Legal warrantless search and seizure.

[what... huh?]

So, I have this business, and in the outstairs, I am all business... Meaning, I don't look like my friends typically.

So I am on site, and a lawyer (client) and a cop are BSing about weed smokers, and John Q says "what about him?" Nodding toward me. Without blinking, I say "What... Drugs? Uh... YEAH... Why... You want to buy some?" Because I'm a fucking comedian. Everyone laughs, because as it turns out I'm a funny comedian. Next thing you know, I am chatting away with John Q Law while I am waiting for some scans to finish, and we are now talking about drugs and technology.

I am in my element here, and because of the site and company I keep, cop puts me in "friend" slot... So I start fishing for information on what level of tech they have out here with regards to FIR etc. And he says the guard has some toys, but they are more legal probs than they are worth. He says "we are much more primative around here" and asks me if I heard about a grow op that got busted a while back. I of course had, and of course said no, and he runs down the details.

So after taking too long to tell the story, he gets to the part where they suspected, but they had shit. "So I called so and so, who is a game warden..." And gets this shit eating grin. I look lost, and he says "they don't need warrants"

What the fucking fuck?!?

Stupid me, I think this is the dumbest cop on the planet, and after a little protest, let him continue. Says the game warden goes to the door, and says, I am from such and such, and it is my understanding you boys went fishing at (the place to fish), and you took more than your limit. They said no, he explained his right to check, proceeded inside, under protest, and looked in their fridge (drugs everywhere). He then let himself into the aluminum dungeon, looked around, thanked the boys, appologized and left.

Within an hour, an anonymous tip with details of the grow, got a warrant, and bam. "Us 1, bad guys 0" and laughs real loud.

I am horrified. I say "wow". That stood up in court? "All the way. Totally legal". Ok so now I'm nervous, because this is obviously BS, and this feels like I am being fucked with, presumably because he wants to rattle me. So I go on a line about how awesome that is, and how if more cops were as creative with existing laws, what a great place it might be for our kids, because I am an ass kissing shill in the outstairs.

I get home and start checking, and yes. So long as you have a GW willing to invent probable cause... Totally binding.

Their power varies greatly from state to state... But be aware.


I am just in shock.

 

[NoDrama]

Good Info!!!

 

[mexiblunt]

I thought he was about to tell you about a motion/animal cam they set up in the woods? Nothing on that?

 

[what... huh?]

The laws in my state say they are empowered to ISSUE warrants.


Look at Cali.


Game warden makes $600,000 bust

"The warden said finding massive amounts of marijuana in that part of Colusa County isn't rare. He was a part of three pot-garden raids this summer and said authorities believe the pot confiscated on Monday was probably grown in the area. But he hasn't heard of a bust this big that involved marijuana processed for sale."

http://www.californiafishandgamewardens.com/index-3.html#Article1


Wikipedia? Wikipedia knows this and I don't? Am I the only one unaware?
Search with or without Warrant

The laws in many U.S. states allow game wardens to conduct certain types of searches with or without search warrants. The law in Louisiana for instance states in part "...any commissioned wildlife agent may visit, inspect, and examine, with or without [a] search warrant, records, any cold storage plant, warehouse, boat, store, car, conveyance, automobile or other vehicle, airplane or other aircraft, basket or other receptacle, or any place of deposit for wild birds, wild quadrupeds, fish or other aquatic life or any parts thereof whenever there is probable cause to believe that a violation has occurred. Commissioned wildlife agents are authorized to visit or inspect at frequent intervals without the need of search warrants, records, cold storage plants, bait stands, warehouses, public restaurants, public and private markets, stores, and places where wild birds, game quadrupeds, fish, or other aquatic life or any parts therof may be kept and offered for sale, for the purpose of ascertaining whether any laws or regulations under the jurisdiction of the department have been violated...."[4] The laws in other states may grant more or less search and seizure authority. These exceptions granted to game wardens are still considered to fall within the constitutional limits of search and seizure as outlined in the U.S. Constitution.




WTF?


Has this never been challenged?

 

[what... huh?]

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/enforcement/career/index.aspx

"Wardens have Statewide jurisdiction and although their primary funtion is to enforce Fish and Game code, they may be called upon to enforce any of California's laws."

"Wardens are required to carry and use firearms; they usually work alone and on weekends and holidays; and often work during the night. Wardens patrol on foot, on horseback, by plane, boats, and in a variety of vehicles. They investigate reports of violations, collect and preserve evidence, write reports, and testify in court."


I'm gonna go look at the ACLU... which is something I thought I would never say.

 

[what... huh?]

WV

34. Examine, without a warrant as provided by law, any vehicle, creel, land or water conveyance, fish box, cooler, game bag or any other place where evidence of a crime may be hidden or transported whenever there is reason to believe that a violation of state law has been committed.


I am going to research every state... but they are all reading the same.

FL No warrant, check

TX? TEXAS? LEO can just roll up on your property and search it without a warrant.

NC?

Wildlife Officer Who Killed Hunter Won't Face Prosecution

"Minton initially encountered Larry Dean Helton, Coffey's son-in-law, in a tree stand at one location of Coffey's property. According to statements from Minton, he then proceeded down the mountain on foot to a second tree stand where Coffey was hunting.

Minton said he identified himself as a game warden, but had difficulty getting Coffey's attention. Eventually, Coffey stood up and demanded Minton leave his property.

The officer said Coffey continued to disobey commands, causing Minton to radio for assistance to other officers who were several miles away. Before they arrived, Coffey came down from the tree stand with his gun in his hand, despite Minton's request for him to leave the weapon in the tree stand.

According to Minton, Coffey advanced toward the officer with his weapon in a "low ready" position and pointed it directly at the officer. Minton retreated up the hill, with Coffey following.

When Minton thought Coffey was going to shoot, he drew his commission-issued weapon and fired one round, hitting the hunter in the chest. Minton then radioed for help and attempted CPR on Coffey."


Huh?

 

[Rob Roy]

So, I have this business, and in the outstairs, I am all business... Meaning, I don't look like my friends typically.

So I am on site, and a lawyer (client) and a cop are BSing about weed smokers, and John Q says "what about him?" Nodding toward me. Without blinking, I say "What... Drugs? Uh... YEAH... Why... You want to buy some?" Because I'm a fucking comedian. Everyone laughs, because as it turns out I'm a funny comedian. Next thing you know, I am chatting away with John Q Law while I am waiting for some scans to finish, and we are now talking about drugs and technology.

I am in my element here, and because of the site and company I keep, cop puts me in "friend" slot... So I start fishing for information on what level of tech they have out here with regards to FIR etc. And he says the guard has some toys, but they are more legal probs than they are worth. He says "we are much more primative around here" and asks me if I heard about a grow op that got busted a while back. I of course had, and of course said no, and he runs down the details.

So after taking too long to tell the story, he gets to the part where they suspected, but they had shit. "So I called so and so, who is a game warden..." And gets this shit eating grin. I look lost, and he says "they don't need warrants"

What the fucking fuck?!?

Stupid me, I think this is the dumbest cop on the planet, and after a little protest, let him continue. Says the game warden goes to the door, and says, I am from such and such, and it is my understanding you boys went fishing at (the place to fish), and you took more than your limit. They said no, he explained his right to check, proceeded inside, under protest, and looked in their fridge (drugs everywhere). He then let himself into the aluminum dungeon, looked around, thanked the boys, appologized and left.

Within an hour, an anonymous tip with details of the grow, got a warrant, and bam. "Us 1, bad guys 0" and laughs real loud.

I am horrified. I say "wow". That stood up in court? "All the way. Totally legal". Ok so now I'm nervous, because this is obviously BS, and this feels like I am being fucked with, presumably because he wants to rattle me. So I go on a line about how awesome that is, and how if more cops were as creative with existing laws, what a great place it might be for our kids, because I am an ass kissing shill in the outstairs.

I get home and start checking, and yes. So long as you have a GW willing to invent probable cause... Totally binding.

Their power varies greatly from state to state... But be aware.


I am just in shock.

Is someone in jail because of this now?
You could get their sentence overturned and help clean up "police corruption" too. Think about it...who might it be next time?

 

[ilkhan]

"or any other place where evidence of a crime may be hidden or transported whenever there is reason to believe that a violation of state law has been committed."

"Any other place"
WTF, That needs to be challenged.

 

[hanimmal]

Yikes, that is scary.

 

[KaleoXxX]

im not Canadian, but ive that the mounties have the same right to do a check without a warant. not sure how similar their legal system is to ours, but i know a mountie has like suprime power of the law in canada

so you took your face out of the toilette and got kim jong il naked huh?

 

[what... huh?]

Did you see that last story?

Game warden in NC just starts walking around the guys property looking for "illegal turkey baiting", owner of the land, ON his own land tells GW to leave... He refuses... 77 year old man says you don't have a warrant, get off my land or Ill shoot... officer refuses... old man, with gun, insists GW leave... GW begins retreating, then shoots 77 year old man in the chest.


No court.


Fuck Ruby Ridge... wtf is THAT?

 

[hanimmal]

I don't know if you actually read that, but the old guy was doing everything to get shot according to that link.

First baiting laws are stupid. If your already going to let someone kill an animal does it really matter if they set up some food to draw it in?

Anyway, the Game warden was doing his job and investigating a turkey baiting spot, where the guy was in a treestand. Then the guy comes down with his gun and advances on the cop at the point the guy kept following the cop that was backing away while waiting for the backup that he called in. When he thought that the guy was going to shoot him he fired one shot into his chest.

If he didn't fire then it may be a story about a 77year old man killing a game warden that was just investigating a turkey baiting area.


And they did an investigation on the warden and found that he did act responsibly.



I have no issues with people owning gun even though I don't own a gun, and won't because it won't do me any good as I don't hunt and it is not able to protect me in any life-threatening situation. If I did and a cop came into my back yard, I would know better not to point it at him and threaten his life if he didn't leave.

 

[what... huh?]

The reason we have the right to bear arms is to defend ourselves and property against unlawful trespass.

 

[mexiblunt]

In most cases the RCMP royal canadian mounted police at least around here just take care of the rural areas and the small towns without their own police forces. Don't get me wrong they have jurisdiction everywhere tho. And I'm pretty sure they need warrant to do any searches. In all my life I have never really seen the rcmp do much inside town unless the crime involved people or places outside town limits.

 

[hanimmal]

The reason we have the right to bear arms is to defend ourselves and property against unlawful trespass.

If it is not against the law for the warden to be there, then it was not a unlawful trespass. You can't shoot a law enforcement official for doing his job.

 

[what... huh?]

This is sort of the rub.

Under the 4th amendment of the US Constitution he has no legal right to be there. This authority is unchallenged by the supreme court. They simply presume the authority.

 

[Rob Roy]

If it is not against the law for the warden to be there, then it was not a unlawful trespass. You can't shoot a law enforcement official for doing his job.

Are the "laws" that allow game wardens to perform a warrantless search permitted in the constitution?

 

[hanimmal]

Are the "laws" that allow game wardens to perform a warrantless search permitted in the constitution?

That is where this whole thread started!

The laws in many U.S. states allow game wardens to conduct certain types of searches with or without search warrants. The law in Louisiana for instance states in part "...any commissioned wildlife agent may visit, inspect, and examine, with or without [a] search warrant, records, any cold storage plant, warehouse, boat, store, car, conveyance, automobile or other vehicle, airplane or other aircraft, basket or other receptacle, or any place of deposit for wild birds, wild quadrupeds, fish or other aquatic life or any parts thereof whenever there is probable cause to believe that a violation has occurred. Commissioned wildlife agents are authorized to visit or inspect at frequent intervals without the need of search warrants, records, cold storage plants, bait stands, warehouses, public restaurants, public and private markets, stores, and places where wild birds, game quadrupeds, fish, or other aquatic life or any parts therof may be kept and offered for sale, for the purpose of ascertaining whether any laws or regulations under the jurisdiction of the department have been violated...."[4] The laws in other states may grant more or less search and seizure authority. These exceptions granted to game wardens are still considered to fall within the constitutional limits of search and seizure as outlined in the U.S. Constitution.

You have to understand our laws are not just the constitution anymore. Is it right? No I don't think that this loophole is a good thing. Can I guess how it got in, sure:

I'm a game warden and walking through the woods tracking someone who poached a bunny rabbit. All of a sudden they tell me that I am on their property even though I am in the same woods. Under the letter of the law I am no longer able to arrest them because although I found the blood and fur I can't check their backpack without a warrant.

So they pass a law that says I can since in the woods how can you ever get proof that people are doing illegal poaching. And that senator gets pissed when people poach the buck that he has kept his eye on all year and gets it passed.


That being said the old dude should never have followed the warden with a gun pointed at him. He was looking for a dustup and unfortunantly he got it.

And all that needed to be said was a "Aw shucks, I will stop baiting" and he would be alive today, maybe with a small fine (most likely a warning).

 

[NoDrama]

The warden could find a meth lab at your house, but he won't arrest you for it, instead he will just tell the cops to get a warrant and come get you. Thats how they get past the constitution.

 

[hanimmal]

No question I read that too and also disagreed with it.

That is complete insanity. I was just saying that old guy was not an innocent person that was killed like Ruby Ridge.