the war has created 40,000 new martyrs for these wacko's to worship and take inspiration from. instead of hurting Al-Qaeda, the war in iraq has created more SEETHING hatred for the west in the middle east. Al-Qaeda is rebuilding in the Tribal region in Pakistan, they are alive and kicking, and they have already began rebuilding and recruiting efforts. war on Al-Qaeda = FAIL.

not a breath has been said about SAUDI ARABIA, the most conservative and intolerant muslim society on earth, the real front for terrorism lies here, not afganistan, not iraq, not palestine.

The Iraqui people do NOT want the United States in their land, and will drive them out, one suicide bomb at a time.

the U.S. is learning the HARD way that AFGANISTAN is property of AFGANS. no one else is going in there to take over, even though i don't know who'd want to...


that's the reality CJ.... it's a hard pill to swallow... i know....
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In younger days I read a book called "An Alternate Reality." Great book. Medicine Man probably knows it.
A lie is not a lie if you really believe it-George Costanza. Truth is so elusive here in the cannabis fog.
Here is My truth. Many ,many nations and world leaders thought Saddam had WMDs. We found evidence and apparently Saddam was surprised to find he had no real nuclear weapon near completion. I guess somebody lied to him, too. Bush as president will be remembered by those that come behind as perhaps the Last President of the United States as we know it. Oba-Mao is taking that "Fundamentally changing America" promise to SEIU seriously.
Saudi Arabia, while strict and fundamental (there's that word again) and Muslim doesn't have to my knowledge terrorist training camps. OK don't count the Madrasas in that.:wall:
But they are not sending out homicide bombers actively that I know of. Iraq? I thinks they still want us for awhile. Afghanistan and Pakistan pose real threats to the security of the entire Middle East, and having some presence in the area may not be a bad thing. Oba-Mao needs to strap on a set of ovaries and end the frigging Afghan mess. Send some boys over and turn them loose. Untie their hands and let them fight. Paki's don't like it? Afghani's don't like it? Do the dirty work yourself then and we will gladly go home. Let us find these jihadi dirtbags give them a depleted uranium enema and we will catch the next flight back to the world. Start chilling the beer:bigjoint:
Who wants that wasteland. Not me, bro. Just slap them assholes down, and we can all have a good nights sleep.
No matter what happens it will take a generation for the current crop of zombies that are churned out in the madrasas and mosques to blow themselves up or get to old to die for Allah. Then maybe, the hate will subside and this Islamic threat will likewise recede.

Yeah, and maybe a space rock will fall on my head, too:lol::bigjoint:
It's just the weed talking Joe, don't paid it no mind.
 
T

tical916

Well-Known Member
AkPapaGanja said:
In younger days I read a book called "An Alternate Reality." Great book. Medicine Man probably knows it.
A lie is not a lie if you really believe it-George Costanza. Truth is so elusive here in the cannabis fog.
Here is My truth. Many ,many nations and world leaders thought Saddam had WMDs. We found evidence and apparently Saddam was surprised to find he had no real nuclear weapon near completion. I guess somebody lied to him, too. Bush as president will be remembered by those that come behind as perhaps the Last President of the United States as we know it. Oba-Mao is taking that "Fundamentally changing America" promise to SEIU seriously.
Saudi Arabia, while strict and fundamental (there's that word again) and Muslim doesn't have to my knowledge terrorist training camps. OK don't count the Madrasas in that.:wall:
But they are not sending out homicide bombers actively that I know of. Iraq? I thinks they still want us for awhile. Afghanistan and Pakistan pose real threats to the security of the entire Middle East, and having some presence in the area may not be a bad thing. Oba-Mao needs to strap on a set of ovaries and end the frigging Afghan mess. Send some boys over and turn them loose. Untie their hands and let them fight. Paki's don't like it? Afghani's don't like it? Do the dirty work yourself then and we will gladly go home. Let us find these jihadi dirtbags give them a depleted uranium enema and we will catch the next flight back to the world. Start chilling the beer:bigjoint:
Who wants that wasteland. Not me, bro. Just slap them assholes down, and we can all have a good nights sleep.
No matter what happens it will take a generation for the current crop of zombies that are churned out in the madrasas and mosques to blow themselves up or get to old to die for Allah. Then maybe, the hate will subside and this Islamic threat will likewise recede.

Yeah, and maybe a space rock will fall on my head, too:lol::bigjoint:
It's just the weed talking Joe, don't paid it no mind.
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The Bush/Cheney govt knew Iraq did not have WMDS and still pushed that as agenda to enter into Iraq..

As a military army we need to completely leave the middle east alone to their own problems. And use a special force group to remove any terrorists.. There's no reason to send a whole army over. Most of the time they end up just sitting around or babysitting the locals.
 
Jack*Herrer420

Jack*Herrer420

Well-Known Member
If they let us fight like America used to fight, this problem would have been solved long ago. We are just acting as a police, waiting to die. If we had the same mentality as we did going in to ww2, the terrorists would be dead, and the ones who did survive would think twice before messing with us again.
 
SmokeyMcChokey

SmokeyMcChokey

Well-Known Member
medicineman said:
The key words in the above are: "in your own country", I believe that means an atonomous leader of His own country. Uhh, we shouldn't have been involved at all. It was the Neo-Cons and Bush/Cheney that started that war for the contractors, the weapons manufacturers, and big oil. The same old shit, kids dying to make old men wealthy. And you say it was a success. That must be a joke, or else you are discombobulated (Fucking nuts).
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i completely agree with you about why this FAKE war was started. it wasnt done for our protection it was done to bolster oil relations with iraq among other things. all im saying is that from my high horse POV we should have sent a seal team along with the top dogs from other nations and assassinated Sadam and the heirs to his regime. And it should have been done it 1990 at the latest so i will concede to that medicine man.
also i neer said Iraq qas a sucess. I dont think we should have our hand in the middle east at all. That would have prevented most of the animosity from the region to begin with...
 
Jack*Herrer420

Jack*Herrer420

Well-Known Member
londonfog said:
You said "if"....you don't think they have any ???
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Where are they, and why haven't they attacked us since? These people aren't hiding anything, and they want us dead. I don't care what ethnicity/religion somebody is, if they wish to kill Americans, and act on those wishes, I say lets get them. Why would you think I would support somebody like that? If you're a terrorist, you're a terrorist, and should be dealt with.
 
londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Jack*Herrer420 said:
Where are they, and why haven't they attacked us since? These people aren't hiding anything, and they want us dead. I don't care what ethnicity/religion somebody is, if they wish to kill Americans, and act on those wishes, I say lets get them. Why would you think I would support somebody like that? If you're a terrorist, you're a terrorist, and should be dealt with.
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agreed...but I think Cheney was a terrorist
 
londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Jack*Herrer420 said:
That's just an ignorant statement. I don't agree with bush or obama, but I wouldn't call them terrorists. I call them dumbasses.
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not ignorant at all...How could you out a CIA op..come on...dude Cheney was a bad guy..didn't give a phuck about America only Cheney..what 5 deferments...that guy gets no respect guy none...You defend him all you want but Cheney bad guy...didn't say Bush..he was just a puppet..and a dumbass
 
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